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Retirement and forum shutdown (17 Jan 2022)

Hi,

John Howell who has managed the forum for years is getting on and wishes to retire from the role of managing it.
Over the years, he has managed the forum through good days and bad days and he has always been fair.
He has managed to bring his passion for fish keeping to the forum and keep it going for so long.

I wish to thank John for his hard work in keeping the forum going.

With John wishing to "retire" from the role of managing the forum and the forum receiving very little traffic, I think we must agree that forum has come to a natural conclusion and it's time to put it to rest.

I am proposing that the forum be made read-only from March 2022 onwards and that no new users or content be created. The website is still registered for several more years, so the content will still be accessible but no new topics or replies will be allowed.

If there is interest from the ITFS or other fish keeping clubs, we may redirect traffic to them or to a Facebook group but will not actively manage it.

I'd like to thank everyone over the years who helped with forum, posted a reply, started a new topic, ask a question and helped a newbie in fish keeping. And thank you to the sponsors who helped us along the away. Hopefully it made the hobby stronger.

I'd especially like to thank John Howell and Valerie Rousseau for all of their contributions, without them the forum would have never been has successful.

Thank you
Darragh Sherwin

Sand or Stones

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07 Aug 2010 16:51 #1 by barr (declan)
Sand or Stones was created by barr (declan)
Hi All

I've seen a tank recently and the floor of it was sand. It looked really well and got me thinking are there any advantages/disadvantages to a sand floor V the usual aquarium stones ?

Thanks

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07 Aug 2010 17:02 - 07 Aug 2010 17:27 #2 by dar (darren curry)
disadvantage: traps gasses and needs to be stirred, is a nightmare to keep clean (well my white is) and you lose some during water changes
advantage: some fish love it and it looks god dam great

i just gave a bag of it away (white) to a chap on here, but i'm looking to go back to gravel, wat gravel have you got we might be able to arrange a swap if you are interested

Check out the angling section, it is fantastic
Last edit: 07 Aug 2010 17:27 by dar (darren curry).

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07 Aug 2010 17:13 #3 by barr (declan)
Replied by barr (declan) on topic Re:Sand or Stones
I was thinking of the normal gold sand - would this be as difficult to keep clean?

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07 Aug 2010 17:48 #4 by fishmad1234 (Craig Coyle)
i got some just normal aquarium sand look at my pictures some post s further back my wild discus i think its a great sand looks pretty cool to

at the end of the day it becomes nite

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07 Aug 2010 17:52 #5 by Jim (Jim Lawlor)
Replied by Jim (Jim Lawlor) on topic Re:Sand or Stones
I'm just about to use sand for the first time as well - if anyone has any tips on how best to clean it before use, how to put it in/ how deep etc & how to keep it clean & free of anaerobic areas, I'd greatly appreciate it.

Thanks.

Jim.

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07 Aug 2010 17:54 #6 by Ma (mm mm)
Replied by Ma (mm mm) on topic Re:Sand or Stones
I guess it is down to what you prefer look and maintenance wise what fish are kept. Slightly more grief if you keep plecos with sand as tehir waste can be heavier than the sand, I also find gravel better at trapping waste to be vacumed up, gravel doesn't come up in a vac either. Sand nearly always looks better though in most setups and if you keep something like tetras then sand gets less dirty. Corydoras are great at burying their own waste making the sand filthy.


Once you are prepared to clean it, sand is great. I have none in my tanks though, too many plecos:)


Mark

Location D.11

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07 Aug 2010 17:57 - 07 Aug 2010 17:58 #7 by dar (darren curry)
literally just a few mm, you could hose it down in a bucket just get the flow right so the sand doesn't overflow or prehaps an old sheet as a strainer and wash it trough that and put it in by the cup full very slowly

Check out the angling section, it is fantastic
Last edit: 07 Aug 2010 17:58 by dar (darren curry).

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07 Aug 2010 18:26 #8 by Melander (Andreas Melander)
I prefer sand myself and actually don't find it to be to much hard work, although its in a small tank.

If you keep a few burrowing snails like malaysian trumpet snails or assasin snails they should stir the sand a bit.

My grif with sand would be plants being uprooted easier, but that can be fixed by placing some beach pebbles on top of the roots.

Melander

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07 Aug 2010 18:27 #9 by stretnik (stretnik)
Replied by stretnik (stretnik) on topic Re:Sand or Stones
You can have a lovely display using Sand.

Make sure it's clean to start with by swirling in a Bucket, Sand when wet and stirred will act like a Fluid itself, imagine Quicksand, same thing, Quicksand is fluid because of water beneath it. If you use your hand in Summertime, warmer water, you can clean it quite quickly, just swirl it with one hand while holding a Hose over the Bucket.

Corydoras are excellent Sand shifters and ensure a clean substrate, you can also use burrowing Snails .
From my experience and I cannot attest to others, no waste gets buried or if it does, not for long.

I have always had Corydoras and Sand for as long as I can remember, I hate Corys on anything other than sand, Manado being the closest I will accept.

Now, for putting it in your Tank, just dump it in and spread with a Ruler or straight Stick.

When you are filling the Tank with Water, put a Dinner plate that has a slight Lip on the sand, middle preferably, then put a Soup Bowl in the middle of this, when the Water is put into this, it overflows and bounces off the Dinner plate causing virtually no disturbance.

Make sure you have the correct type of Sand, ie, Ph stable unless you want it to buffer the ph of your Water.
Make sure also that the intake of your Filter is not so close to the Sand as to have it sucked up, Sand and Impellors don't mix.

Kev.

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08 Aug 2010 19:26 #10 by SSS (Sion S)
Replied by SSS (Sion S) on topic Re:Sand or Stones
I have two tanks with sand in them, i keep mbuna in both they love to do landscaping in the sand thats the main reason i use it, i do prefer the look too though. One has the usual aquarium sand, silver sand i think its called, and black sand in the other.
I find both are easier to clean than my other tank which has gravel just because whatever dirt is in there just sits mostly on top instead of seeping through it like it does with gravel.
You do get air bubbles but everytime im doing a cleanout i just stir the sand a bit with my fingers.

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08 Aug 2010 19:29 #11 by stretnik (stretnik)
Replied by stretnik (stretnik) on topic Re:Sand or Stones
Hi SSS

Think you are mixing up air buubles with what could be another Gas but this one could be a noxious one, normally you won't find Air Bubbles but stuff like Sulphur dioxide etc.

Kev

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08 Aug 2010 19:34 #12 by dar (darren curry)
i think if your seeing bubbles you're not stirring it regular enough

Check out the angling section, it is fantastic

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08 Aug 2010 20:37 #13 by barr (declan)
Replied by barr (declan) on topic Re:Sand or Stones
Can you Siphon sand like stones ?

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08 Aug 2010 20:40 - 08 Aug 2010 20:41 #14 by dar (darren curry)
well you can and should syphon it but keep it away so you only suck up waste, you will lose sand but you can always put it back in

Check out the angling section, it is fantastic
Last edit: 08 Aug 2010 20:41 by dar (darren curry).

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08 Aug 2010 20:47 #15 by barr (declan)
Replied by barr (declan) on topic Re:Sand or Stones
So the Siphoner I used on a old tank with stones could be used for sand as well ? I was afraid it would suck all the sand into the waste bucket.

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08 Aug 2010 21:10 #16 by dar (darren curry)
even if it does the just clean it and put it back in

Check out the angling section, it is fantastic

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08 Aug 2010 22:23 #17 by SSS (Sion S)
Replied by SSS (Sion S) on topic Re:Sand or Stones
Sorry yea i didnt mean air bubbles more like trapped gas, its not that i see it much at all because i keep the sand well mixed but have seen it in the past

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08 Aug 2010 22:32 - 08 Aug 2010 22:33 #18 by stretnik (stretnik)
Replied by stretnik (stretnik) on topic Re:Sand or Stones
I thought as much !, you only get Air Bubbles after you have set the Tank up, the Air trapped then is natural and eventually disappears, it's when Gas Bubbles occur that you have to watch what's going on, it is usually accompanied by cyanobacter bacteria and is usually troublesome when the Sand is too deep. That was one of the arguements in favour of under water heating Cables, it caused , supposedly, convection within the substrate making water perculate through it.

Don't use your Hands or Fingers as you can end up with fine Sand being sucked up by the Filter, a fine knitting needle or a Chopstick, something narrow but rigid will sort the bubbles out but not the reason for them being there in the first place.

Kev.
Last edit: 08 Aug 2010 22:33 by stretnik (stretnik).

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09 Aug 2010 11:15 #19 by SSS (Sion S)
Replied by SSS (Sion S) on topic Re:Sand or Stones
Yea i found out a few years back that it was related to having deep sand but i like to have the sand above 4cm or so because i have mbuna and they are constantly digging. If the sand is any thinner than that you can always see the glass. So im used to stirring the sand because i want that extra bit of sand but il try your method with the knitting needle in future, thanks.

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09 Aug 2010 11:21 #20 by stretnik (stretnik)
Replied by stretnik (stretnik) on topic Re:Sand or Stones
Here's an idea, why not try mixing a heavier Gravel as the base with the Sand, that way you'll have the depth but it'll be a 50/50 mix.

Kev.

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09 Aug 2010 11:29 #21 by SSS (Sion S)
Replied by SSS (Sion S) on topic Re:Sand or Stones
Possibly, but that would be a lot of work to do that now, maybe if i was doing a big overhauling of the tank, but im quite happy with it at the moment and it isnt causing any problems. In hindsight that would be the way to go but for the moment its ok

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09 Aug 2010 12:27 #22 by dar (darren curry)
stretnik wrote:

Here's an idea, why not try mixing a heavier Gravel as the base with the Sand, that way you'll have the depth but it'll be a 50/50 mix.


Kev would the sand fall through the gravel and create the same situation but wit gravel in it making the stiring a bit more difficult? i was actually thinking simular myself for plants to root keeping the sand on top for the loaches

Check out the angling section, it is fantastic

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09 Aug 2010 12:43 #23 by stretnik (stretnik)
Replied by stretnik (stretnik) on topic Re:Sand or Stones
If it's 50/50 there will always be a mix, never 100% sand on top nor 100% Gravel. It's what I've always done and I've always been happy with the results.

Kev.

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10 Aug 2010 19:19 #24 by barr (declan)
Replied by barr (declan) on topic Re:Sand or Stones
I went to the LFS today to enquire about getting sand, is it true it can raise PH levels ?

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10 Aug 2010 19:22 - 10 Aug 2010 20:02 #25 by stretnik (stretnik)
Replied by stretnik (stretnik) on topic Re:Sand or Stones
As far as I know any Sand that can raise Ph must be derivative of Calcium based organisms. Silica based , true Sand, cannot influence Ph either way.

Kev.

I should have added, all of the above is dependent on the Sand being free of contaminants.
Last edit: 10 Aug 2010 20:02 by stretnik (stretnik).

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10 Aug 2010 20:31 #26 by JohnH (John)
Replied by JohnH (John) on topic Re:Sand or Stones
By way of an addition to that Kev,
It's important to make sure the sand comes from inland - sand from the sea shore would contain miniscule-sized amounts of calcium in the form of finely crushed shells and therefore not be inert.

It could be possible that sand is not collected from beaches in Ireland and would therefore be not an issue.

John

Location:
N. Tipp

We're just two lost souls swimming in a fish bowl - year after year.


ITFS member.



It's a long way to Tipperary.

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12 Aug 2010 19:16 #27 by barr (declan)
Replied by barr (declan) on topic Re:Sand or Stones
The sand seems pricey enough , the best I found was €10 for 5kg's

Does this sound right ?

Anyone advise how much I'd need to cover the floor in a Trigon 190 ?

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12 Aug 2010 19:26 #28 by stretnik (stretnik)
Replied by stretnik (stretnik) on topic Re:Sand or Stones
Barr,

The Play Sand from The Early Learning Center in Mary Street is 5 euro something a Bag, two would be more than enough for you.

Kev.

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12 Aug 2010 19:34 #29 by barr (declan)
Replied by barr (declan) on topic Re:Sand or Stones
I'm in Cork so hope there’s one closer to me :)

Does it not have to be special type sand for aquariums?

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12 Aug 2010 19:39 #30 by dyco619 (steve carmody)
you can get play sand in any good diy or garden centre, its fine to use in your aquarium.

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