Retirement and forum shutdown (17 Jan 2022)
Hi,
John Howell who has managed the forum for years is getting on and wishes to retire from the role of managing it.
Over the years, he has managed the forum through good days and bad days and he has always been fair.
He has managed to bring his passion for fish keeping to the forum and keep it going for so long.
I wish to thank John for his hard work in keeping the forum going.
With John wishing to "retire" from the role of managing the forum and the forum receiving very little traffic, I think we must agree that forum has come to a natural conclusion and it's time to put it to rest.
I am proposing that the forum be made read-only from March 2022 onwards and that no new users or content be created. The website is still registered for several more years, so the content will still be accessible but no new topics or replies will be allowed.
If there is interest from the ITFS or other fish keeping clubs, we may redirect traffic to them or to a Facebook group but will not actively manage it.
I'd like to thank everyone over the years who helped with forum, posted a reply, started a new topic, ask a question and helped a newbie in fish keeping. And thank you to the sponsors who helped us along the away. Hopefully it made the hobby stronger.
I'd especially like to thank John Howell and Valerie Rousseau for all of their contributions, without them the forum would have never been has successful.
Thank you
Darragh Sherwin
Dart Frog Keeping....a Starter's Guide
- igmillichip (ian millichip)
-
Topic Author
- Offline
- Moderator
-
- Posts: 3366
- Thank you received: 536
I am not a great fan of caresheets except as an appendix to a fuller account…..so whilst this looks like a caresheet, it is intended to outline be items that need special focus.
Keeping Dart Frogs can be as hi-tech or as low-tech as is needed. Each type of system has benefits and disadvantages.
Here, I’ll describe the low-tech systems.
Temperature.
In general, and with a few exceptions for some species, a temperature between 21 and 26 Celsius is fine. It does not matter if day/night temperatures fluctuate between these values.
Temperatures above 30 Celsius will tend to kill Dart Frogs very quickly (within hours).
Exactly how to maintain temperatures in cool times is a matter of improvisation as there are many methods.
These could do very well in a front room where the temperature of the room is within the above range without additional tank heating.
If a heat source is added to the tank, then that must be a mild heat source and one with which the frogs can never come into direct contact with.
If using a reptile heat mat, then it should be mounted outside the tank and controlled by a thermostat. It should not be placed where the frogs can rest in a place where the mat comes into direct contact with the tank.
Some keepers us a water sump at the bottom of the tank with an aquarium heater…but this is a hi-tech system for the advanced tank-builder.
Humidity.
Very high (90 to 100% relative humidity)
Whilst a hi-tech system may have special humidifiers, an properly sealed tank will do the job.
But, there needs to be some ventilation.
If the housing does not naturally hold a high humidity, then a fine mist spray of lukewarm de-chlorinated water daily or several times daily will suffice.
Shallow water dishes should be added. Water should be conditioned with a high quality dechlorinator (eg Tetra Aqua Safe…..I can’t actually think of another brand in fish shops that does the same job). Ordinary tap water usually suffices.
Never add any salt (sodium chloride)
The water should be shallow enough to prevent drowning. THINK…a large dart frog can drown in very shallow water as males will sometimes attempt to drown other males by holding them down underwater.
The water dish should be cleaned daily or every 2 days.
If Bromeliads are added, then they can be exploited for their water-holding cups.
The tank should not be sodden with water as that will encourage microbial growth.
Housing.
Secure housing that can hold a high humidity yet has ample ventilation.
For adult sized breeding groups, a tank of about 24 x 24 x 18 inches would be ideally required for each breeding pair (for the medium sized frogs of about 1.5 inches length).
However, with good ventilation and adequate visual barriers, a 24x12x12 escape-proof fish tank will do.
For young or new arrivals or non-breeding, these can be housed in relatively small system. In fact, for new arrivals and young frogs, I’d recommend keeping them in a small housing for a few months to make sure that food is within an easy reach.
Ventilation can be provided by small holes or a fan installed outside the tank.
It is important to have air movement, and absolutely important to have agitation of the air near the bottom of the tank (with a plastic housing, small holes could be drilled near the bottom).
Carbon dioxide poisoning will rapidly kill Dart Frogs…..it must never be allowed to build up in the bottom layers of the housing.
Decoration/Plants
A soft substrate such as a moss/peat mix will do. Make sure that nothing has been treated with insecticides, soaps, or fertilisers.
Have several items for a pleasing look and to add territorial markers and visual barriers.
Bog-wood, cork-bark, artificial rocks etc are all ideal decorations that add function.
There are a number of suitable plants for a Dart Frog tank.
Soft-leaved bromeliads; some orchid species (Jewel Orchids and warm-growing Pleurothallids are ideal); mosses (Java Moss is great); ferns; and many plants sold as ‘aquatic plants’ (eg Cryptocoryne, Java Fern) work well.
I won’t list all suitable plants, and would encourage some experimentation with non-toxic plants.
Do not overdo the decoration for new introductions or young frogs….you need to keep a close eye on their behaviour and feeding for several months.
Food.
Dart Frogs need small living food.
Some larger species can take size 2 brown crickets, but be aware that some large adult frog species cannot take food larger than fresh-hatch micro-hatch crickets.
For that reason, I would state that hatchling (or micro-) crickets is the maximum sized cricket to feed. Experience will reveal which species can take safely take larger.
Dendrobates auratus is a large species that really needs small food.
Feed Springtails as a standard staple diet if they can be obtained.
Fruitflies (Drosophila) are an additional supplementary food.
If you can secure home-bred aphids, then they are a super food.
Never be tempted to feed ants.
Ideally, foods should be gut fed to help laden them with nutrients.
Spirulina flakes are super for feeding to crickets. Other foods to feed the feeders include carrot for crickets, and potato for springtails (the springtails eat fungal growth on the food).
Dart Frogs should be fed daily at least, but a day missed will do no harm to a sub-adult specimen.
Supplements.
Food should be mildly dusted with a reptile calcium powder in every 2 feeds.
If using a reptile supplement that contains Vitamin D or Vitamin A the be very careful.
I personally would recommend the use of a high solubility calcium source and vitamin D additive is used in the water bowl once a week. Such a product is Zolcal. Use at half the recommended dosage (this is very string stuff and overdosing will cause long-term damage to the frogs).
Lighting.
Despite incorrect claims in some quarters……Dart Frogs DO require UV light, but this is not always easily and safely given. The level’s required are quite low.
I would advise that the use of Zolcal replaces UV light administration unless you are absolutely sure that the light source is safe and the frogs cannot cling to the bulb (it is no use behind a glass screen!!).
An external cool lighting (fluorescent) can be places behind glass (on top of the tank) for visual and plants needs. An aquarium lamp is suitable.
Do not add any form of hot light source to the tank.
They do not need night-lights.
Escapes.
An escaped Dart Frog will rapidly die out of its humid environment.
If one goes missing, then quickly load as many buckets as possible with wet towels whilst hunting for the escaped frog.
But really, this is something that be sorted when giving them a home.
Sick Frogs.
The advice is to keep the tank clean and feed good quality food. Observe good hygiene. I would recommend working on Dart Frog tanks prior to dealing with other animals.
The bottom line is that treatments and knowledge of treatments is quite limited.
Other than that, Dart Frogs kept in good conditions prove to quite hardy.
Prevention of illness is actually very easy, and is better than trying to find a cure.
Longevity.
From 5 to 20 years depending upon species. There have been reports of longer life-spans, but time will tell us the maximum expected life-span in captivity.
I’ll leave that for now, and will be happy to expand on anything if requested.
Handling.
Handle Dart Frogs with surgical gloves. This is mainly to protect the frog.
Most captive bred specimens tend to have no toxin in their skin, but good practice should be reinforced in all situations.
Toxicity.
Most Dart Frogs obtain their toxins from their diet. Some are able to modify dietary alkaloids and change them to a more potent toxin; others have toxins that have yet not been shown to be dietary.
Some species contain tetradotoxin (as in pufferfish). There is evidence that species having this toxin may not lose it during captive keeping. It may even be speculated that captive bred specimens may still contain the toxin.
Only a few Dart Frogs contain a toxin that can deliver a lethal dose.
Make no mistakes, species of the genus Phyllobates contain one of the most toxic substances known and a single wild frog can kill many men (10 or 20? It can only be speculated).
Wild specimens of other species can deliver a toxin than can cause medically significant poisoning.
In general, however, if a list of recommended species is followed and the specimen is from a long-term captive bred line then the risks are very low (almost null).
Sources and starter-species.
There are many good starter species. However, few are readily available.
Dendrobates leucomeles and D.tinctorius sub-species and morphs are great starter species for all the right reason. One of those reasons is that they are awesome animals, and very lively and bold.
Adelphobates galactonotus (Splashbacks) are good starters and sometimes offered in shops.
Oophaga pumilio are easy enough, but the prices are high. I won’t recommend this species as a starter purely on the basis of excessively high prices for some morphs.
Dendrobates auratus (and morphs) is a good species, but can be quite shy and needs additional care with food size.
These are just a few that can be obtained quite readily.
I would not recommend starting with a thumbnail species. These need a guaranteed regular supply of very small food. They do not tolerate dehydration. But some species might be put on the list after a bit of experience with species named above.
Buy good quality feeding animals in the first place. Look out for poorly developed front legs, lethargy, clear dullness and scarring.
Avoid a frog that is continually sitting in a bowl of water: it may be ill.
Look at the water bowl….is it filthy?
Have a sniff of the housing? Does it have an unhealthy smell of purification? (by the way…a good earthy smell is a good sign)
Don’t buy a ‘charity case’ as a starter with the hope of giving it a better home.
Buy from a reputable source.
Avoid at all costs any frog that has come from illegal or suspect sources.
There is no reason for buying wild-caught frogs.
SUPPORT CONSERVATION.
Do not start with any Madagascan Dart Frog, eg Mantella (captive bred or not) as a starter.
Do not consider buying any Phyllobates species irrespective of being captive-bred or not. These should be treated as advanced keepers frogs. They are easy to keep, but the level of toxin even in captive bred species has to be treated as a hazard.
Support CITES in all cases.
Appreciate that these animals are presently under treat of extinction.
Aim towards fuelling the world-wide knowledge pool on captive breeding: this knowledge may be required in conservation efforts.
This is only a guide. A fuller account is really needed to justify the brief focus points above.
Ian
Irish Tropical Fish Society (ITFS) Member.
Please Log in to join the conversation.
- Puddlefish (Colin McCourt)
-
- Offline
- Senior Member
-
- Posts: 347
- Thank you received: 10
Saved and filed
Much appreciated
Regards
Colin
Please Log in to join the conversation.
- stretnik (stretnik)
-
- Visitor
-
Kev.
Please Log in to join the conversation.
- platty252 (Darren Dalton)
-
- Offline
- Moderator
-
- Posts: 2309
- Thank you received: 127
Hmmm! frogs, will i, wont i, ........
Please Log in to join the conversation.
- Puddlefish (Colin McCourt)
-
- Offline
- Senior Member
-
- Posts: 347
- Thank you received: 10
I am, so you must Darren:laugh:Hmmm! frogs, will i, wont i, ........
wanna fruitfly culture M8
Please Log in to join the conversation.
- stretnik (stretnik)
-
- Visitor
-
Kev.
Please Log in to join the conversation.
- igmillichip (ian millichip)
-
Topic Author
- Offline
- Moderator
-
- Posts: 3366
- Thank you received: 536
Else I'll have to start taking some photos.
I've got some photos of what set-up I use for newly acquired frogs or young froglets...I'll load them to photoucket (when I locate them).
I have plenty frog photos though. Some of these have been shown before...but so what. It'll fill some space whilst I'm doing something else.
Ideal Starter Frog: Dendrobates tinctorius azureus.
A good starter frog, but is shy and requires small food: Dendrobates auratus.
Not a starter frog: this is spawn from thumbnail PDFs. Note the developing tadpoles, and note that this is above water.
Not a starter frog, but I'll include the picture to temp ya. R.vanzolini
This tank is used for newly acquired adults or ones who have had a long tough journey (it actually had flying geckos in it when the photo was taken.....but is actually a dart frog tank).
A nebuliser fees cool fog into the system and this counteracts the slightly increased temperature that I use in this tank.
Here is a close up (but you can't see any detail) of the system that I use for adult thumbnail PDFs. The frog in the picture is R.ventrimaculata.
These are housed inside a perspex viv with plenty of ventilation holes drilled in the sides top and bottom.
The perspex container is then held within a normal glass vivarium. Heating mats contact with the glass vivarium and so are not in contact directly with the walls of the perspex viv.
Newly acquired frogs (or youngsters) may require close attention. The system that I use shown below has a false bottom.
The viv housing the frogs is placed inside a larger viv.
The inner viv has a slopping base made of glass and plastic mess (gravel tidy in this case).
Covering the bottom of the inner viv is tissue paper. This is changed daily.
However, this may be replaced with moss.
The system is thermostatically controlled, and has fan ventilation.
Water is floaded into the inner viv; the excess will drain through the false bottom into the outer viv (and it is removed very regularly).
I add several plastic shots glass with a lttle water in each. These are placed on their sides (as seen below).
In this shot, you'll also see 2 upright shot glasses containing peat: these are where I place sprintails.
The frogs in this 'nursery' set-up are gently cared for with clear vision of anything going amiss.
Here is a small Dendrobates leucomeles enjoying it's 'A&E' style system in 100% humidity and with perfect ventilation. These pics were taken some years ago....these babies are now moving on in age and very very chunky.
(For anyone who was at the Aquatic show in Tallagh this year, you would have seen these particular babies as adults).
I can't find any more pictures just yet on my harddrive, so maybe I'll get some of a prettier set-up.
ian
Irish Tropical Fish Society (ITFS) Member.
Please Log in to join the conversation.
- Puddlefish (Colin McCourt)
-
- Offline
- Senior Member
-
- Posts: 347
- Thank you received: 10
You mention one type of heating that I was thinking about.
Can you talk me through some specifics (apparatus and how everything ties in)
I would like to go with the reservoir idea with a false egg crate base covered with what (your reply)
Next up what temp would the water have to be to provide a stable environment for Leucs from a humidity standpoint.
What to do or pieces of kit to have to change that water. (it must become stale at some stage). Perhaps a drain plug or a standpipe for syphoning. Please elaborate. I would like to link up to a fogger, what water to use, Tap or RO whats your angle on these probably dumbass questions.
lastly what do you use to keep Fruitfly in the tank to prevent them going walkies all around your house.
Regards
C
Please Log in to join the conversation.
- igmillichip (ian millichip)
-
Topic Author
- Offline
- Moderator
-
- Posts: 3366
- Thank you received: 536
So...you want the high-tech system. I guessed as much.
I'll be back.
Irish Tropical Fish Society (ITFS) Member.
Please Log in to join the conversation.
- igmillichip (ian millichip)
-
Topic Author
- Offline
- Moderator
-
- Posts: 3366
- Thank you received: 536
Do you have an idea of whether you want to adapt a fish tank or a reptile vivarium?
I'll be back again.
Irish Tropical Fish Society (ITFS) Member.
Please Log in to join the conversation.
- Puddlefish (Colin McCourt)
-
- Offline
- Senior Member
-
- Posts: 347
- Thank you received: 10
Sorry to be a PITA... but your the man to ask.
& there will be more questions...lots more so brace yourself.
Regards
C
Please Log in to join the conversation.