Advice setting up a first aquarium

Hello d'llo everyone,
I was given an aquarium for Christmas but have been unable to set it up as the house has been in tatters due to extension work and it's been driving me mad. I feel addicted only having read up on it. I should be able to set it up within the next week or so, so just looking for some help.
I've read up on cycling the tank and am pretty sure about what to do. It's suggested to add in some fish food if doing a fish-less cycle so I was wondering what food to get, if it matters. Depending on what fish I end up getting there is flake and pellets etc so should I just get some generic flake food to start? If so what brand should I get?
Now for the fun questions; what fish could I get and how many? I won't be getting any fish until I've cycled the tank for a good month or so so no need to worry. It's a Rekord 60, 54l, 61 x 31 x 36 cm in dimensions. I know the rule of thumb for stocking but the advice varies on every single site so I'm a bit confused. Even here the advice is 60cm of fish from one user and 10 small fish from another. Define small fish is it say 3 inches and under or what? I have an idea of what I'll eventually get, periodically adding a couple of fish at a time after the cycle is done so does this seem feasible?
2 x cory (2 inch panda/adolfo/leopard)
half dozen tetras - cardinal/neon (2 inches/1.5 inches)
black molly (4 inch)
siamese fighting fish (3 inch)
I've read about and watched corys and think they're just great so would like a couple at least. I read that they do very well as a pair and are very good tankmates for tetras also. Could I add more than two, or add a different third bottom feeder? Any suggestions? Corys are bottom dwellers but not strictly algae eaters, is this correct? So would an algae eater be a good addition if space allows?
I love the colours of the tetras. Recommended to keep them in groups of five minimum and also cardinals and tetras will school together so would say three of each be ok? Or should there be more or one over the other?
Black Molly - I used the site www.thetropicaltank.co.uk for info on size (all sizes I mention above are max sizes and taken from the site - please correct me if they're wrong) which has it as 4 inches. But I've seen elsewhere that the max size is 3 inches. Would a 4inch fish be too big for the tank?
I know it is difficult to keep a fighter fish as they can be aggressive or fin nippers but as I won't be keeping guppies etc would a fighter suit a tank of the fish I've mentioned?

Any help on this is greatly appreciated. Sorry for such a long post.

Ah sweet Jesus, I had a lengthy reply for you and lost it due to a crash...sorry. If I get time later I'll try rewrite it.....

Oh and welcome to the forum....

p.s. by the looks for things you have it all figured out..

Wow! that's a whole heap of questions.
Great to see you have done your research.
If it was me i would skip the tank cycling and add a product called safestart by Tetra. This allows you to add fish straight away.
Fill tank with dechlorinated water, set the heater to desired temp and leave overnight checking the temp. is ok.
Now you are ready for fish:ohmy:
Yes it can be that easy. just before you acclimatise and add the fish just pore the safe start near the intake of the filter.
This product realy works and can save time cycling or using bacteria from someone else's tank that could have nasties you dont want in your tank.
From your list of fish i would start with 6-8 neon tetras.
Dont add any more fish for 2 weeks.
Next i would add 2 Otto's. these are small sucker cats that will help rid your tank off algae that most tanks experience after 2 weeks for a short period.
My next choice would be the Cory's.
I would go for again 6-8 corydoras pygmaes. These are small black and silver corys that you may have to ask the shop to get in for you.
Most corys need a sand substrate but the pygmaes dont seem to forage like most corys and normal substrate leaves there barbels intact.
These would be my choice for starters. Choosing small fish for a small tank will make the tank seem larger and your fish will appreciate it.

Hi SerialMatrix,

Welcome to the forum! You'll find plenty to read here!

Well done in the planning of your tank, it's going to be a great venture.

As far as I can see, the rule of thumb for the fish ratio is 1cm of fish for each litre of water in your tank... Now, it depends on the type of fish you are going for. However, this should work for the community fish you have chosen as they don't create as much dirt as some other species.

As you will be adding fish progressively into your tank, you might want to consider a small quarantine tank in order to accomodate the new arrivals and keep them there for a couple of weeks before you add them to the 'main' tank. You can also use this tank later as a nursery.

Good luck with your project. If you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask - there surely is someone here who has an answer.

Valerie

Get a small box of flake food
It doesn’t matter about the brand of food to start off with
Put your fish in slowly you will know when you have enough in there don’t over fill
Small fish are the likes of tetra guppies; shrimp are a small fish with legs there cool
Black molly (4 inch) I really like the silver/white molly these fish breed like mad
Siamese fighter fish you can only have 1 in a tank and I have never had problems with them

&welcome to the ITFS

Donal

Thanks to all for your advice

@JohnH - why is a fishless cycle so difficult and what do you mean by 'overdosing'? Should it not be straightforward once a test kit is used and safe water levels are reached before adding in fish? I have a test kit btw

@platty252 - thanks for the great advice. I think I will give Safe Start a go. I just read up on it online but didn't see it on sites like petshoponline.ie and aquatic-village.com. I will be buying in a shop and not online but just wondering if it will be a case that some stores don't stock it? Boardwalk Petshop is probably the store I'll be going to if you know would they stock it?
About it's use - instruction is to 'add 5ml of SafeStart per 6 litres of water, at the same time as adding the fish', roughly 40ml for my tank size, which is fine. But then says 'Following filter maintenance, water quality problems, or water changes: Add 5ml of SafeStart per 6 litres of water' - I presume that means add 5ml per 6l of water you're adding as a water change and not to add 40ml again for the tank size plus the water change volume?

All - For treating the water before setting up would you go for API Stress Coat or Tetra Aquasafe. They seem much of a muchness except from their online descriptions I couldn't find anywhere that Stress Coat removes chloramine as well as chlorine whereas Aquasafe does. It may well do but I haven't seen it mentioned. If they both do Aquasafe seems to be the obvious choice since Safe Start and Aquasafe are both made by Tetra and I could 'keep it in the family'

Sorry for the silly question...or two

For your 54l aquarium you would be using 40-50ml of safe start. It comes in a 100ml bottle and will cost between €10-€20 depending on were you buy it.
Give boardwalk pets a ring. I am sure they can get it off there supplier for you.
Tetra suggest using safestart after filter maintenance to replace some of the bacteria that gets washed away when cleaning the filter media(in tank water only). This is 5ml per 6L of the water you are replacing and not the total volume of the tank.
There realy should be no need to do this once the filter is established.
Once the tank is set up i wouldent clean the filter for at least a month to allow the bacteria to colonise the media as much as possible. If there is a fine white floss in the filter to remove fine particles then this is the only part i would clean/replace once it got verry dirty.
If you have no other use for the safe start then i would add a small amount after cleaning the filter just to use it up and not having to trow it out a couple of months later.

For a water dechlorinator i would use the aqua safe or aqua plus by nutrafin. Stress coat contains Aloe vera which may be good for your hands but i dont see how it is good for your fish.

Good to see you have a test kit. Please use it. A lot of people seem to use them when they first set up the tank then they are left to gather dust. A month or 2 passes and suddenly the fish start to die or be ill. Then they reach for the test kit only to find there is a major problem that could have been nipped in the bud if they used the test kit.

There are no silly questions. The people that dont ask the questions are the silly ones.

P.S. if you are getting readings of high Amonia or any readings of Nitrite when using the safe start just add a bit more near the filter intake.

@JohnH
Yep, that's cool. I intended adding some flake to the water to start the cycle not neat ammonia but I think I'll give Safe Start a go on your and platty252's recommendation

One thing I'm wondering is transportation. I live in kells which means a long trip after buying any fish as I'll have to do this in the city centre most likely as I don't drive. Thanks to the wonders of Irish transport that means the fish I buy could be cramped in a bag for a couple of hours easy which makes stress very likely. Any thoughts?

Hey,
Great to see your starting the hobby. I was in your exact situation at Christmas time. I started my first tropical fish tank in Mid January (altho I did goldfish keeping for over 10 years so knew a little but not alot in relation to tropical). Again I did all the research you have done also and it definetly makes you more aware and better prepared. Despite all the books and research on the net, I would still ask people on the forums here for there advise. They are the real experts and have seen it and done it all before. My experience of them has been second to none and again they enjoy helping out which is important as you know they are giving you advise for the best!
Anyhow I have a 86 litre tank and added some neutrafin biological supplement and added fish after about a week or so. Again key here is to get to know your local fish shop (lfs), they will be your bible so to speak going forward and will advise you on what to do. Key at this stage is to resist the temptation of adding to many fish too early despite wanting to!! I added 3 mollies at the start and left them settle in for about 2 or 3 weeks. Then I added some cardinal tetras and the following week added some neon tetras. (total tetras of 7 then). They shoal alot and look great,defo need at least 6 of them and also got a plant. Then I added 2 guppies ( 1 male and 1 female) before finally adding a bronze catfish about 3 or 4 weeks ago. Then today with some advise from the members here (big thank you), I added another 2 bronze catfish and this completes my fish tank for now but think I have enough now and its going great. Some of the stuff Ill happily hold my hand up to being new to the hobby.
Firstly when doing water changes. Buy a Siphon and take water from the bottom by the sand/gravel and this cleans the tank of some of the waste. Also when adding water make it the same temperature as the water in the tank.(fill a bucket or dish with water the night before and bring it up to temperature either by adding warm water or putting a spare heater in it).
Set a timer for the light to come on, I did this on my own back but think its probably better the fish have a routine (Maybe Im totally wrong on this one but I do it anyhow).
Finally when cleaning the filter,(once a month I do it), clean it in water taken from the tank.
And last but not least, enjoy your tank, sit down and watch it. Its great, and youd be amazed how each fish has different habbits and ways of going around! Personally Ive grown fond of my first catfish and a black mollie who for the first month shyed away in the corner but has since become very sociable! Its my new catfishes first night in the aquarium so Im keeping an eye on them and today learnt how an algae tablet works!!! So your about 2 months behind me at present so Im pretty sure you will have the same questions as I did when I started, Im sure we will be bouncing ideas off each other and the other memeber here.

Gavin

Thanks for the great advice lads.
I finally set the tank up on Saturday and have it running since. I got Safe Start this morning so, going on platty252's advice, I could get my very first fish this weekend.
I'd heard of Equipet in Ashburn which although in Meath would be even more awkward to get to for me than Dublin but I recently discovered they have another store in Navan which will hopefully be very handy.
I was in there at the weekend and thought the place looked well. The tanks seemed bare (even for a petstore) and the tropical tanks all had a very fine black substrate which I hadn't seen in my albeit limited experience in petshops. Basically has anyone been here (or even to the store in Ashburn as both stores should be as good/bad as each other) and could they advise on the quality of the tanks and fish? Thanks again for all the help

Good to see you are up and running. Almost.
Dont add the safestart untill you have fish to put in to the tank.
If you have already just top it up a bit when you do get fish. Or add a small amount of fish food each day untill you get some fish.
The bacteria in safestart need something to feed on. Normally they feed on the ammonia from fish waste.

I have never been to Equipet so i cant comment on there stock.
The substrate sounds like a black crushed glass you can get. This is fine if you dont plan to have any bottom dwelling fish. It can be a bit rough for them.

I don't want to open up a can of worms here but does SAFESTART actually contain bacteria?

I know it says on the bottle that it does but i'm sceptical? Has anyone properly researched this? Doesn't the bacteria contained in filters need oxygen, how could it survive in a bottle? I always was of the opinion that these formulas introduce small doses of Ammonia that kickstarts the cycle..... I'm stumped......

Controversial product among experts:
www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/pfk/pages/item.php?news=953

Personally I would go for some established filter media instead.

I didn't add it in yet. Hopefully can get to Navan this weekend if I hear word that Equipet are reliable for their livestock.
If so, after I add the SafeStart and acclimatise the fish when would you recommend testing the water and doing water changes? Should I also hold off feeding for the first day as I've seen that recommended a lot after adding new fish. I know this is a very general question but how much do you feed to how many fish? I'm sure the instructions will be 'as much as you can fit between your fingertips' or something similar but we all have different sized fingers and can hold different amounts Sorry, I'm being a bit facetious but you get my point.

hi, only read first question and bit and pieces after that, so don't really know full deatils of whats going on.

Otocinclus or otos would be brill for your wee tank...but saying this would wait awhile to get them... I've similiar problem with transport..45mins to nearest good fish shop.but i have my own car, so can make sure they don't freeze on me on the way home.also asked for one of those insulated boxes from the shop... very useful when its windy and bitter cold... but prob not good for public transport.back to the otos, got six last week or the week before, one died on way home, have five still in tank... but can only ever find four... don't know if it cause they're so small and i've a bigg heavily planted tank or what...if you get them take your time acclimatising them (spelling head not the best today). they're great to watch anyways.

corys are great too...I have four albino's. would say they're a great choice. always up to something.

Don't like mollys though... but that just me..
a pair of gold rams would be nice, and a bit different to mollies. alternative tetras would be lemon tetra or rummy nose tetra.

would say to spend some time looking at different shops and different types of fish before stocking up.especially when you have a small tank..fish will last for years and you might realise you wanted a different fish more. so many to choose from...so little space...

wouldn't be found of the idea of using this new liquid stuff for a quick start aquarium... might be o.k if you just add few neons for about a month.... normal cycling is a safer bet, i reckon.

Been in equipet in Navan once, do be in one in ashbourne every week for a nosey. They get varily good stock in and seem to be learning about keeping them alive. They are kept quiet well. but would say that any of the staff I've spoken to in ashbourne don't seem to know much about the fish other than what is written on the labels. I've never bought fish from them, cause I find it bit odd that they know very little... but I hear that navan is a better shop, (it also holds more varied equiptment, backgrounds etc.)

hi serialmatrix,

Water changes every week and I only do water tests if I see anything up with the fish, water etc. but it would be no harm to do a test before the fish go in and then once a wk starting off dropping down to once a month. But that does vary depending on the health of the fish etc (e.g. if fish are becomming sick)

You should give the fish enough for them to feed for about 2 mins. So put some food in and if it is gone before the 2 mins just put some more in. You will gradually figure out what is right for them. Some say that if you see the food falling then stop but IMO it is hard to tell as some of the smaller flakes can fall as soon as you put them into the tank!! This is the ule I have been following for yrs and it has never let me down.

Hope this helps

@ Peter OB. The chances are it doesn’t contain any Nitrospira bacteria. Even if they claim it dose.
Maybe it’s a chemical instead? I don’t know. I’m no scientist. In fact the only memories I have of science in school is me flooding the lab. To this day I am still flooding places. Usually my own place.
But seriously. I see were you are coming from and I agree the normal nitrifying bacteria would not stay alive in a bottle without oxygen/food and the Nitrospira need to be kept cold if stored. Even if they did manage to keep it alive in a bottle it takes something like 12-22 days for it to start colonising. So you still wouldn’t be able to add fish straight away.
Maybe there is something in it that encourages the Nitrospira to grow rapidly?

So why would I use safestart and recommend it?
After safestart had been on the shelf’s for a while I asked in a couple of lfs had they got any feed back? They all said they got nothing but good feed back from customers that used it. So I gave it a go. I set up a tank and added 6x 5-6” plecos. 2x 2” plecos and a dozen Denison barbs. This was heavily stocked and I got no Nitrite and a small amount of Ammonia. I can’t remember exactly how much Ammonia but it was a very low amount.
Last week I set up a tank and added some otto’s and some honeycomb woodcat’s. Both of which are very fussy with water quality when introduced. All are doing fine.

I have gone off the idea of using established media from another filter.
Say for example you have a tank with a pair of Oscars. Tuff as old booths and probably have a great immune system. The tank could contain nasty bacteria that aren’t bothering the Oscars . You take the media from this tank including the nasty bacteria and introduce it into a new tank. You put in the new fish that are weakened and stressed from been bagged in the shop and transported home placed in an environment that is alien to them and chances are the nasty bacteria will take advantage of this. Resulting in sick fish.
Most aquarist’s will deal with these problems when they arise but for someone setting up their first tank I think it’s best to make it as painless as possible so they don’t give up like a lot of people do when they have a run of bad luck starting off.

@ nonie. It would be better to test every week. A lot can happen in a week regarding water quality.
You could be at work some day not knowing the electricity was off at home for 8 hours and most of the filter bacteria have died resulting in the tank starting to cycle again. You test a month later when the cycle is complete and the fish have been suffering like hell.
The ph could crash. How would you know?
A fish could die without you noticing resulting in High Ammonia and possibly Nitrite.
Test kits should be used weekly at least. If you only use them every month you are wasting your money buying them. Once they are opened they are only good for something like six months. So you only get six tests before you bin them and buy more.
I dont mean any offence nonie but do you see why i would suggest testing on a regular basis.

@ serialmatrix. Feeding is best done little and ofter. Or 1-2 times a day a verry small amount. Most fish need a lot less food than you may think.
You are right not to feed the first day. Chances are the last thing on the fishes mind is food. More like where the hell am i? 2 weeks earlier i was swimming along a nice stream.....
Also leave the lights of when you introduce fish. It's less stressful for them.
Test every couple of days to start with. This will give you a better understanding of what is happening in you tank. After that i would test weekly before a water change.

Man my fingers are tired after that. Time for a beer:)

Darren.

Hope the beer was good
Thanks again everyone for the help.
Another spanner question though...I noticed today that there is some condensation on the tubing of the light. You're not supposed to submerge it obviously so can the condensation do any damage?

Can you get these in any petshop and what would the price range be? Are they sized specific to tank sizes or is it more a case of 'a plastic sheet that clips onto the tank'?

Well I'm up and running...
I bought 5 neon tetras on Saturday and they seem to be doing well. I spent some time watching them in the shop and all appeared very lively and no visible signs of sickness. I added them Saturday and left off feeding until Sunday evening also leaving the light off. After feeding one seemed bloated and was swimming at an angle. I looked for info online and the most likely seemed that he took in some air while feeding on the flakes at the surface. Yesterday evening when I got home he seemed much better.
@JohnH - now that I'm using the light the condensation on the inside of the hood seems far better so I'll keep an eye on it to see if a condensation tray is needed.
Two questions - they all seem to 'play' with one another but the three larger in general seem to spar and be a tad more aggressive at times. I noticed when I turned the light off yesterday that the two smaller ones (who already seem to have their sleeping quarters picked out) settled but the other three didn't and one in particular went from fish to fish and chased them. Is this behaviour ok? Side note - the way they all have their area of the tank already is so cute. The smallest stays close to the gravel and always at the same spot of the sunken ship I have in the tank. Another stays in a spot between the ship and a rock. One who seems to love his own reflections stays facing the glass over by the filter and one stays within in the ship itself.
Question 2 - how should a fish be moved? I ask as I was a bit put off by how the person in the shop bagged the fish. Logic tells me that you would put the net in slowly and move gently through the water almost trying to get the fish to swim naturally into it rather than ramming it over them like a sack over someone's head. I was with my girlfriend at the time and neither of us with any experience both looked at one another as the person in the shop thrashed the net back and forth. What was worse was after she had three in the bag she said oh I don't think he looks too healthy at which point I was a little worried. So she put her hand in and took him out and placed him on top of the tank beside us. It wasn't moving at all. When she was done she scooped the seemingly dead fish back into the tank where he immediately swam off. So I presume he was in shock having been brained with a net Either way I found her manner very strange. Another shop assistant had asked me if I wanted fish and I said I was just looking for a minute before getting them. He seems to be the one around the aquariums more and I've seen him dealing with people there a few times so in future I think I'll be asking him.
As I said though all fish seem very lively and were fine after I acclimatised them. It's great watching them so far and has me dying to get more. First feeding time was great to watch and it was hilarious seeing them having to chase the flakes as they got shot to the far end of the tank after coming into the jet of water from the pump right as they were about to bite.
Dad's birthday was Sunday and what did I get him? A 112 litre Trixie Aqua Pro tank lol. He seemed interested when I got mine and said to my mam that I thought he'd like one and she said it's always been something he's meant to get but never got round to it. Now he's the one annoying us all saying he wants to set the tank up The bug has hit our house.
Sorry for the long post

Your doing well so far. Make sure you dont overfeed them and also check water parameters once a week if possible. The tetra's are a great fish to watch.They are interesting and of course they do like to shoal.You should ideally have at least six of them as they will shoal together. Neons and cardinals are good and look similar. Dont worry about the bloated belly's on the fish, mine always have bloated belly's after feeding (and its not because they are overfed),they do take in some air but also its cos they take a flake thats rather big and will attempt to force it down the hatch if you like! Crush the flake foods finely and you will find this less of a problem. Also the chasing around is just playfulness, nothing too serious I would imagine. Yes at night they do go to the bottom and stake out there own spots altho again this isnt necessarily a tetra thing to do,it seems its just individual fish doing it.(Some of mine do it also). Id recommend you get a few bronze catfish also, trust me you will absolutely love them!

Ye Equipet in Navan will be my LFS hopefully as they have a good selection including bronze and albino corys. I think the pandas are really nice so might ask them to order them in if possible. Just watching them foraging away in the shop for a few minutes was cool so I'd say they'd be great additions to the tank in a few weeks time. I also planned on adding about 3 more neons/cardinals too. Chose five neons to start out of caution

Your doing fine, Id be slow to add a Siamise Fighter, I think they prefer to be kept in a tank which is more peaceful and on their own to an extend. Also if you are getting Mollies,then they will most probably nip at the SFF. Do shop around for different fish, dont feel like you have to return to the house with a fish when you go to your LFS. Id defo recommend Bronze cats, I think they are fab fish to have. So natural in the community environment and nothing fazes them. Altho they go missing for hours sometimes!(hiding in places!).

I was thinking of leaving out the molly. Would the SFF be ok then? Plan would then be the tetras, some corys and maybe ottos, the SFF and one more fish perhaps? Instead of a molly?

Hi,

I'm only a beginner myself, but I bought some Otto's myself a few months ago and they're great little fish and I've never seen the slightest sign of algae in my tank ever since.

Another fish I bought recently and love is Rams, beautiful little fish and quite peaceful. I don't think either of the above should bother your SFF in the least.

Well a week in and a fish has died.
Strange thing is I can't see what caused it. When I bought the five neon tetras two were visibly smaller than the rest. All were very active and were eating all week. I noticed the day before it died that it was still very small looking whereas the other one had pretty much grown to the size of the others (is this even possible in a week?). Other than that it seemed fine. It ate that day, was active as the rest, I couldn't see any white spot, fin rot or anything like that. When I woke up it was dead. But again I couldn't see anything wrong with it.
I had done my first water change the day before so thought maybe this caused it. But also thought if the water was the problem then the rest would be effected too. But all were fine and seemed actually more active than ever. Tested the water and ammonia, nitrite and nitrates were fine with a PH of 7.5.
Is it possible that the fish was a 'runt' for want of a better word? He did eat but I could see he didn't eat as much as the rest so maybe he was just too weak. He would visibly stop going for the food when others moved around him but he was definitely eating so I'm pretty sure you can rule out him starving since I saw him eat the day before.
In work now so won't be able to check on them til about 8pm this evening. Other than watching them closely in the evenings is there anything else I can do? Any obvious ideas as to what happened? Thanks