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Retirement and forum shutdown (17 Jan 2022)

Hi,

John Howell who has managed the forum for years is getting on and wishes to retire from the role of managing it.
Over the years, he has managed the forum through good days and bad days and he has always been fair.
He has managed to bring his passion for fish keeping to the forum and keep it going for so long.

I wish to thank John for his hard work in keeping the forum going.

With John wishing to "retire" from the role of managing the forum and the forum receiving very little traffic, I think we must agree that forum has come to a natural conclusion and it's time to put it to rest.

I am proposing that the forum be made read-only from March 2022 onwards and that no new users or content be created. The website is still registered for several more years, so the content will still be accessible but no new topics or replies will be allowed.

If there is interest from the ITFS or other fish keeping clubs, we may redirect traffic to them or to a Facebook group but will not actively manage it.

I'd like to thank everyone over the years who helped with forum, posted a reply, started a new topic, ask a question and helped a newbie in fish keeping. And thank you to the sponsors who helped us along the away. Hopefully it made the hobby stronger.

I'd especially like to thank John Howell and Valerie Rousseau for all of their contributions, without them the forum would have never been has successful.

Thank you
Darragh Sherwin

community tank question

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01 Oct 2009 16:51 #1 by neil0r (Neil Sisson)
My first tank is cycling at the moment but I'm hoping will soon be ready to go.

My LFS has told me that the Serpae Tetra's are a hardy fish and would be a good first addition. They advised that I get two.

Is that good advice?

If yes, am I right in saying that I can stick any other tetra fish in there with them, to create my community tank? (I know I should go slowly with lots of water tests in between new additions :-) )

I really like the idea of creating a natural eco-system as much as possible so I've got plants in there and I'd like to get something that will look after the waste and algae. I believe Cory's are good for the former so I think I'll get one or two Julii Corey's because I believe they dont get big.

The algae is still a problem for me though. I'd love to get a Zebra Neritina (nerite?) snail, because I love the orange/red colour but I cant find them for sale anywhere in Dublin.

I was also thinking of sticking in female betta's.

So given the above I would really appreciate any suggestions about what fish I could go for and what order I should put them in at...

I'd like a good colour and size mix but dont want anything eating anything else!

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01 Oct 2009 18:21 #2 by karlo (karlo kennedy)
most types of tetras are a good start fish and in about groups of 6 at a time and dont worrie and freak out if you lose some cause everyone losess fish even the best fish keepers out there have lost :) so id say go with 6 tetra to start of

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01 Oct 2009 18:34 #3 by Damian_Ireland (Damian_Ireland)
As above most common tetras are fine. One thing I would say is if you have a small tank dont buy alot of a type of fish that you wont want in the tank.

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01 Oct 2009 19:58 #4 by derek (Derek Doyle)
serpaes are indeed among the hardiest of tetras but they are notorious fin nippers. they are fine with similiar fast moving species but are lethal with slow moving or large finned species.

30 tanks specialise in african cichlids, angelfish and various catfish

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01 Oct 2009 21:28 #5 by Fishowner (Gavin fishowner)
What size tank have you got? Check the net for community type fish. Alot of people go with Mollys as a first fish for the tank,just be careful if you are getting them that you get the right mix of male and females as your tank will be over ran by fry! Sounds fun at the start but it gets annoying after a while!If your getting tetras get more than 2, anything from 5 upwards ideally I would say.
Welcome along anyhow.

Gavin

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01 Oct 2009 21:28 #6 by neil0r (Neil Sisson)
derek wrote:

serpaes are indeed among the hardiest of tetras but they are notorious fin nippers. they are fine with similiar fast moving species but are lethal with slow moving or large finned species.


Ok so if I want to put female bettas in my tank then Serpaes wouldn't be the best place to start off!

Maybe some cardinals or neons?

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01 Oct 2009 21:37 #7 by Fishowner (Gavin fishowner)
Go with neons over the cardinals if you are adding to a tank that isnt necessarily established yet. Neons are a wee bit hardier however I prefer the cardinals myself personally. Both are lovely fish though esp with the colours of them. Also in time you can add cardinals to the tank and they will happily mingle with the neons.

Gavin

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01 Oct 2009 21:48 #8 by neil0r (Neil Sisson)
Fishowner wrote:

Go with neons over the cardinals if you are adding to a tank that isnt necessarily established yet. Neons are a wee bit hardier however I prefer the cardinals myself personally. Both are lovely fish though esp with the colours of them. Also in time you can add cardinals to the tank and they will happily mingle with the neons.

Gavin


Sweet, I want both neon's and cardinals. How would Guppys and female bettas get along?

Also I need to re-scape my tank now so are the female bettas as sensitive to current in the tank?

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01 Oct 2009 22:19 #9 by PAULHARTE25 (PAUL HARTE)
hi and welcome to the forum,i have a mix of neons and cardinals,about 30 in total,they're great,cant tell them apart when they're swimming around the tank together,just a red and blue clowd,also have a lot of guppies,even though i only started with three,think i solved the fry problem today though,added three angels and the fry dissappeared:ohmy: ,also had a betta with the guppies and the tetras for a while with no problems,best of luck with the tank,get a few pics up when its up and running

paul

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02 Oct 2009 08:08 #10 by SpookyMuffin (Debbie Behan)
Female bettas can be a bit of a hit and a miss with guppies. It really depends on the personality of the betta involved.
Yes, females are generally less aggressive than males, but this isn't always the case and a lot of aggression can ve attributed to the tail-type or "breed" of betta that you're dealing with. For example, Plakat bettas are probably the most aggressive, followed by Halfmoon Plakats, then Crowntails, then Veiltails and finally Halfmoons.
Strangely enough, even though you usually only see Veiltail males in pet shops in Ireland you also only seem to see Plakat females and never Veiltail girls. I don't know if most pet shops get their bettas from the same source and they only supply veiltail males and Plakat females for some reason.
Anyway, my point is if you are buying females from a pet shop they will most likely be from the most aggressive strain of betta (Plakat) and probably aren't the best fish for mixing with male guppies.

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02 Oct 2009 08:14 #11 by SpookyMuffin (Debbie Behan)
Sorry for the double post. I'm posting from my PS3 and it has a text limit.

Anyway if you get some CTs, HMs or other less aggressive females from a breeder that would be better. I can't for the life of me remember if you were one of the people who was interested in the spawn that I have going now, but if you weren't I might have some HM females for sale in a month or two.

There's also a pet shop in Cork that does the rarer Betta tail-types, I've never been there myself and can't think of the name off the top of my head but that might be something to consider.

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02 Oct 2009 10:19 #12 by JohnH (John)
Sorry but I’m going to refer you back to Derek’s words of wisdom.
If you have plans to keep even female Bettas and fancy Guppies then you really must consider returning the Serpae Tetras (if you bought them already, that is) after your tank cycle is complete – they are prodigious attackers of slow-moving and longer-finned fishes’ fins, not to mention the fry-eating aspect! – The really are like little Piranhas!!! (I think they would be as bad, if not worse, than the ‘most feared’ of the Piranhas if they grew to the same sort of size). Shops sell them as they are hardy and cheap – but, honestly, if you think Tiger Barbs have a bad reputation they aren’t in the same league as Serpae (in my opinion).

If you did buy them already then keep them until your cycling has completed then – very gradually – increase your stock levels (part-exchange the Serpae for the first group) over a period of a few weeks to allow your filter bacteria time to adjust to the higher load from the higher stock level each time. More fish = more waste = increased Ammonia and subsequently Nitrites.

You ask about the current being a problem for slow-moving fish like the Bettas but I think that since you will be growing plants in your tank then perhaps the addition of a few strategically-placed pieces of well-treated bogwood and maybe a small cave or two should serve to make it habitable for your proposed fish.

Good luck with your project, I note that you plan to do regular water changes and testing…keep these up and the battle is, I believe, half won.

John

Location:
N. Tipp

We're just two lost souls swimming in a fish bowl - year after year.


ITFS member.



It's a long way to Tipperary.

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02 Oct 2009 10:44 #13 by scubadim (scubadim)
Replied by scubadim (scubadim) on topic Re:community tank question
Hi,
I can only agree with Derek and others about these serpae,especially if introduced in the tank first and only 2 of them:( .lovely hardy fish but how nippy are they!!!Even "peaceful"tetras can become quite aggressive if kept in unsufficient number.witnessed one single neon tetra terrorising a whole 60l tank:laugh: .
any healthy tetra and 5-6 minimum are good to start the tank population.
All the best and let us know how you get on:)
Dimitri.

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02 Oct 2009 11:24 #14 by nonie (leonie troy)
Hi Welcome to the forum. I think you are doing everything by the book so hopefully it will yield high results for you. IMO I would not but a betta into a community tank their fins and tails are too tempting to other fish and end up wrecked.

I started out with guppies and they are a great starter fish for breeding. Do get 2 females to one male as the males are randy feckers and harrass the females so more male to female ratio does not work - they only get stressed out in the tank.

Definately tetras are great esp their colours. The cardinals of late have been of poor quality so I would recommend neons. You could also go with red eye or rummy nose as they are also quite hardy and look great in a community tank.

Keep an eye on the water parameters esp Ph and ammonia when doing water changes.

Keep us informed of your progress. Best of luck.

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02 Oct 2009 13:33 #15 by neil0r (Neil Sisson)
wow, thanks everyone for the replies and advice.

I haven't bought any fish yet, so no problems with the Serpae tetras. I just wont get them and instead will get some neons. They do a buy 3 get one free in my LFS so I'll get 8.

Just going to do a few water tests tonight and make sure everything is okay on the nitrate/nitrite side of things.

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02 Oct 2009 22:30 #16 by neil0r (Neil Sisson)
Well water tests were done a few hours ago and all looks well.

Nitrites are at zero and pH has come down a bit but is still a little high at around 7.6ish. Bog wood hasnt really had a chance to work its magic yet though.

Tomorrow if my LFS agree's I'm going to pick up some neons.

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03 Oct 2009 00:47 #17 by Fishowner (Gavin fishowner)
Whats the nitrate reading at?

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03 Oct 2009 14:31 #18 by neil0r (Neil Sisson)
Fishowner wrote:

Whats the nitrate reading at?


Ever so slightly over 0 I think. Certainly less than 5, which are the two options on the colour card I have to compare off.

I picked up 9 (only asked for 6!) Neon's this morning first thing from my lfs.

They are patrolling around near the bottom having a look at their new home. The transport bag said to leave them in for an hour swimming around before turning on the light of the tank. Did that after gradually introducing aquarium water to the bag and they seem happy enough...

Will test the water again tonight for everything I can: pH, Ammonia, Nitrate, Nitrite.

I also picked up a pack of "live bacteria" for my filter from the LFS. I know nobody thinks they are much good here but the guy in the LFS said the stuff was good and I figured it couldn't do any harm.

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03 Oct 2009 16:35 #19 by Fishowner (Gavin fishowner)
Id leave the light out for 24 hours if I was you, but shouldnt make a huge difference,it just makes it a wee bit less stressful. Have you added this friendly bacteria stuff to your tank now? Im just mindful that you might end up cycling the tank again!

Also dont introduce anymore fish for another week or two,just see how those 9 neons do firsty,always add slowly rather than too many at once which can overload the filter and tank at the beginning.
Gavin

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03 Oct 2009 17:45 #20 by neil0r (Neil Sisson)
Yeah I added the bacteria to the filter as was suggested in my lfs about an hour before adding the fish to the tank.

they seem happier now than at first. They have come up off of the bottom and out of the corners where they were initially sort of hiding...now they are swimming around patrolling in a more relaxed wide spread group.

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04 Oct 2009 21:57 #21 by neil0r (Neil Sisson)
Just ran a full set of water tests and Ammonia, Nitrate and Nitrite are all at 0.

My pH is gone high (8.2) again though and the only thing I can think that's doing that are my 4 plants...the only other things in the tank are a half a terracota pot and a chunk of bogwood.

btw my tap water pH is 7.2.

Also there is a new bubbly sort of scum on the top of the water here and there...

Not sure what to do about the pH. Any ideas?

Thanks,
Neil

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06 Oct 2009 10:01 #22 by neil0r (Neil Sisson)
in case anyone has these problems in the future, the scum was just air bubbles trapped because the water was falling too far from the filter outlet so I filled the tank right up to the top with RO water, which I reasoned was approx 6 in pH.

I also used pH down and added some more bog wood, which has brought the pH of my tank back down to 7.3 approx.

Now all I need to do is get rid of my algae problem

A picture of my all bog wood, no rock tank can be seen here:

60L tank

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