Retirement and forum shutdown (17 Jan 2022)
Hi,
John Howell who has managed the forum for years is getting on and wishes to retire from the role of managing it.
Over the years, he has managed the forum through good days and bad days and he has always been fair.
He has managed to bring his passion for fish keeping to the forum and keep it going for so long.
I wish to thank John for his hard work in keeping the forum going.
With John wishing to "retire" from the role of managing the forum and the forum receiving very little traffic, I think we must agree that forum has come to a natural conclusion and it's time to put it to rest.
I am proposing that the forum be made read-only from March 2022 onwards and that no new users or content be created. The website is still registered for several more years, so the content will still be accessible but no new topics or replies will be allowed.
If there is interest from the ITFS or other fish keeping clubs, we may redirect traffic to them or to a Facebook group but will not actively manage it.
I'd like to thank everyone over the years who helped with forum, posted a reply, started a new topic, ask a question and helped a newbie in fish keeping. And thank you to the sponsors who helped us along the away. Hopefully it made the hobby stronger.
I'd especially like to thank John Howell and Valerie Rousseau for all of their contributions, without them the forum would have never been has successful.
Thank you
Darragh Sherwin
Simple Question??!!
- Frontosa (Tim kruger)
-
Topic Author
- Offline
- Premium Member
-
- Posts: 607
- Thank you received: 9
We just had a discussion and one lad asked me the simple question:What does Wild,F1,F2 mean?After explaining to him wild means wild caught,F1 means juvenile of wild parents and F2 means juvenile of F1 parents.He asked me to explain to him what the difference between a wild caught juvenile and a f1 juvenile is.So I explained to him both are born of wild parents but one in captivity and the other in the wild.So he was sorted but myself only started thinking.If you go and buy fish you pay for a wild caught adult the most money.The next in price is the wild caught juvenile,than nearly half price the F1,F2... .So i came to following result:Its worth to pay for an wild caught adult(he grew up his whole life in his natural habitat)but its not worted to pay for a juvenile wild caught realy.He could be only born in the wild and stayed there for a couple of days and than be brought into captivity so no really advantages or differences to the F1 juvenile OR?
Midlands - in the heart of Ireland.
Keeping and breeding : Frontosa Blue Zaires , Synodontis Petricola , Tropheus Red Rainbow (Kasanga) , Tropheus Moliro . Regulary fry for sale.
Community tank with P.Kribensis and different livebearers.
Please Log in to join the conversation.
- Daragh_Owens (Daragh Owens)
- Offline
- Moderator
-
- Posts: 1829
- Thank you received: 28
Also wild caught are not always the most expensive, tank bred of some species are dearer than wild caught, mainly for hard to breed species as tank bred specimens may be more likely to spawn in a tank next generation around than wild caught.
I don't think you see F2 marked on fish too often, they usually only boast about Wild caught and F1, after that F2 is just regular captive bred.
Daragh
Please Log in to join the conversation.
- Buster (Damien Byrne)
- Offline
- Junior Member
-
- Posts: 32
- Thank you received: 0
Please Log in to join the conversation.
- Posts: 1420
- Thank you received: 2
some adults will only except live food which can prove problematic
so there are many pro and cons for both
Mickey Wallace & Cath Woods
Please Log in to join the conversation.
- daryn (Darren Mc kenna)
- Offline
- Junior Member
-
- Posts: 35
- Thank you received: 0
Also what would be the situation if the mouthbrooder was holding young in her mouth when caught and releases them in captivity.
as they were bred in the wild would they be considered wild caught or f 1 's
plus in a shop your really taking their word for it that the fish are wild caught, who is to say a few unscrupulous dealers would claim f1 s as wild to make themselves money. its not like you get any certs or proof to verify that they are wild, which is a pity considering how much more expensive they are.
Im not saying it happens here in Ireland, but you can be sure it is happening somewhere.
Please Log in to join the conversation.
- Frontosa (Tim kruger)
-
Topic Author
- Offline
- Premium Member
-
- Posts: 607
- Thank you received: 9
agree with u.What do you think are the differences/advantages between of having a wild caught juvenile and a F1 juvenile.Both have wild parents,both grow up in captivity.One will later produce more valueable F1`s and the other F2`s.(in theory).Cant really see a difference between them.
Regards,Tim
Midlands - in the heart of Ireland.
Keeping and breeding : Frontosa Blue Zaires , Synodontis Petricola , Tropheus Red Rainbow (Kasanga) , Tropheus Moliro . Regulary fry for sale.
Community tank with P.Kribensis and different livebearers.
Please Log in to join the conversation.
- Frontosa (Tim kruger)
-
Topic Author
- Offline
- Premium Member
-
- Posts: 607
- Thank you received: 9
Midlands - in the heart of Ireland.
Keeping and breeding : Frontosa Blue Zaires , Synodontis Petricola , Tropheus Red Rainbow (Kasanga) , Tropheus Moliro . Regulary fry for sale.
Community tank with P.Kribensis and different livebearers.
Please Log in to join the conversation.
- Frontosa (Tim kruger)
-
Topic Author
- Offline
- Premium Member
-
- Posts: 607
- Thank you received: 9
Midlands - in the heart of Ireland.
Keeping and breeding : Frontosa Blue Zaires , Synodontis Petricola , Tropheus Red Rainbow (Kasanga) , Tropheus Moliro . Regulary fry for sale.
Community tank with P.Kribensis and different livebearers.
Please Log in to join the conversation.
- Frontosa (Tim kruger)
-
Topic Author
- Offline
- Premium Member
-
- Posts: 607
- Thank you received: 9
Also what would be the situation if the mouthbrooder was holding young in her mouth when caught and releases then in captivity.
as they were bred in the wild would they be considered wild caught or f 1 's
plus in a shop your really taking their word for it that the fish are wild caught, who is to say a few unscrupulous dealers would claim f1 s as wild to make themselves money. its not like you get any certs or proof to verify that they are wild, which is a pity considering how much more expensive they are.
Im not saying it happens here in Ireland, but you can be sure it is happening somewhere.[/quote]
Fontosas wrote:
-Interesting question about the wild female.I think they will be classed in theory as F1`s.
-You not come across this problem only in shops there are enough private breeders out there which do the same.You have to find a shop or a private breeder YOU trust.Thats the only way around it.Regards,Tim
Midlands - in the heart of Ireland.
Keeping and breeding : Frontosa Blue Zaires , Synodontis Petricola , Tropheus Red Rainbow (Kasanga) , Tropheus Moliro . Regulary fry for sale.
Community tank with P.Kribensis and different livebearers.
Please Log in to join the conversation.
- derek (Derek Doyle)
-
- Offline
- Platinum Member
-
- Posts: 1397
- Thank you received: 133
but where you can trust the source wild and f1, etc. are less inbred than unspecified fish and will usually have better colour and shape.
for reasons such as availability, catching (often in war zones) acclimatising and cleaning of parasites, wild caught are generally more expensive than tankbreds, esp rift valley cichlids. but as daragh says some species are more expensive when tank bred. examples i've come accross are cory davidsandsi, altums, and apistos but picky eaters and delicate species generally are more popular and easier to keep when tb.
the rule of thumb with tanganyikans is after six generations of sibling inbreeding the quality starts to slip and deformed fry become common. poor body shape (reduced caudal peduncle and deformed mouth can be common problems) and wrong paterns (broken or misssing bands, masks and spots). also finnage can be poor.
we can greatly improve the quality of offspring by trying to breed unrelated fish. (it is harder though)
apart from a reduction in colour strength, malawis seem less damaged by chronic inbreeding and inbred stock can be much improved and strenghtened with the introduction of occasional new blood.
anyway its a subject with a lot of questions and answers and we also have to consider the hobbys impact on wild fish stocks.
30 tanks specialise in african cichlids, angelfish and various catfish
Please Log in to join the conversation.
- 2poc (2poc)
-
- Visitor
-
the whole wild, f1, f2 thing can and is, often used to bump up prices.
but where you can trust the source wild and f1, etc. are less inbred than unspecified fish and will usually have better colour and shape.
for reasons such as availability, catching (often in war zones) acclimatising and cleaning of parasites, wild caught are generally more expensive than tankbreds, esp rift valley cichlids. but as daragh says some species are more expensive when tank bred. examples i've come accross are cory davidsandsi, altums, and apistos but picky eaters and delicate species generally are more popular and easier to keep when tb.
the rule of thumb with tanganyikans is after six generations of sibling inbreeding the quality starts to slip and deformed fry become common. poor body shape (reduced caudal peduncle and deformed mouth can be common problems) and wrong paterns (broken or misssing bands, masks and spots). also finnage can be poor.
we can greatly improve the quality of offspring by trying to breed unrelated fish. (it is harder though)
apart from a reduction in colour strength, malawis seem less damaged by chronic inbreeding and inbred stock can be much improved and strenghtened with the introduction of occasional new blood.
anyway its a subject with a lot of questions and answers and we also have to consider the hobbys impact on wild fish stocks.
Very interesting, I have seen some C Moori recently with awful twisted mouths & bent spines
Please Log in to join the conversation.
- Posts: 1420
- Thank you received: 2
i think that all wild caught fish should be chipped like aurwana which will id its origin.
at the end of the day. its like "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" when i look for fish i look to see do they meet the standard i expect at a price i am willing to pay and it pays to shop around
i will pay a fair price but not for wild caught of endangered species them i avoid.
Mickey Wallace & Cath Woods
Please Log in to join the conversation.