I am gonna need a walkthrough to setting up co2

Hi all, help needed!

Sorry for the lenght of this but I know you need full details to help.

I have just bought / installed a second hand jbl proflora 603 system.Yesterday.

5kg fire extinguisher, regulator, co2 hosing, ph controller computer with temp and calibrated ph probe, bubble counter, ceramic disc glass diffuser. standard jbl co2 reactor not used.

Tank is a juwel 260 vision with standard t5 lighting gear but changed tubes to 2*54w tubes, front tube jbl natur t5 1047mm 9000k / rear jbl tropic t5 1047mm 4000k. 14hrs per day on since yesterday (I know I should improve lighting but need "cheapish" ideas on the route) No direct sunlight onto tank.

Filtration : JBL Cristal Profi e1500 / fluval 205 external. No carbon / medication etc in filters just sponges and ceramic tubes as standard.

heating : 2* ehim jager 100w heaters never coming on as the tank is running at constant 27.5c in this weather. our house is really hot with no heating turned on.

Substrate : JBL AquaBasis plus topped with manado substrate about 10 months ago but seems to be all manado after this amount of time.

Fertiliser: Ferropol 24 * 10 drops added this morning for the first time ever.

various plants bought and planted only one week ago with no idea what I was buying.

Full jbl master test kit. (so I should be able to give you any parameters needed).

Fully to over stocked with community fish.

Readings taken tonight:
Ammonia 0ppm
Nitrite 0ppm
Nitrate 10ppm

jbl permanent co2 test reading Dark blue / minimal co2. Test vial thing installed tonight at 9pm reading taken now 3hrs later no change from when installed.

Kh 2.0

ph 6.43 stable (with co2 running and controlled by computer bit of 603 kit) was 7.2 before co2 injection.

bubble counter 120bpm when settled (1min after computer turns it on)

hysteresis 0.05

Problems so far.
Some Plant new growth has gon tan / brown today after 1st 24hrs of co2 and 1st day of ferropol 24.

Kh seems very low (2) as in if i increase co2 level ph may go too low.



picture Before co2 / ferts





24 hrs after co2 12 hrs after ferropol 24





All advise / questions welcome.

update, Jbl intank permanent co2 test still reads zero co2.

I recon I have to increase Kh levels in order to inject more co2, am I on the right track?

There are plenty of the members on here with more experience on co2 in a planted tank than i have but i have had some success with a few tanks. By no means an expert but I will give you a few pointers that may help out.

Your original ph reading was about the same as my normal ph and the ph drop you got after turning on the co2 indicates you were getting a level of co2 dissolving in the water. Has the ph reverted to your normal level? which would indicate the co2 added is having no effect. Ian can give all the details you want on the subject of water chemistry related to gh, kh and reactions that result in carbonate precipitation.

What kind of diffuser are you using to add the co2?
What is the capacity of your tank? the 120 bubbles per minute you stated may be a bit low, I was running approx 180bmp on a 180l tank. Approx 120 on a 125l tank. It may be that you are not adding enough co2.
However that said, the ph drop you registered only 3 hours after turning on the co2 indicates you were dissolving quite a bit of co2.

It could simply be that you have too much surface agitation in the tank, you stated you have 2 filters and the photos show quite a turbulent surface. It could be worth placing the filter outlets further under the surface or pointing them downwards in the tank so as not to create so much surface agitation.

Also, it may sound obvious but you should have the co2 diffuser as far as possible from the filter outlets, unless you have the outlets set up in such a way that they force the co2 bubbles to circulate around the tank. Definitely need the diffuser as close to the bottom of the tank as you can get it too, this will allow the maximum amount of time for the co2 to dissolve into the water.

You could try a search on youtube, may help you out with the set-up. Once the set-up of the co2 system is ok, its a matter of fine tuning the bubble count you inject to get the desired level of co2.



Also bear in mind, the drop checker you have may need a specific set-up. Some specify using tank water and others require water at a specific hardness to give an accurate indication. Even if the drop checker is intended to use tank water, you are ultimately monitoring for ph changes. The level of co2 dissolved in the water can be the same across several tanks, but will not necessarily result in the same ph change. It is dependent on the ph you start with. Over to Ian at this point for the scientific explanation of the logarithmic scale that is ph and the impact of co2
I know of people who don’t bother with drop checkers, turn the co2 up to the point where the fish are at the surface gasping for oxygen and back off the co2 bubble count slowly until the fish back away from the surface. I would not necessarily advocate this method, however it is effective.

Cheers,

Bill.

I have taken a gamble and manually set the ph computer to 6.2ph this is sending in a lot of co2 as I write bringing the ph down from the 6.43 auto setting, the interesting thing is that the ph seems to need a lot more time of co2 injection to change by 0.01 point so maybe I have reached the kh buffer level and ph wont drop so quick from now on? hope so!

Now i gotta stay up and monitor levels and fish.

Just wish i had a higher kh to start with.

To answer some of your questions Bill:
Co2 has not reverted as the controller computer keeps ph at a auto level of 6.43 (by injecting co2) which is based on a kh reading that I set, reading is kh2. I have just overridden the auto adjust ph6.43 and told it ph6.20.

I am using a glass ceramic disc diffuser at low level in tank so the bubbles rise until cought in filter outlet stream and washed away througout tank.

I did have lots of surface agitation until tonight when I reset outlets downwards a little so now much less.

worried about how low ph will go to get correct permanent co2 meter reading correct.

Should I add Baking Powder to increase kh?

Bill, you say "I know of people who don’t bother with drop checkers, turn the co2 up to the point where the fish are at the surface gasping for oxygen and back off the co2 bubble count slowly until the fish back away from the surface. I would not necessarily advocate this method, however it is effective."

Would the ph not drop through the floor?

Pat.

Would be reluctant to go messing with water chemistry to adjust the kh. It is easy to get the desired level but very difficult to maintain so best to leave it as it is. I think your best option is to use the controller as your gauge and ignore the drop checker. Is the drop checker using tank water or is it using bought water of a specific hardness? Just bear in mind that the function of the drop checker is dependant on the ph and kh of the water in it too. At the end of the day, the solution in the drop checker is a re-agent for testing ph and operates the same way as your standard test kit. So it may be an unrealistic expectation to get the correct colour indication on the drop checker. Can’t think offhand what the hardness of the standard reference is. Your kh is quite low, so could be contributing to the situation where the ph is not changing. TO get the ph change you are seeing implies you are getting the co2 into the water. You would have to refer to Ian or a web search to determine how to calculate just how much.
TO be honest, I would be inclined to leave the ph at the 6.43 mark for a week or so and observe the plants to determine the impact of the co2. If its having no obvious impact on the plants, then go to the ph of 6.2. Definitely keep an eye on the fish during any experiments with adjusting the levels of co2 injection.
It sounds like you have the hardware set-up correctly so its basically down to the water chemistry at this stage.

Cheers,

Bill.

Just another point I thought of, you need to ensure that you are not getting any co2 bubbles into the drop checker itself. This can throw the readings you will get.

Thanks Bill,
Yhe drop checker does not get any water added, its the jbl permanent test. You put in 35 drops of a special soloution supplied with it then carefully invert it so that air is trapped underneath and submerge to a depth of 10cm below water level.

www.jbl.de/en/download/7596/Gebrauchsanl...CO2-ph-Permanent.pdf

after reading that link I paniced as it says add tank water and a couple of drops of indicator fluid. My test kit instructions are different as in no water needed just 35 drops of indicator fluid.

Update:
Still zero co2 showing on the Jbl in tank permanent test, so I have decided to ignore that. Reasons for this decision are:

1. Ph has dropped as expected when injecting co2. Ph 7,2 before injecting co2, Ph 6.25 controlled and stable by injecting co2 via computer controller. obviously co2 is dissolved by this drop in Ph.

2. Major improvement in some plants since co2 injection started (see todays pictures below)




You can clearly see much tighter and lush new growth / leaves.

3: Plants have started "pearling" this evening letting off oxygen bubbles, some plants are streaming it off, thats gotta be good?

Now for the bad news. black hair like algae has appeared on weaker leaves, I have pruned all infected leaves off. Is this normal?

Thanks again
Pat.

Hi Pat,

you are obviously getting co2 into the tank based on the drop in ph and also the pearling on the plants. There is no way you will get the pearling unless the plants are able to photosynthesise their little hearts out

On the black hair algae, this could be due to elevated phosphates in the tank. You could get your water tested for phosphates in a good lfs, Seahorse will definitely do this for you. Ideally to minimise algae growth, you want a nitrate to phosphate ration of 10 to 1. If you have elevated phosphates, you may need to review your feeding regime as its typically caused by uneaten food. TO get rig of the algae, you can add an overdose of easy carbo to the tank, approx 2 to 3 times the normal dose for a few days will kill off all the lagae and should not cause any harm to your livestock. This is a tried and tested method and it does work, I have used it myself.
You can also add specific media to your tank which will remove phosphates if you believe its not coming from uneaten food, there are various media available which go into the tank or the filter. JBL Manadoo will also do the job, it does not remove the phosphates as such, just stores them along with other nutrients and acts as a reservoir for your plants.

Cheers,

Bill.

@ JohnH, Sorry for being late to the Table on this one, I have been a bit busy, Bill covered a lot, my only addition would be to check out the Planted Tank Website to fill in any blanks, it's a wonderful site.

Kev.