Ammonia spike

Hi all, I've been treating velvet since Saturday and I think the fish are responding but last night I had an ammonia spike of at least 8.0ppm (it was very dark green). I did a 20% water change and tonight it is 4.0ppm. I'm going to do another water change in an few hours, just letting the water sit. I have been doing regular water changes and the fish look ok but am I doing something wrong, or not doing something I should be. All the other water reading are ok Ph is 7.6, Nitrite is 0ppm and Nitrate is 20ppm. I did clean the filter two weekends ago (in tank water) did I perhaps remove the beneficial bacteria. I cant' read anymore, I am read out. Can anyone advise.

What treatment are you using for the velvet?
The reason i ask is some medications can harm the beneficial bacteria. This could lead to an Ammonia spike.
I would change as much water as i could once it is the same temp. and ph.
That level of Ammonia with the high ph is very toxic to fish.
If doing large water changes is a problem buy a product like amolock or amequel to reduce the Ammonia.

Thanks platty252, this is what i've been doing so far,

Tank is (30 gal - 150lts). Filter is Fluval 4+ and heater is Jegar 100w set at 26 degrees.

I've been taking daily water reading and keeping diary on this and tank maintenance as follows:

Date pH Ammonia Nitrites Nitrates Tank Maintenance
18/02 7.6 0ppm 0 ppm 20

24/02 7.6 0.50ppm 1.00ppm 20 20ltr water change, added Aqua+, part cleaned

25/02 7.6 0.25ppm 0.25ppm 20 Added 3caps of Ammolock

26/02 7.6 0.50ppm 0.50ppm 20 Cleaned filter, 10ltr water change, added 1cap Aqua+

27/02 7.6 0.50ppm 0 ppm 10

28/02 7.6 0.25ppm 0 ppm 20 Noticed gray on fish. Got FinRot/Anti fungal
added 3caps. LFS said it was velvet and treat for 1
week every two days

02/03 6.4 1.00ppm 0 ppm 10 Used 2nd treatment of FinRot and added Ammolock
as well.

03/03 7.6 8.00ppm 1.00ppm 40 Had really high Ammonia reading (very green) did 20ltr
water change, Added 1 Cap Aqua+ and 3 caps of Ammolock

04/03 7.6 4.00ppm 0 ppm 20 Last night did another 10 ltr water change

05/03 7.6 4.00ppm 0.50 ppm 20 8am this morning still very high (still very green)

I know this is really long. and it's very toxic for the fish at the moment but I'm really trying to rectify this. I've been reading up as much as I can and looking to see how other's have resolved ammonia spiked. I have stopped feeding for the past 3 days, and there is no deaths yet!!!. I let the water stand overnight before I put it into the tank, and the tap water conditions are all ok. I'm boggled at this stage. Can you throw any lignt on the problem. Much appreciated. Gwen

hi Gwen,

Can you move the fiah into another tank until the problem is rectified? Were are you living - someone might be able to help. I am in Clonsilla so if your not too far I am willing.

What fish are you keeping - they must be quite hardy. How long have you had the tank and is it fully cycled?

Keep up the water changes and do a big one each day until the parameters are stable.

Leonie

Hi Leonie, I don't have another tank at the moment to move the fish, It was an established tank when I bought it about 6 weeks ago and the reading were all ok to start off with. The fish I have are 3 x bala's, 2 x clown loach, 2 x small angle fish, 2 x gourami 5 x neon tetra 7 x zebra danios and 1 pleco. I probable make a mistake in the begining of adding more fish too quickly, but I've really tried to rectify this by daily water changes. I had a bit of a problem with the filter and got some advise on the site under "filter question" but the ammonia is off the rictor scale at the moment. Could it be the filter??? Funny thing the fish seem to be ok nothing strange although I suspect they are very stressed. Where you in cloncilla, I'm in Ratoath myself

Gwen, if your ammonia is that high I would recommend 33% water changes (50L) per day, it’s the first line of defense.
Dose your filter have a good strong flow out of it?

LB

Cheers LB, will do that when I get in from work this evening. There is a really good flow from the filter and the water looks well airated. Will I keep up that level of water change then, I'm surprised I haven't seen any fatalities yet given the levels. (tough wood) Is the Ammolock sufficient, should I be using this every two days or am I doing more harm then good. Does the Ammolock kill off any of the benefical bacteria.

From what I have read it wont kill any good bacteria. It targets the Ammonia. Def do a water change as Limerickbandit suggests even 50% would be no harm.

when doing water changes are you leaving your water to settle overnight with de-chlorinator. As I have lost many fish by just adding the tap water straight into the tank.

I def dont have a tank big enough to help you put the fish in whilst sorting out the problem. Sorry!!

Check the filter is working ok and make sure that the sponges are not clogged up with gunge.

Hi Leonie, I would'nt expect you the do that, but thanks so much for offer anyway, I was letting the water sit for a few hours (and treated - sound advise from Mickey) b4 I added to the tank, now I'm letting it sit overnight. The filter is ok, cleaned weekend b4 last and good movement on top of water. I will do a big water change this evening and give the gravel another good going over. Other than that I'm lost for what to do. The guppy's are showing signes of the effect of the high ammonnia around the gills, so hopefully I can get it back to safer levels before more harm is done. Would that level of an ammonia spike be common???? and would you know how long it would take b4 it starts getting back to normal?

It is impossible to tell how long it will take to get back down. do a water change, test teh water and report back. Oh and try the Ammolock

Thanks Leonie, and thanks to all for your advise. Have just done a 30% water change added the Ammolock, gave the gravel a good clean, so I'll just wait and see what happens over the next few days.......

Ok, did a 30ltr water change last night (thats all the water I had prepared for 24hrs) and added 6mls of Ammolock. This morning the reading are:
pH - 7.6 (this has been steady and unchange in the past 8 weeks)
Ammonia - 4.0 (4th day dispite constant water changes)
Nitrite - 3.0 (this has shot up overnight, has been very steady between 0ppm an 0.50ppm)
Nitrate - 30 (again steady at between 20 and 40 over last 8 weeks)

The poor guppies are begining to show signs of the high ammonia with red gills. I am not treating for velvet anymore as them all seem to be ok. The water looks clear, filter is fine and tank getting plenty of airation. Temp is about 28. API Master Kit is in date. I know the Ammonia and Nitrite levels are very high and I'm going by the book and all your advise, but can anyone tell me if i'm on the right track at all, or are the water conditions getting worse!!!!.

Your water changes are too small! Don’t worry about letting the water rest for 24 hrs before you do a water change it’s a good thing to do but at the moment it’s not a priority
I think you need to change 50L of water a day for now until you see your ammonia reduce

LB

Thanks LB, will I keep adding the Ammolock as well, have been doing this every 2nd change.

I think it's pretty obvious here that your filter media's biological bacteria has been destroyed/damaged; most likely from the medication you added to your water. Can you get some seeded media from anyone local or your LFS (explain the situation to them). Another option is to see if you can borrow a complete internal filter from your LFS and add it to your aquarium.

You need to get the ammonia down quickly or you will start losing fish.

Have you tested some tap water to ensure there is no ammonia in your tap water and/or your ammonia test kit is working correctly?


Good luck.

Thanks tm2204, funny you say that about the filter, I was only reading about that possibility today, I have gone into the LPS and shown them my readings and he didn't say anything about this, he did ask was the filter working and was there a good flow from it. Another thing I only used the medication on two occasion putting 6mls into a 30gal tank so I'm not sure if that amount could do that damage.....or could it. Also pardon my ignorance but please explain seeded media, I'm sure it beneficial bacteria...right, but in what form does it come in? The test kit is new and I checked the tap water a few days ago for pH and ammonia are its fine.

Seeded media is established bacteria rich sponges that come from an established filter. The sponges will appear brown in color and will have a distinctive smell.

If you can get one and quickly get it home and swapped into your filter then this is probably your best option.

Sometimes it's not just the dose of medication you use its the type of medication itself. Some medications are not suitable to use with biological filtration media and it can be devastating to the tanks 'cycle'.

Try get that seeded media ASAP.


Good luck

tm2204, thanks, appreciate that. Did a 50% water change first thing this morning, with treated water standing overnight, and had a look inside the filter. The sponges were brown like you say, but don't recall a distinct smell at all. I didn't touch them, just closed it back up. I took another water reading this evening and while all the other readings are perfect the ammonia is still at 4. So I think the filter is the problem. I'll go to the LPS tomorrow and see can I get hold of some seeded media like you suggest. Thanks again.

Well good news, the water is finally starting to stabalise (hope i'm not speaking too early)
today is was:
pH - 7.6
ammonia 0.50 (who's a happy camper)
nitrite - 0
nitrate - 40

Thats given me a lift to continue, thanks to all for support and advise

Great news but keep up with the tests & water changes until you get that ammonia down to 0.0ppm. Even 0.5ppm can be a killer but it's a lot better than some of the readings you have had lately.

Good luck

That is great news. Do keep the water changes up and keep us posted on the progess

Yesterday and today readings are:

pH 7.6
Ammonia 0ppm
Nitrite 0ppm
Nitrate 40ppm

What a learning curve over the past 8 to 9 weeks. The water is really clear, had no fish loss, and they all seem to be doing well. I am taking my first night off from water changes tonight. Will keep up the testing and revert if I see any change. At least I'm getting a bit more relaxed and starting to enjoy it more.s
You don't half get hooked. Thanks for comments tm2204 and leonie

Well done.

To recover from those readings with no loss of fish is a good achievement.

One thing I noticed from your posts is that you leave your water overnight before doing your water change even after treating it with a water conditioner. There is no real need to do this as most conditioners instantly dechlorify the water and break the chlorimine bond. Most also neutralize toxic metals.

In an emergency, and your Ammonia readings were emergencies , just treat the water and get it swapped in immediately.

cheers tm2204, ya I was leaving it overnight, I was covering everything. The ammonia was so dark green, it was at least 8.0ppm for two days and 4.00ppm for a further few days, how all the fish survived I'll never know. I hope i'm out of the woods, at least if it ever happens again I'll have a bit more experience. Hopefully it won't.

A happy ending well done

LB

Well done. What a learning curve, now it is time to sit back and enjoy!!