Fishless cycle

Would anyone be able to tell me where I can buy 100% Pure Ammonia because I want to do a fishless cycle. I hope to have my aquarium up and running by Sunday.

Hi, I think most hardware stores have it, I was looking at it before but cant remember where

Thanks Finn...

No problem, good luck with the set up, looking forward to seeing pictures

Thanks John will do.

It wouldn't be 100% ammonia you#d be getting, it's just ammonium hydroxide (aquaeous ammonia solution) you're looking for.

100% ammonia comes in gas canisters...it is absolutely lethal stuff.....and I would not recommend getting that unless you have a nchemistry lab and breathing apparatus at hand.

ian

I don't like the sound of that. I think I'll just let it start natural is that possible without putting any fish in.

Hi murt did you concider the Organic Aqua method of starting your tank, add it to the water and add your fishh once the temp is ok.im using it in a large cat fish tank.

@Murt, is this the first time you've used the "ammonia fishless cycle" method? if so, then I'm curious as to where you have got the info from regarding it.

I hope the source does not mention using 100% ammonia.

ian

Before I joined this site I came across it on the net. I'm sure they said 100% ammonia once there isn't any consintrates or something to that effect.

murt wrote:

Before I joined this site I came across it on the net. I'm sure they said 100% ammonia once there isn't any consintrates or something to that effect.

If the site said that, then the author of that article is totally irresponsible and does not know what they are talking about [and should be told that as well]

There is simply no excuse for an author of a responsible article to get the names of chemical mixed up when recommending that people actually use the chemical.

For someone to suggest using 100% ammonia is grossly wrong as if you happened to order that from a chemical supply and they did supply you then it is more likely to kill you than anything else (unless you have a proper breathing apparatus and a fume cupboard and are a trained chemist !!!).

Phew...some people.

ian

igmillichip wrote:

murt wrote:

Before I joined this site I came across it on the net. I'm sure they said 100% ammonia once there isn't any consintrates or something to that effect.

If the site said that, then the author of that article is totally irresponsible and does not know what they are talking about [and should be told that as well]

There is simply no excuse for an author of a responsible article to get the names of chemical mixed up when recommending that people actually use the chemical.

For someone to suggest using 100% ammonia is grossly wrong as if you happened to order that from a chemical supply and they did supply you then it is more likely to kill you than anything else (unless you have a proper breathing apparatus and a fume cupboard and are a trained chemist !!!).

Phew...some people.

ian

This was not directed at the posts on this forum but at the other "expert" site.

Here's a chemistry student joke.....

2 chemistry student walk into the student bar.
The first asks for a glass of H 2 O; the says "I'll have a glass of H 2 O to " !!

This is the article here.... I reckon I got it arseways. Sorry.


www.ebay.com/gds/HOW-TO-CYCLE-A-NEW-FISH...0000011884470/g.html

Nope, you didn't get it arseways.....the article is crap and is not written by a chemist nor a biochemist nor a microbiologist (that is pretty clear from the piece that the person is not a scientist even though they claim to be).

There are lots of incorrect or pseudo-scientific bits in that piece.

Within the so called "cycling" of a tank (not that it is a cycle), any pathway speed is determined by the slowest reaction (just like in a traffic jam, the fastest is the speed of the slowest car).

Within the route of food/waste > ammonia/ammonium > nitrite/nitrous acid > nitrate/nitric acid the slowest is the pathway from nitrite to nitrate (to set-up and to run). Hence, speeding up an already fast pathway such as the food > ammonia route is a waste of time. Hence, "Important Point number 4" in the piece is not valid (that is basic biochemical principle that the author is ignoring).

ian

Thank You for excellent knowledge. I hope I didn't offend or upset anyone by saying I was going to start the cycle with ammonia. It wasn't my intention.

igmillichip wrote:

igmillichip wrote:

murt wrote:

Before I joined this site I came across it on the net. I'm sure they said 100% ammonia once there isn't any consintrates or something to that effect.

If the site said that, then the author of that article is totally irresponsible and does not know what they are talking about [and should be told that as well]

There is simply no excuse for an author of a responsible article to get the names of chemical mixed up when recommending that people actually use the chemical.

For someone to suggest using 100% ammonia is grossly wrong as if you happened to order that from a chemical supply and they did supply you then it is more likely to kill you than anything else (unless you have a proper breathing apparatus and a fume cupboard and are a trained chemist !!!).

Phew...some people.

ian

This was not directed at the posts on this forum but at the other "expert" site.

Here's a chemistry student joke.....

2 chemistry student walk into the student bar.
The first asks for a glass of H 2 O; the says "I'll have a glass of H 2 O to " !!

Not to hijack this thread, but is there a good step by step article anywhere on doing a fishless cycle? Am planning to start it on my own tank in a week or so.

Thanks...

j.

murt wrote:

Thank You for excellent knowledge. I hope I didn't offend or upset anyone by saying I was going to start the cycle with ammonia. It wasn't my intention.

Goodness Murt.....it's not you...no need to apologise here.
Starting a tank via ammonia additions can be done, but your source (that ebay link) is the one who needs a good wooden spoon across the back of their legs (me thinks that they are a liar or were one of the duff students in the college course )

Look at their last paragraph...."Double major in college with an emphasis in Zoology. Ichthyology(the study of fish) was one of my favorite classes! I've lived on an island for most of my life and maintained a number of aquariums, both fresh and salt water. Some of the fish in my aquariums, I captured in the waters off our beach house in Hawaii. I know fish! And hope this was helpful to you."

Note....claims to have studied zoology......then look at the first paragraph:

"What's the key to healthy fish?...a tank with denitrifying bacteria. You need them to "clean up" the ammonia from fish waste or your fish will surely die."

Yet the idea of adding ammonia is to get nitrosofying bacteria to grow as part of the nitrifying pathway.
If you wanted denitrifying bacteria then you would add nitrates and not ammonia!!

Then look at this sentence.....
"All add up to a cycled aquarium in about ONE WEEK! It's basic microbiology!"
Rubbish.

The author should have known that if they were a zoologist or anyone else describing the science of this.


ian

What your looking for is actually not pure Ammonia it is basically about 9% Ammonia and the rest is water...

"Jeyes Kleen Off" household Ammonia is the stuff your looking for and it can be bought online.........

When using Ammonia to cycle a tank the thing to look out for is when you shake the bottle of Ammonia it doesnt create suds...If the bottle of Ammonia creates suds when you shake it that means it contains surfactants (chemicals) which are not suited for use in a fish tank...

This is what i think the confusion is above about pure Ammonia...I think what they are actually trying to say when they refer to it as pure Ammonia is the watered down version i.e. pure Ammonia, Water and "NO" Chemicals (Surfactants)

Heres a link to cycling a tank with Ammonia..... www.badmanstropicalfish.com/forum/index.php?topic=1023.0

And heres a link to Kleen Off Ammonia......
www.amazon.co.uk/Kleenoff-Household-Ammonia-500Ml/dp/B003MPLX4W

I must also say that nowadays with all the bottled bacterial products available it is possible to cycle new tanks with fish in them from the start...

I can personally vouch for Tetra Safe Start (Not to be confused with Tetra Aquasafe) and Microbe Lifts combination of Special Blend & Nite Out II.....

Ive never used Organic Aqua but I know the fellas in Seahorse Aquariums swear by it and if they say it works it definitely works....

JohnH wrote:

murt wrote:

I don't like the sound of that. I think I'll just let it start natural is that possible without putting any fish in.

I can personally vouch for the Organic Aqua route suggested by Paul, I regularly use it when I need to set up a tank in a hurry (for example, new acquisitions or an unexpected breeding) but likewise I can see (and appreciate) that you may want to let the tank cycle conventionally.
A commonly recommended ploy for a fishless cycle is to obtain a prawn and put that into the tank. This accelerates the ammonia buildup and - putting things very simply - sets the cycle into progress.

Take off the shell and head first though - just the 'meat' of the prawn does the trick.

I have little knowledge of chemicals but do know that pure ammonia is desperate stuff, thanks to Ian for making this more understandable.

As ever, please keep the Forum informed as to your progress - whichever route you decide upon.

John

Me too. Organic aqua does the trick without complications. Significant prior threads on its efficacy and if I rem correctly John was a doubter but now a full convert

See murt this is the great thing about joining a forum, u ask a question and sit back as you get many answers mostly based on others experiences and from all thar you can filter out the info that best suits your own setup.the best way to avoid mistakes is to learn from others.