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Retirement and forum shutdown (17 Jan 2022)

Hi,

John Howell who has managed the forum for years is getting on and wishes to retire from the role of managing it.
Over the years, he has managed the forum through good days and bad days and he has always been fair.
He has managed to bring his passion for fish keeping to the forum and keep it going for so long.

I wish to thank John for his hard work in keeping the forum going.

With John wishing to "retire" from the role of managing the forum and the forum receiving very little traffic, I think we must agree that forum has come to a natural conclusion and it's time to put it to rest.

I am proposing that the forum be made read-only from March 2022 onwards and that no new users or content be created. The website is still registered for several more years, so the content will still be accessible but no new topics or replies will be allowed.

If there is interest from the ITFS or other fish keeping clubs, we may redirect traffic to them or to a Facebook group but will not actively manage it.

I'd like to thank everyone over the years who helped with forum, posted a reply, started a new topic, ask a question and helped a newbie in fish keeping. And thank you to the sponsors who helped us along the away. Hopefully it made the hobby stronger.

I'd especially like to thank John Howell and Valerie Rousseau for all of their contributions, without them the forum would have never been has successful.

Thank you
Darragh Sherwin

Angelfish

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03 May 2010 22:59 #1 by Xaribdis (Lorcan O' Brien)
My flat mate recently bought two Angelfish. They were smallish and completely silver. One of them had a damaged fin, so we returned it and got a slightly larger one with orange coloration on the face.

However, the original fish we left in the tank now seems to have a new growth on the end of the anal fin. It looks like a soft fungus-like white ball. I'm worried the fish is ill, but can't find anything regarding a disease with this as one of the symptoms so have no idea what to do.

Has anyone experienced anything like this or have any idea what it could be? The fish doesn't seem to be distressed, but I'm pretty sure this isn't right.

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03 May 2010 23:03 #2 by dar (darren curry)
Replied by dar (darren curry) on topic Re:Angelfish
ich?

Check out the angling section, it is fantastic

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03 May 2010 23:12 #3 by Viperbot (Jason Hughes)
Yeah, could be the start of a white spot infection. Treat with esha EXIT or similar meds. If it turns out to be fungus treat with an antifungal quickly.

Jay

Location: Finglas, North Dublin.

Life
may not be the party we hoped for, but while we
are here we might as well dance.

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03 May 2010 23:16 #4 by dar (darren curry)
Replied by dar (darren curry) on topic Re:Angelfish
jacking up the heat by a few degrees helps, correct me if im wrong

Check out the angling section, it is fantastic

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03 May 2010 23:20 #5 by Viperbot (Jason Hughes)
No, you are right. It helps by speeding up the life cycle of the parasite so when the cyst burst and they become free swimming the meds can kill them. Some meds claim to kill it through the cysts but better to be safe than sorry when it comes to whitespot I guess.

Location: Finglas, North Dublin.

Life
may not be the party we hoped for, but while we
are here we might as well dance.

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04 May 2010 07:41 #6 by mickdeja (Mick Whelan)
Replied by mickdeja (Mick Whelan) on topic Re:Angelfish
This can happen to new fish that move in to a new tank that get stressed. Happened to my 2 silver dollars as darren and viperbot said, treat with meds and turn up the heat slightly and this will hopefully do the trick. Let us know how the angel gets on.

Follow me up to Carlow

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04 May 2010 09:12 #7 by DJK (David Kinsella)
Replied by DJK (David Kinsella) on topic Re:Angelfish
As the lads have suggested I'd turn up the heat to about 27-28c. I'd recommend Protozin which treats both Whitespot & Fungus. If you treat with eSHa Exit for Whitespot and the problem then turns out to be fungus you will then have to get eSHa 2000!! This will no doubt cause you more stress than the actual fish is suffering itself.

If you cannot source Protozin, I have a bottle on hand here which you can have. I'm the one who donated the 'gunk' to help cycle your new tank if you remember.;) I think you have my details.

Also do not forget to remove your carbon sponge (if used) during treatment.

Angelfish are a hardy specimen normally and I'd be confident it will 'pull through'.

All the best

Dave

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04 May 2010 09:43 #8 by Xaribdis (Lorcan O' Brien)
Thanks for all the help everyone. I'm in work today, but my mate is off, so I'll send him on his travels. Thanks a million for that offer too, Dave. If he can't get a bottle I'll PM you later. Since last night things seem to be going downhill. Woke up this morning to find a guppie doing a remarkably accurate impersonation of a dead fish. Too accurate in fact!
Obviously I'm quite concerned about the whole tank now. I think we stocked the tank too quickly. It's only running just over a month... including the cycle. I was stocking it very slowly, but my mate got impatient and decided to dump half a rivers worth of fish in in one go! What's done is done, but I presume this could be part of the issue, yes? Particularly since I'm starting to get the first traces of ammonia since I put in the first fish. Am I correct in saying that this could cause stress and reduce the immunity of the fish? Even with repeated water changes (up to twice a day) I can't get a zero reading (it's on about 0.25ppm).
Any further advice would be very welcome.

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04 May 2010 09:59 - 04 May 2010 10:00 #9 by Viperbot (Jason Hughes)
Most likely the sudden increase in bioload has kicked off a new cycle. If possible, remove as many fish as you can. If not, stay on top of the water changes and feed sparsely. Try to get your hands on more seeded filter media if you can. Oh, and slap your mate...

Jay

Location: Finglas, North Dublin.

Life
may not be the party we hoped for, but while we
are here we might as well dance.
Last edit: 04 May 2010 10:00 by Viperbot (Jason Hughes).

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04 May 2010 10:04 #10 by JohnH (John)
Replied by JohnH (John) on topic Re:Angelfish
Increased ammonia will cause stress - absolutely.

This is why the recommendation is always to build up fish stocks in a cycled tank gradually.

Extra fish means extra food - some of which remains uneaten (however little) but food taken in means excrement coming out and a newly cycled tank has to adjust to the extra bioload gradually. The bacteria will have settled at the required level for the small amount of fish - then your pal adds a goodly amount more and that bacteria cannot cope - it needs to multiply accordingly.

Try not feeding the fish for 48 hours (it won't harm them significantly) and thereafter underfeed for another few days...gradually building up the amount and hopefully this will help improve the water quality - but keep up with the daily water changes until things settle back down. Too much food, in my opinion, is far more harmful than too little.

Keep the Forum informed as to how things progress.

John

Location:
N. Tipp

We're just two lost souls swimming in a fish bowl - year after year.


ITFS member.



It's a long way to Tipperary.

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04 May 2010 10:26 #11 by DJK (David Kinsella)
Replied by DJK (David Kinsella) on topic Re:Angelfish
Yes it will cause stress and reduce the immunity of the fish and kill them. An all too common error with beginners too eager to fully/over stock the tank.

I'm not experienced with the API product ammonia lock but it may help.

How much water are you replacing up to 2 times a day!! This sounds too much to me no matter what percentage you are replacing for what you are actually doing is removing the good bacteria which you have painfully built up with your fishless cycle. I would limit your changes to 33% weekly, adding a cycle product after the change. This will help to correct the problem.

Also keep feeding to an absolute minimum or even stop for a couple of days.

Dave

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04 May 2010 10:43 #12 by DJK (David Kinsella)
Replied by DJK (David Kinsella) on topic Re:Angelfish
Woops. Did not see the previous 2 posts until now.:(

If you need some more 'gunk' and some seeded filter media as Jay suggested, just give me a shout.

Always here.

Dave

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04 May 2010 10:43 #13 by Viperbot (Jason Hughes)
Its the bacteria in his filter and on the surfaces of his decor and substrate that he needs to worry about. If his water contains ammonia he needs to remove as much of it as possible to get those levels down. Worrying about the suspended bacteria in his water will lead to him leaving water in a system that is poisonous. Ammo lock can help but is no substitute for large water changes. By all means dose with Cycle or something similar after a change but from whats happened here I suspect the problem with ammonia will get worse if as he said, he has already begun to loose fish and regular large water changes are a must for reducing ammonia/nitrite no matter the state of his bacterial cultures. They will eventually be present in numbers that can handle the load but until then all he has is a bucket and siphon to deal with it. I would recommend a 50% waterchange at a reading of over .25ppm and no less.

Jay

Location: Finglas, North Dublin.

Life
may not be the party we hoped for, but while we
are here we might as well dance.

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04 May 2010 13:39 #14 by derek (Derek Doyle)
Replied by derek (Derek Doyle) on topic Re:Angelfish
the use of organic aqua would have prevented all of your current problems. even at this stage you could solve the problem instantly by adding organic aqua.
i absolutely believe that organic aqua used for at least the first month will save a beginner a lot of money and prevent stress and hassle for both fish and fishkeeper.
with the advent of organic the grind and hassle of new tank syndrome and cycling should be a thing of the past.

30 tanks specialise in african cichlids, angelfish and various catfish

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04 May 2010 14:49 #15 by Gavin (Gavin)
Replied by Gavin (Gavin) on topic Re:Angelfish
as above but my product would be micro lift special blend. It's the most astonishing bacteriolgical product I've ever come across. :ohmy:

dont make me come over there.

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04 May 2010 14:53 #16 by JohnH (John)
Replied by JohnH (John) on topic Re:Angelfish
God, not another magic potion? - Surely not!!!

John

Location:
N. Tipp

We're just two lost souls swimming in a fish bowl - year after year.


ITFS member.



It's a long way to Tipperary.

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04 May 2010 15:12 #17 by derek (Derek Doyle)
Replied by derek (Derek Doyle) on topic Re:Angelfish
i'm all for products that prevent disease and suffering. if this stuff is even half as good as organic its worth considering.
everytime i read a post about someone going through the torture of cycling a tank and stressed and dieing fish i get really annoyed, knowing that it is absolutely avoidable. i feel like replying in 2 inch letters "use organic aqua at least for one month".
make fishkeeping easy and stressfree and save yourself money.

30 tanks specialise in african cichlids, angelfish and various catfish

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04 May 2010 15:29 #18 by JohnH (John)
Replied by JohnH (John) on topic Re:Angelfish
This reply is from JohnH as an ordinary Forum member - not in his 'official' capacity.

We will have to agree to disagree on this.

I'll leave it at that.

John

Location:
N. Tipp

We're just two lost souls swimming in a fish bowl - year after year.


ITFS member.



It's a long way to Tipperary.

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04 May 2010 19:06 #19 by DJK (David Kinsella)
Replied by DJK (David Kinsella) on topic Re:Angelfish
Ah well, with all the 'experts' out there, the bottom line is, that the fish keeper made the most common mistake for a beginner which is very understandable. He has got some good advice from myself,
Viperbot and John H even though they conflict a bit. I just go that little bit furthur offering him all
that he needs in the practical sense.

Dave

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04 May 2010 19:20 - 04 May 2010 19:20 #20 by derek (Derek Doyle)
Replied by derek (Derek Doyle) on topic Re:Angelfish
DJK wrote:

Ah well, with all the 'experts' out there, the bottom line is, that the fish keeper made the most common mistake for a beginner which is very understandable. He has got some good advice from myself,
Viperbot and John H even though they conflict a bit. I just go that little bit furthur offering him all
that he needs in the practical sense.

Dave


which experts would that be?

30 tanks specialise in african cichlids, angelfish and various catfish
Last edit: 04 May 2010 19:20 by derek (Derek Doyle).

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07 May 2010 13:40 #21 by Xaribdis (Lorcan O' Brien)
Think my Angel was too far gone before the treatment with Protozin was begun. I lost him last night. By that stage the fungal growth was about a quarter the size of his body. I'll continue the treatment, but this really doesn't sound anything like White Spot that I've read, as his dorsal fin was also half rotted away. I know the Protozin will help deal with a wide range of illnesses, but after completing the protozin and the subsequent large water change they suggest, would I be as well to treat the tank with anything else in case the infection is 'dug in'? I'm afraid there might be a few diseases knocking around, particularly since the Guppie died earlier in the week with no signs of any fungal growth.

After the patient build-up and lack of any problems, I could really slap my mate for throwing sh*t straight into the fan! But it's his birthday, so I'll let him off and rant here instead!

Any more advice would be greatly appreciated,
Thanks,
Lorcan

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07 May 2010 14:17 #22 by derek (Derek Doyle)
Replied by derek (Derek Doyle) on topic Re:Angelfish
xarabis, i am fairly sure the problem you are having is down to new tank syndrome (tank not cycled) which is probably the cause of 80% of fish deaths in the hobby. the symptons you describe are typical, and disease and parasites take hold because the fish's immune system and slime coat is shattered by ammonia and nitrite poisoning. there are products on the market which at a low cost will solve your problems.
ring dmitri at fintastics 2145442 and he will help you sort the tank out very easily, which will allow you to get back to enjoying your fishkeeping.

30 tanks specialise in african cichlids, angelfish and various catfish

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07 May 2010 15:15 #23 by Viperbot (Jason Hughes)
Yeah it sure seems like a cycle is in full swing. Xarabis, was your last water test a few days ago? If so, test for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and your ph if possible as ammonia has varying toxicity levels depending on ph. It would help a lot if we knew the present state of your water. No doubt when you ring Fintastic, test results will be among the first things Dimitri will ask for so have them at hand ;) . Best of luck.

Jay

Location: Finglas, North Dublin.

Life
may not be the party we hoped for, but while we
are here we might as well dance.

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