Lighting

Some of you may have seen from my previous posts that I purchased a new tank recently. It's an Aquatlantis Elite Horizon 100. It's a 230l tank with dimensions of 100cm X 50cm X 60cm. It's a bow front tank so the 50cm is the widest point.

www.aquatlantis.com/uk-frame-produtos.php?id_produto=51

After some research, I've come to the conclusion that the supplied lighting system is inadequate for a 230l tank. It comes as standard with 2x25w 30" T8 tubes with reflectors. The original supplied tubes were not even aquatic tubes, just standard domestic versions.

Yesterday, I upgraded to two 25w Hagen Power-Glo tubes which has improved the light, but I feel still isn't enough for my plants. It's fine for viewing the fish, but I am concerned about my plants.

At present I have:

4 X Echinodorus Bleheri (Paniculatus)
2 X Hydrocotyle Sibthorpioides (Maritima)
2 X Alternanthera Reineckii (Lilacina)
1 X Java Fern

Is the lighting adequate? If not, how can I improve it without spending a packet?

Thanks,

I dont know much about plants that's why I thing java fern is great as it lives even in a bare bottom tank.
To have a planted tank like in the photo is tricky, with just 2 tubes the only real way of giving the more light is to reduce the temp to 23C, that's like adding another tube as the radio of light to the metabolism changes, that who plant wholesaler can store plants in the dart at 2C for a week or 2.
To get your plants to look like that, you would really need to put a layer of loam 2 0r 3 cm followed by say 6cm of very fine gravel, hence a planted tank looks best in a deep tank as the bottom third is basically the substrate.

I dont think you need CO2 injectors and all that bollixck, the secret is substrate and lower temp and small little fish.
I love the tank, years ago you could only get the bow from Plexiglas's which scratches, I think the tank look great, dont forget jave moss is basically an aquatic equivalent to a weed.

Thanks Sean. I'll keep an eye on my plants to see how it goes. Two of them have a medium to high light requirement. My tank has medium at best. If they don't do well, I'll just swap them out for plants that need low light.

I know the Paniculatus is also very undemanding and would grow in a ditch so that should be fine.

I'll also bring the temperature down. It's currently at 25.5c to 26c but can rise to 26.5c during the day with the light on. I'll bring it closer to 25c.

I'm pleased with the tank and like the bow front. However, it can be hard on the eyes if standing too close due to the distortion.

Don't take what I am saying as gospel, plants is the area I know least about, if any one has any ideas, dont be afraid to bring them forward, may be there is an aquarium plant specialist out there?

I never really go into plants as all my aquariums are bare bottom with just a sprinkling of fine sand at the front to give an illusion of not been bare bottom, I once got a big clay pot and filled it up with cactus soil then planted an amazon sword roots directly into the loam then filled it with fine gravel and put it into a bare bottom tank, naturally hiding the pot with rocks and it grow massive. so big it competely took over the tank.

One of my non fish keeping hobbies is gardening, not the flower basket variety as that type of garnerning it a bit o.a.p/ grave dodging form of gardening, I love lawns and have a real golf green with some rough grass around it to my nabors amazement. Its great for practicing putting.

50w for 230 litres isn't enough. Do get a decent plant growth you will need around .5w/l. Basically you will need to double your light intensity.
I got rid of most of my T8 lights by now and refitted my tanks with t5s. First of all you will get more light for the same wattage (about 80% more) and after the ESB keeps on raising electricity costs you will probably making your initial outlet back within a couple of ESB bills.
I'm running my 600 l tank with 4*21w t5's and the plants (mostly swords) grow well.
All the co2 in the world will not improve your plant growth if you don't add more light.

I went out to Blanchardstown today and priced starters and two P5 bulbs:

Starters €88 each (I'd need two)
Bulbs €39 each
Look on my face - priceless!

I'll take a look on the net and see if I can see them any cheaper - I'm sure I will.

Almost sure that starters are cheaper in Kinsealy.

they are about 45€ in Cork, Arcadia electric starters for 2 bulbs

they are about 45€ in Cork, Arcadia electric starters for 2 bulbs

I'd doubt if that's the T5 version, sounds more like the T8 at that price.

Nope, Fins and things sell them for about the same price

50w for 230 litres isn't enough. Do get a decent plant growth you will need around .5w/l. Basically you will need to double your light intensity.
I got rid of most of my T8 lights by now and refitted my tanks with t5s. First of all you will get more light for the same wattage (about 80% more) and after the ESB keeps on raising electricity costs you will probably making your initial outlet back within a couple of ESB bills.
I'm running my 600 l tank with 4*21w t5's and the plants (mostly swords) grow well.
All the co2 in the world will not improve your plant growth if you don't add more light.

Assuming you are running this in a discus tank, you would need more light has you would've an higher temp than a normal comunity tank, so if you have 4 lights at 28C, is like 3lights at 24C as the metabolism double for every 8C raise, I think this guy has his tank at normal temp?

Normal temp. It runs between 24c and 25c.

I haven't really seen any correlation between temperature and light requirements in aquatic plants. The only thing that I can tell you is that I still have a 300 litre tank with 4*38watt T8 on it and the 600l with the 4*21w T5s looks brighter.

Assuming you are running this in a discus tank, you would need more light has you would've an higher temp than a normal comunity tank, so if you have 4 lights at 28C, is like 3lights at 24C as the metabolism double for every 8C raise, I think this guy has his tank at normal temp?

Sean could you explain this theory in more detail please, my question really centres around the fact that how do you know the metabolic rate for a plant? different plants will have different temperature requirements, different plants also have very different growth rates usually dictated by light or lack of it, I would suggest light is the primary factor here rather than temprature, Im not suggesting what you say is incorrect just that It is not standard practice or belief in the planted tank community that by lowering your tank by 2 degrees that you will achieve the same result as adding another tube over your tank.

@Ken

Ken I think you have to first of all decide what type of tank you wish to have, ie. what type of plants do you want to grow and how much maintainence are you prepared to give the end result.

Basically you have a 60 US gallon tank (approx) so using the watts per gallon guideline you want to achieve about 1.5 WPG (about 90 watts in total over the tank.......90 watts divided by 60 = 1.5 WPG) this will give you a nice amount of light for a low maintainence setup and also allow you to grow a reasonable amount of low light plants, swords, ferns, mosses could easily be grown plus many other types of plant.

If you start going over about 1.8WPG or 108watts (1.8 multiplied by 60 = 108 watts) you will probably require CO2 injection, go over 2WPG and you will definatly require CO2 injection, CO2 won't be an option at this level of light, it will be a requirement otherwise you will get algae.

If you light this tank with more than 2WPG it will also require special fertiliser treatments along with the CO2, you would need to add NPK (nitrate potassium and phosphate on a regular basis along with a general trace type fertiliser also) having more than 2WPG will allow you to grow a greater range of plants but it will require more regular pruning and trimming back than a lower light tank, also it will be harder to balance and keep algae free, but thats part of the hobby if you want to go that far.

Personally for this tank I would add 2 more T8 tubes and double the lighting you have, this will give you about 1.6WPG and should allow you to grow a reasonable variety of plants without a high maintainence effort. btw CO2 injection in lowlight tanks will give very good growth rates and excellent results, but must be countered by added fertiliser to compensate for the extra growth, basically let any of the essential elements deplete (the NPK as mentioned above) in a planted tank and you will get algae, but by the nature of a low light setup this process goes slower than if you were to add lots of light over the tank.

Anyway hope thats clear as mud,good luck with it and don't forget the pics if your not sure on anything just ask, sorry I couldn't get back to the algae thread earlier, christmas committments on my behalf got in the way.

zig,
I agree. I just metioned t5s because they are cheaper to run in the long run, especially with our ESB bills going up another 12.5% this months. If you only run one tank it doesn't make much of a difference but if you have several like me it will show.

Ken,
you can run an Amano style tank even if you keep discus but it involves a lot of work. Personally I don't have the time or patience to do it. Some people are big into aquascaping and that's fine. I concentrate more on my fish than my plants. I mostly grow swords, even some very rare ones. Since the water in my tanks has a pH of around 6.4 and a carbonate hardness of less than 3 kH I don't need CO2 injection for my purposes.
I have one 180l tank running which is a bit like a Dutch style aquarium. Plenty of light, CO2 and fert. Very few fish though. A couple of tetras and corys, slow running filter. Not mich work needed here since the fish stocking levels are very low. What I am trying to say is that you will have to make up your mind what you want your tank to look like and how much work and time you want to invest. Once you have done this, come back and we will be able to give you soem pointers

First of all Zig know more about plants than all of us put together(I mean this genially) so as he is in Dublin, I think he should be invited to give a talk as for a lot of us its are weakest subject?

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Metabolism that a general science so easier to under stand.

Let X= the correct number of tubes ar per Zig recommendation at say
25C e.g 3 tubes (assuming it was a single species that lives at that temp with that number of tubes)

What the number of tubes at 22C?
What the number of tubes at 28C?

Metabolism double for every increase of 8C
e.g at 22C 25-22/8(3) = 0.375Mul 3 tubes = 3-1.125 tubes = 1.875 so round up to 2 tubes

e.g at 28C 28-25/8(3) = 0.375 Mul 3 tubes = 3+ 1.125 = 4.125 round down to 4 tubes.

Hi Sean,
what you are referring to is extotherm animal metabolism. Doesn't work that way for plants or warm blooded animals.
Holger

I thought you were keeping trifids (plants that walk around eating humans ) I am sure you are right Holgar it 8C for fish (metabolism doable) what is the rate for plants (approx will do)
I know there is a relationship as plants seem to do better in cooler water, but you are dead right it could be 2 or 15C???? what is it Holgar

Sean,
as I said I don't think there is much correlation between metabolism rate and temperature in plants, well not in the limited temperature range we are discusssing here. I emailed the question to my old plant science lecturer. See what he's coming back with. Will let you know. Hope you have the nerve for a large essay. His average reply.
Holger

Thanks for the advice guys.

I want a nice planted tank, nothing fancy that will require moderate maintenance. The medium light requirement would suit me fine. I'm not pushed about CO2, but would probably rather avoid the complication if I can.

I checked online and adding T5s is expensive. The twin Arcadia starters work out at about €130 (the T8 versions are MUCH cheaper - €25). The tubes themselves work out at around €30 each. To be honest, that's a bit much and would probably end in divorce.

I don't have the option to add two more 25w T8s as I don't have the room due to the bow front tank - there's room at the back, but not at the front.

I came across the Interpet compact T5s which look good value. They do a 36w and 55w in the dual starter. I would possibly opt for the 36w.

www.aquaristikshop.com/cgi-bin/neu/websh...g7dxiRbbsx1qsy1NVM5k

The starter works out at about €65 with the bulbs working out at €20 each. This looks like a better option. However, would this be too much light? I did a search and found that these lights (particularly the 55w version) did have overheating problems which perished the plastic/rubber holder. Interpet were working to fix this at the beginning of last year, but I'm not sure if they fully addressed it.

Another option, and the cheapest would be a 30w T8 at the rear and an 18w T8 at the front. It would mean two separate controllers, but would still work out cheaper.

Hi Ken,
I just checked with Fins and Things in Midleton. He can get T5 dual controllers for abot 45€. They can be installed into your hood. You can get T5 bulbs for about 7€ in any electrical supply shop. They are not the expensive ones aquatic retailers will try to flog you. If you are DIY minded you can also built your own starter units. It cost me about 30€ for mine. Probably not worth your while since you only have one tank. With the number of tanks I'm running it did.
Furthermore with T5s you get more light for less wattage, so in the long run you will save the money you spend on setting up T5s
Holger

Thanks apistodiscus.

I was out in Brittas today and decided to go for the Interpet compact T5 24w. These don't appear to be affected by the overheating problem of the higher power compact units.

They also have the advantage of being small so are easy to fit into the tight space under my hood. Unfortunately, they only had 1, so I need to source another.

I mounted it at the rear of the tank and it has definitely made a difference. It took me a while to secure the clips to the lid as the supplied fixings are poor. Then I drilled the holes in the wrong side of the lid (I picked a bad day to give up coffee). However, they're only small holes so no big deal.

It's a bit of a pain having lights attached to the panels when accessing the tank, but there is no other place to mount them. I should have sufficient light with the two 25w T8s and two 24w T5s which should bring me up to 98w which is 1.6 watts per gallon. Probably more if you consider that the T5s give off more light (some say 80% more) than the equivalent sized T8.

I'll get some before/after pictures up tomorrow.

Hi Ken,
that's plenty of light since the T5s give you up to 80% more light at the same wattage as T8s. I'd put reflectors on them. Quite cheap and even more light.
Holger

If I'm likely to have the equivalent of 137 watts over a 60 gallon tank giving me almost 2.3 watts per gallon, should I be considering CO2?

If so, what system is recommended.

See how you are doing without it first. It you think that your plant growth is OK for what you want, why bother with CO2?

Thanks apistodiscus, that's what I'll do. I was in with Gavin in Wackers today and picked up a few plants more suited to lower light conditions.

Hopefully I'll start to see the algae abate over the next few weeks.