Retirement and forum shutdown (17 Jan 2022)

Hi,

John Howell who has managed the forum for years is getting on and wishes to retire from the role of managing it.
Over the years, he has managed the forum through good days and bad days and he has always been fair.
He has managed to bring his passion for fish keeping to the forum and keep it going for so long.

I wish to thank John for his hard work in keeping the forum going.

With John wishing to "retire" from the role of managing the forum and the forum receiving very little traffic, I think we must agree that forum has come to a natural conclusion and it's time to put it to rest.

I am proposing that the forum be made read-only from March 2022 onwards and that no new users or content be created. The website is still registered for several more years, so the content will still be accessible but no new topics or replies will be allowed.

If there is interest from the ITFS or other fish keeping clubs, we may redirect traffic to them or to a Facebook group but will not actively manage it.

I'd like to thank everyone over the years who helped with forum, posted a reply, started a new topic, ask a question and helped a newbie in fish keeping. And thank you to the sponsors who helped us along the away. Hopefully it made the hobby stronger.

I'd especially like to thank John Howell and Valerie Rousseau for all of their contributions, without them the forum would have never been has successful.

Thank you
Darragh Sherwin

Zeolite/polyfilter

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Q_Comets (Declan Chambers)
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13 Jan 2013 13:31 #1 by Q_Comets (Declan Chambers)

Zeolite/polyfilter was created by Q_Comets (Declan Chambers)

Hi

Couple of questions on zeolite/poly filter

Does zeolite need to be in the filter or is just having some in the tank suitable to reduce ammonia and same question for poly filter?

Where can I get poly filter I have checked a few sponser sites and do not see it?

I am currently using interpet ammonia remover to deal with a small spike but I would also like to get the above for the first aid kit.

I fear my escape from beginners haven is still a long way off

Thx
Dec

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13 Jan 2013 13:59 #2 by newbejkjimk (damien kelly)

Replied by newbejkjimk (damien kelly) on topic Zeolite/polyfilter

hi dec,
From what i understand the zeolites needs to be in the filter and changed regularly as it removes the ammonia but when it becomes saturated with ammonia it can leach it back into the water.

Polyfilter can be placed in the tank or the filter and it does not leach the harmful chemicals it has removed back into the water however it does change colour (for ammonia i think it goes very dark brown/black) and indicates when it has been saturated and needs changing.

As for where to get polyfilter i buy mine on line so cant advise on where to buy it.

Jim

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13 Jan 2013 14:11 #3 by igmillichip (ian millichip)

Replied by igmillichip (ian millichip) on topic Zeolite/polyfilter

Firstly, not fully understanding how these products work does not place anyone in the realms of "beginner heaven".

Zeolite is a general name for a range of material....some remove ammonia, some soften water, remove this or that etc etc.

I would put them in the joint class of Molecular Sieve/Zeolites in view of their actions (ie they have more than one mode of action).

Ideally, both polyfilter or ammonia adsorbing zeolites are best placed in a filter to maximise contact with the water.

But both work when not in a filter.

The bets all-round is Polyfilter as it is easily plonked in a marine tank and will adsorb a range of compounds.

The ammonia adsorbing zeolites do not not normally plonk the stuff they have "adsorbed" back into the tank. When spent, they simply act as a normal filter media if in a filter.

But, these products can be re-generated....usually by ion exchange, so they can both be forced to expel adsorbed or catalysed products.

ian

Irish Tropical Fish Society (ITFS) Member.

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13 Jan 2013 14:38 #4 by newbejkjimk (damien kelly)

Replied by newbejkjimk (damien kelly) on topic Zeolite/polyfilter

LOL yeah what ian said

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Q_Comets (Declan Chambers)
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13 Jan 2013 16:05 #5 by Q_Comets (Declan Chambers)

Replied by Q_Comets (Declan Chambers) on topic Zeolite/polyfilter

Hi guys

Thanks for the info

@Jim could you PM me the site where you get poly filter? Thx

Does polyfilter affect bacteria growth like zeolite? I'm pretty sure I read that here at some point.

I may get nearer the exit of the haven when I can wash my filter media at the right intervals. often enough but not too often, easy right.

I do wash in tank water I think they were left too long and I washed away the live bacteria from the outside layer :crazy:

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13 Jan 2013 16:31 #6 by igmillichip (ian millichip)

Replied by igmillichip (ian millichip) on topic Zeolite/polyfilter

It would not be advisable to use Polyfilter or ammonia adsorbing zeolites when trying to get a good bacterial growth on your filters as they will remove the ammonia.

Other zeolites have no real affect on the bacteria unless the zeolites remove calcium and magnesium from the water (they being zeolites to remove calcium or magnesium only and don't affect ammonia at all).

If the zeolites or polyfilter are added later then they may remove nitrates and thus encourage removal of more ammonia.

As for washing......if you wash regularly, then you are less likely to remove the bacterial colony.

If, though, the filters build up a thick layer of bacteria then the bacteria underneath will be dead, and the aerobic bacteria you want will on top of a dead layer. Hence, when you wash you are more likely to slough off the top layer of what you want.
Therefore, if you wait a long time between washings then you need to more careful when washing and not give as thorough a wash.

I know that sounds counter-intuitive, but that is how things go in this mad world.

an

Irish Tropical Fish Society (ITFS) Member.

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Q_Comets (Declan Chambers)
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13 Jan 2013 20:15 #7 by Q_Comets (Declan Chambers)

Replied by Q_Comets (Declan Chambers) on topic Zeolite/polyfilter

On washing is weekly over doing it? I only have internals at the moment with mostly sponge filter media and bio ball type ceramic.

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13 Jan 2013 21:17 #8 by igmillichip (ian millichip)

Replied by igmillichip (ian millichip) on topic Zeolite/polyfilter

Q_Comets wrote:
On washing is weekly over doing it? I only have internals at the moment with mostly sponge filter media and bio ball type ceramic.

if done in tank water.....weekly is not too often in my opinion.
But if the filter is quite newly set-up, then I'd certainly leave it for a good few weeks initially.

If, though, you have a filter and media that have a fast enough flow rate, then you will not need as frequent washing.
The ceramic and bio-ball system you have will allow a fast flow rate to help reduce clogging.
There is, of course, as with so many things in fish-keeping, a not of balance: faster filters are not necessarily better as you need to balance the prevention of clogging and the allowance for the time the bacteria are in contact with the water.

ian

Irish Tropical Fish Society (ITFS) Member.

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Q_Comets (Declan Chambers)
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13 Jan 2013 22:36 #9 by Q_Comets (Declan Chambers)

Replied by Q_Comets (Declan Chambers) on topic Zeolite/polyfilter

Igmillichip quote
But if the filter is quite newly set-up, then I'd certainly leave it for a good few weeks initially.
End quote

Ahhhh I had this issue early on and I think this is why I thought weekly washing may be too much.

Cold water tank had filter media wash yesterday and no increase in ammonia today thankfully.

I will start doing the tropical filters every week and I got some filter start to put on the sponges for a few weeks to help rebuild the colonies.

Thx for all the assistance

Regards
Dec

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13 Jan 2013 22:50 #10 by igmillichip (ian millichip)

Replied by igmillichip (ian millichip) on topic Zeolite/polyfilter

Is this a good learning curve Q_Comets?

The hard science and facts with all of this is quite complex (to be honest, I know few chemistry graduates who understand it very well), some parts we can skim over the surface, but some parts can't avoid getting into that complexity when one asks questions.

To add some more commentary to this.....

there are 2 basic groups of bacteria that you need to consider as of utmost importance:
the ones that convert ammonia to nitrites (nitrosofying bacteria), and the ones that convert the nitrites to nitrates (nitrifying bacteria).

Of the 2 types, the ones that convert ammonia to nitrites are the toughest and quickest to grow, and they can work at a high catalytic rate.

the others, the nitrite to nitrate converters, are very sensitive to change, do not have such a high catalytic capacity (and hence need time to develop a decent colony size), and because they are so strict about being on a solid media they tend to be most prone to being the ones damaged by filter cleaning.

ian

Irish Tropical Fish Society (ITFS) Member.

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JustinK (Justin Kelly)
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13 Jan 2013 22:55 #11 by JustinK (Justin Kelly)

Replied by JustinK (Justin Kelly) on topic Zeolite/polyfilter

Thats a nice expansion relating to the "Quick notes on ammonia removal" post.

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snaphappy (john)
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13 Jan 2013 23:37 #12 by snaphappy (john)

Replied by snaphappy (john) on topic Zeolite/polyfilter

Great thread guys i learned i lot here

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Mike53 (Michael)
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14 Jan 2013 22:38 #13 by Mike53 (Michael)

Replied by Mike53 (Michael) on topic Zeolite/polyfilter

Hi Dec, maxi zoo finglas sell A4 sized sheets of poly filter and I think artane aquatics do too. I'm sure either would post on if you give them a bell.

Mike

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Q_Comets (Declan Chambers)
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14 Jan 2013 22:52 #14 by Q_Comets (Declan Chambers)

Replied by Q_Comets (Declan Chambers) on topic Zeolite/polyfilter

Thx mike

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Q_Comets (Declan Chambers)
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15 Jan 2013 19:15 #15 by Q_Comets (Declan Chambers)

Replied by Q_Comets (Declan Chambers) on topic Zeolite/polyfilter

Learn something new everyday here. Ammonia direct to nitrate, you don't see that mentioned too often.

Hopefully the fish will be spared further distress by more frequent media cleaning and the provision of a first aid kit can't hurt

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Gilly (Sean GIllivan)
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15 Jan 2013 20:50 #16 by Gilly (Sean GIllivan)

Replied by Gilly (Sean GIllivan) on topic Zeolite/polyfilter

Mike53 wrote:
Hi Dec, maxi zoo finglas sell A4 sized sheets of poly filter and I think artane aquatics do too. I'm sure either would post on if you give them a bell.

Mike

Yea there 20 euro, first box might get used up quick but after that its pretty sustainable and well worth the purchase.

Life is as dear to the mute creature as it is to a man. Just as one wants happiness and fears pain, just as one wants to live and not to die, so do other creatures.

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Retirement and forum shutdown (17 Jan 2022)

Zeolite/polyfilter