Ph Levels - A Newbie Needs advice

Hi all

Im am new to the art of fish keeping, a little bit about what i have,

60ltr tank
Internal filter
Heater @25 - 26 C
gravel subtrate
air pump with air stone

In process of fishless cyle, will be a week running on sunday 19/10/2008. Added as per instructions water purifier in regard to chlorine and Product called \"Cycle\" to kick start nitrogen process.

Have a test kit, and could not wait to use it so ran the tests, everything came up blank as u would imagine apart from the ph which recorder @ 8.0. Tested my tap water which gave reading of 7.0 Netrual. Will be adding fish on sunday, 8 in total
Cant be to sure of names, here goes

1 Pleco
1 Siamese fighting fish
2 Tiger Barbs
1 Angel Fish
2 Bala Shark
1 Clown \"something\" ( I think)

Is the ph level too high, can i reduce it with ph down or use some sort of buffering method? or is it the process of a new setup?

Plan to use something like safe start to help with the intial ammonia spike. Is there anything i am leaving out ?

Have bog wood for the pleco, which i have boiled numerous time which is @ home soaking now. Is it a good idea to ad this yet ?

A lot of questions i know. I knew nothing about fish keeping as of last sunday, but it seems to have consumed me in way where i am constantly reading and researching with the likes of you guys. Thanks for taking the time to read this and await your reply

Regards
Newly Addicted Aquarist.

Posted this already incorrectly i think into the introduce yourself forum, my apoligies to moderators for taking up space.

Welcome along to the forum and Im sure you are going to enjoy the art of keeping fish.......and maybe not enjoy some of its more testing times!! lol

Anyhow here goes, I would hold off on adding the fish at present. One week really isnt enough time for the tank to fully cycle,Ive also used cycle product and admit it is a good product that does work,however I would advise to hold off abit longer on the adding of the fish. If there was an ammonia spike while the fish are in the tank,then Im afraid you are going to lose them to it.

Secondly the type of fish you are adding are not appropriate for this tank.

What type of pleco are you getting? Some pleco grow very large and will outgrow you tank quickly.

The tigers prefer to be kept in a group as they are know to fin nip other and from this point they will make life for the siamese figher unbearable. The Siamese figher should be in a peaceful environment.

The angel fish is also too big for your tank and will also be prone to attacks from the tiger barbs. The clown loaches will outgrow the tank also and again prefer to be kept in groups. Again some of these fish are also territorial and will want there space,which is something Im afraid you tank wont offer.
Finally as its your first outting with fish,I would encourage you to start with fish that are hardy,more durable if you like. Fish such as mollies, tetra's,guppies and maybe some corys.

I hope Im not coming across as a moaning Michael here and destroying your dream aquarium however I can assure you its much better to have a tank in harmony rather than a tank at war with one another.

Finally adding all these fish so early will place alot of strain on the tanks filter. Better to introduce one or two fish at a time. Allow the tank settle and the filter deal with it and then add some more a few weeks or a month later.

You will receive alot of advise on this forum and there are some great members here that really know their stuff,and the best thing of all is they will happily answer questions.
We have all been in your position at one stage and believe me nothing beats the excitment of adding fish and making them your own.

Gavin

Ps: There is no such thing as a stupid question in this forum, I remember asking if the bubbles would cause problems!haha!!

Oh and yes add the drift wood now I would say.The water may stain brown from it also(tannic acid),but better to add it now and find out,it may also effect water reading by lowering the PH.The tannic acid has this effect.
Gavin

If you get a small pleco then he will love the driftwood!

Hi Gavin

Thanks 4 the quick reply.
Good advice as i am learning by the second on this.
The fish list was at a glance, mainly my girlfriend telling me what she liked LOL:laugh: Really like the Pleco ( not sure of type will find out). will want to get this, heading up to lfs on sunday for a chat. Have not consulted them on type of fish just yet, But with the plec ( is it true about the myth about using full name lol) what would you recommend with this to start with?

My patience seems to be getting the better of me ! Gf thinks i am nuts looking @ an empty tank in the evenings
Regards
Keith

Patience is a virtue, not overly sure what type of pleco to get.Clown plecs perhaps or queen arabesque plec.

I have a few hong kong plecos and they are lovely and small and ideal.
A few corys and maybe one or two shrimp.
With the size of the tank I reckon you should get smaller fish such as tetra's.

Hi Kitsaul,
I would agree it is to early i would wait at very least another week. while i know it is very annoying looking at an empty tank. believe you me it more annoying watching stressed fish.

first you should wait till all have spiked ammonia first when it starts to decline you will see the nitrite start to rise and then the nitrate

at this point you can start to add fish
i always suggest that you only add one type of fish at a time
if there are problems it easier to sort out it also allows the tank to get up to speed.


with regards to choice of fish

i noted you mention clown something sorry if this is clown loach you will need at very least five and they can grow up to about a foot in length each.

Fishowner wrote:

I have a few hong kong plecos and they are lovely and small and ideal.

I think the tempture range is a little to high for most hilstream loaches but maybe a bristlenose plec would be nice

Mickey

Ive 3 hong kong plecs in 25 / 26c and all are fine for the past 3 or 4 months.
Main thing with these fish are 1. Good filter stream on the tank and 2. High oxygen content in the tank.
However these pleco's (although they are actually hillstream loaches as you point out) are hard to find in lfs anyhow,I do agree with Mickey that a bristlenose pleco may be the better option.

Gavin

Hey its only a few months since I started and you gotta be careful, better looking at an empty tank now , than when all your fish are dead. Also you gotta add the non-territorial/non-aggressive fish first. Later when you add a Siamese or Tiger Barbs, the other fish will give way to them. Only add one type at a time as well. If your doin a planted tank, add them now, and maybe some snails. At least you will have something to look at.

Ignore:dry: what the girlfriend says about fish choices, each time I went to the lsh, my wife picked \"nice looking\" fish and I made some poor choices... Always research before you buy, never impulse buy a fish, its not fair.

good advise there Puggy,dont impulse buy a fish. If you only come across it in the lfs,ask them about it and even research on the net etc... You can always ask the shop to keep it for you for a few days while you check out the fish. And if you dont want it then just tell you decided not to get it.
Remember its better to have a nice tank running a year or two later with some of the original \"Gang\" than to have a tank that changes every couple of weeks because of bad choices.

Gavin

Thanks for all your advice.
will keep ya updated on my progress.

kind regards
Keith:)

Keith, here's a pic of my hong kong pleco! If you look carefully there are two of them in the picture.

Cool Picture.

Really nice plecs, What size can they get up to?

Put 3 Tiger Barbs and 3 Green Barbs in tank on sunday.
They seem to be doing well and feeding great. There was a few scuffles but they all shoal together now. One of the green barbs seems to have come out as the boss.

Did a water test last night, As follows.( will confirm results when i get home)
Ammonia .00
nitrite .25 ppm
nitrate 4 ppm
Ph 8.2 is this too high? Added some bog wood last week with the arriving pleco in mind but i believe this can have stabilizing affect or if not to reduce ph, is this true?

Will not be adding anymore to the tank for a few weeks but would like to add a pleco, hong kong or a bristle nose, still not sure which yet.

Maybe a few more types in the weeks ahead, Any suggestions ? maybe neon tetras.

Thanks for all the advice and many thanks to Fishowner for the cool pic.

Regards
Keith:cheer:

Hi Keith,

Your pH might be a little on the high side all right.
Most community fish prefer a pH closer to 7 than 8. The bogwood might bring it down somewhat over time but for these fish you might want to consider using some Reverse Osmosis or Deionised water.

Your nitrite levels are a bit high too. Nitrite is toxic to the fish and, in a tank, should read zero. You might want to do a water change as soon as possible so that your fish don't suffer.

As far as the choice between pleco or bristlenose, it's down to your own taste. Pleco tend to grow quite big whereas bristlenose stay quite small. In a 60l tank, I'd go for a couple of bristlenose !

I hope this helps.
Valerie

The hong kong plecos only grow to about 2 inches or 3 at most.Very small and they dont swim mid water so are always hopping the side of the tank or on rocks.

So really they wont take up space in your tank that would otherwise be used by community fish.
Ive 3 of them and they are really nice little fellas.Never annoy other fish,stick to themselves and are rather cute and also colour up nicely when they settle in,great eyes also which can be funny when you see them pop up from the side of a rock!

Gavin

Why not try some livebarers. I started out with guppies, swortails and mollies and within weeks thay were breading. I thought this was fantastic to watch and each of them have their own personality. When I go to feed them one takes the food out of my hand!!

Cool, Thanks Fishowner 4 Advice.Will pop down LFS 4 a Close luck, again thanks.

Hi Nonie,

Thanks 4 the info on live bearers. The thought of looking after little fry fascinates me, but i feel i do not know alot on the matter. i.e

How often would they breed,
Breeding conditions,
Caring for fry, i.e. quarintine, seperate tank etc. etc....

Would i be taking on too much or am i over-reacting a little LOL:laugh:Sounds great but.

any advice would be great
Regards
Keith

Sorry, also

Thanks Valerie for your info and advice
Regards
Keith

No worries, I started with guppies and I never realised that they bred so much. I freaked out a bit when I started to research them as I made a newbie error and just went and bought them no homework done!!

IMO you would not be taking on too much as these are beginner fish and are very hardy.

The female had a gravid spot under her belly and as the fry get bigger so does the gravid spot. They breed once every one or two months. the amount of fry depends on the maturity of the fish - generally the older they are the more fry they produce.

When the fry are born I put them in a breeding net in the tank until they get a bit bigger (as they will be eaten by the adults) and then I put them into the tank. My tank has a PH of 7 and they seem to be triving in it, breeding every month.

Check this site out for more info www.guppies.com/index.php?option=com_con...view&id=25&Itemid=42

This is the site I used when I panicked by there is some good info here.

Hope this helps and if you need any more info dont be afraid to ask!!