IBC progress

Hi

So as the term cycle has got a bit of bad press of late I am suggesting the term IBC (Initial Bacteria Colonisation) what do ye think

Oh and I have a question of course.

I have been feeding my new tank for week and still no ammonia, are my plants eating it or do I just need to be patient for a while longer? Someone ate all the prawns I was going to use maybe I'll pick up some more.

Rdgs
Dec

Q_Comets wrote:

Hi

So as the term cycle has got a bit of bad press of late I am suggesting the term IBC (Initial Bacteria Colonisation) what do ye think

Oh and I have a question of course.

I have been feeding my new tank for week and still no ammonia, are my plants eating it or do I just need to be patient for a while longer? Someone ate all the prawns I was going to use maybe I'll pick up some more.

Rdgs
Dec

Hi Q. It has got some bad press on here but I don't understand it myself. Call it nitrification, break in cycle or IbC, it amounts to the same thing...I believe it's much better for new fish keepers be aware of it than not be which spares new fish being dumped into an uncycled tank and exposed to lethal gill burning levels of ammonia and nitrites... B

This is the hardest part. Being patient also don't really know how to quantify the effect of plants on the process. I don't think I want to use pure ammonia so I think prawn is my only other option. Well here's to patience and hopefully a nice home for some fish.

i think those who object to the term "cycled" are really objecting to the notion that some people have that cycled means all the necessary processes are done and dusted. personally i think it's a semantic difference. it just depends on how important that difference is to you. it's like Star Wars. everyone calls it sci-fi... whereas anyone who actually knows science fiction knows that it's not reeeally sci-fi at all

I don't like the term cycled. I'm happy to stand by that.
Apart from being not correct, it does go further than just a semantic difference.
I have seen, and many here have also seen, keepers tanks described as 'cycled' (ie in taking on-board incorrect information) yet the tank has clearly collapsed because the tank is not actually "cycled" or fully mature.

I do, however, like Q_Comets IBC terminology. Not only is it correctly addressing what is going on, it also highlights the fact that the "all clear" (so often given in the "cycled" false confidence) is not as "all clear".....iesomething is just starting (even if finished).

Anyway, the Prawn and the Plants (good film title there)......the prawn may have some ammonia within it from scratch, but the majority of the ammonia from the prawn would come from ammonification action of microbes (one of the sets of microbes within the "cycle").

Normally, the microbes in ammonification get going quite rapidly. But that is still no guarantee.
The process of converting nitrates to nitrites to ammonia (through nitrate reduction, nitrite reduction and ammonification) will also occur as part of the cycle but not usually in the initial period (because the concentration of nitrites and nitrates will be low)

Some plants may uptake ammonia directly.
Some bacteria will also assimilate ammonia and use it as a nitrogen source, they are also part of the cycle but I wouldn't count on them being in a new tank. But they could be if you happen to have them on the roots of plants or in soils.

Then we have the small part of the nitrogen cycle that converts ammonia to nitrites (nitrosofication) and nitrites to nitrates (nitrification).
The nitrosofication process can establish itself quite quickly within the water column but even more quickly on a surface. Normally, we would expect a few days to get a useful amount of nitrosofication working to cope with a limited stocking level, but there are many ways that the tank can be seeded (even bacteria on the roots of plants).

Ammonia can be converted into nitrogen gas directly in the aquarium (without going through the nitrite and nitrate production phases).....but, again, this is not likely to happen in a newly set up tank as it is major part of the mature tank but unlikely to exist to any useful extent in tanks under 9 months or a year old due to the incredibly slow growth of the anaerobic bacteria involved in this.

Of course, having a zero ammonia reading could also be due to a duff test kit. There is a lot of true SciFi on test kits

ian

igmillichip wrote:

Of course, having a zero ammonia reading could also be due to a duff test kit. There is a lot of true SciFi on test kits

there's alot of "true sci-fi" on just about any chemical or biological product any company tries to sell!

hence such phrases as:

"the bubbles hold onto the dirt and grime!"
"age reducing plant sterols"
and my personal favourite... all that bollocks about a chopping board carrying more bacteria than a toilet seat. true, maybe, but i'm thinking the one that's more likely to keep you out of work for a few days if you licked it is the toilet seat!

I hasten to add, I'm not basing this on any personal experience

LemonJelly wrote:

igmillichip wrote:

Of course, having a zero ammonia reading could also be due to a duff test kit. There is a lot of true SciFi on test kits

there's alot of "true sci-fi" on just about any chemical or biological product any company tries to sell!

hence such phrases as:

"the bubbles hold onto the dirt and grime!"
"age reducing plant sterols"
and my personal favourite... all that bollocks about a chopping board carrying more bacteria than a toilet seat. true, maybe, but i'm thinking the one that's more likely to keep you out of work for a few days if you licked it is the toilet seat!

I hasten to add, I'm not basing this on any personal experience

Very good....

I do think some terms can be scientifically worthless but semantically useful. A good example would be Higgs Boson Vs God Particle

Higgs Boson?....SciFi (just a mere blip in a theoretical mathematical summation.....but someone has to justify wasting loads of money on a particle accelerator);

pro-arginine rubbed onto your hair?.....SciFi (eat the stuff in a balanced diet instead);

Health Food Shops?.....SciFi (I have yet to see a bag of spuds or fresh fruit in a health food shop);

Danone "calcium rich" rubbish?.....SciFi (if you then drive your kids to school, stuff them full of coca cola, and let them play computer games rather than getting some sun-rays).

Biochemistry produces the most cynical scientists?.......Science Fact. (I can get you proof).

Licking a toilet seat to test Myths?.........priceless. (leave that to the professionals with dodgy big 'tashes)

Hmm particle accelerator kinda makes the nerd in me drool.

Be nice if the clever people could figure out what mass is though don't you think. Not the Sunday morning type smart ar**s

My ex-wife would have been a bit of a Boson nerd (she was an inorganic chemist.....which I would call "just pretty colours".... before I conned her into going into biochemistry and medicine).

If I had money for an accelerator, I'd probably just build a Formula One race track and waste my time driving a F1 (no...not a first generation wild group of convict cichlids) around it. That would be more fun, and a lot more useful to society (says I).

By the time this thread has gone off topic and come back to the original subject, the tank should have cycled....whoops, I mean lapped.....ummmm....started the IBC, I mean.

So prawn it is then hehehehe

I dunno about "IBC". Makes me think of an irritable bowel.

So 10 days in and now seeing ammonia on test which I was quite happy about somewhat to the consternation of my OH quote "but I thought ammonia was a bad thing". I think she is slowly getting hooked, she even mentioned getting the goldies a new filter.

So as for progress I think I will switch to nitrite tests in a few days

belueberry wrote:

I dunno about "IBC". Makes me think of an irritable bowel.

Maybe that is what was up with unlucky IBS I should take him to dr herbs