refuses to spit

i hve a female jalo reef who refuse to spit.i have never tried to strip a female and dont intend to start ,is ther anything else i could do or is it just a waiting game
john

Sometimes they will spit in the bucket,just after catching them.

PM SENT

She'll spit when she's ready

a good topic for debate john.
have stripped fish countless times over the years but would now avoid it except if necessary for the parents/fry health. i think it is a barbaric proccess and would only reccomend it as a last resort.
on occasions first time nervous mothers will hold fry too long to the detriment of all and on these occasions it is obviously the only option. tough bulletproof tropheus can usually be stripped without too much difficulty or stress but again it is best to let them spit in the main tank as the adults rarely harm even the tiniest fry.
also one of the main attractions when keeping mouthbrooders is the parental post release care.
anyway john, with the afra just let her release the fry naturally when shes ready.

thanks for all the replies i think ill give her a little while longer as i just dont feel right about stripping her ,shesin a tank on her own so shes out of harms way,i suppose like a midwife would say babies will come when there ready
john

Have found I have to strip my tropheus, only ever seen them spit once and i have had countless holding and never ended up with fry,
Hate doing it

derek wrote:

a good topic for debate john.
have stripped fish countless times over the years but would now avoid it except if necessary for the parents/fry health. i think it is a barbaric proccess and would only reccomend it as a last resort.
on occasions first time nervous mothers will hold fry too long to the detriment of all and on these occasions it is obviously the only option. tough bulletproof tropheus can usually be stripped without too much difficulty or stress but again it is best to let them spit in the main tank as the adults rarely harm even the tiniest fry.
also one of the main attractions when keeping mouthbrooders is the parental post release care.
anyway john, with the afra just let her release the fry naturally when shes ready.

Hi John,

I would agree with Derek 100% as there is a lot of experience behind what he is saying............Tom.

les wrote:

Have found I have to strip my tropheus, only ever seen them spit once and i have had countless holding and never ended up with fry,
Hate doing it

les
are the tropheus in a species only tank as they normally dont molest their or even other species fry. one of the problems with the ritual stripping of fish through generations is that the normal (in the lake) behavior is lost and the stripped fry grow up to be poor parents. also fry of most herbivore mouthbrooders grow at a much faster rate when left with parents as i have found many times. so even if stripping is practised it is good to at least some of the time let natural behavior take place and if you must strip let it be as late as possible.

ps
how did the shelldweller and suspected worms situation work out.

derek wrote:

one of the problems with the ritual stripping of fish through generations is that the normal (in the lake) behavior is lost and the stripped fry grow up to be poor parents. also fry of most herbivore mouthbrooders grow at a much faster rate when left with parents as i have found many times. so even if stripping is practised it is good to at least some of the time let natural behavior take place and if you must strip let it be as late as possible.

Derek,Ive being stripping on day 3 lately,and tumbling the eggs..with good success,would these eggs/fry turn out to be bad parents as well?

dubfish wrote:

derek wrote:

one of the problems with the ritual stripping of fish through generations is that the normal (in the lake) behavior is lost and the stripped fry grow up to be poor parents. also fry of most herbivore mouthbrooders grow at a much faster rate when left with parents as i have found many times. so even if stripping is practised it is good to at least some of the time let natural behavior take place and if you must strip let it be as late as possible.

Derek,Ive being stripping on day 3 lately,and tumbling the eggs..with good success,would these eggs/fry turn out to be bad parents as well?

hi alan, as you know there are differing views on this, but ime continiously stripping females does cause a loss of the natural parental behavior. it is also imo the case that stripped fry will often lack the skill
to brood successfully. most of the commercial tropheus breeders use wild fish as they are always solid breeders with strong broods, they strip early and breed and rebreed and then the dealer sells or moves on the spent adults and starts with new wild stock. the stripped fry grow up and are generally inconsistent parents. that is probably why f1 tropheus are so abundant and so called wilds can sometimes be relatively cheaply bought. older tropheus are rarely commercially valued due to hyperdominance, lower fecundity and bad parenting skills from repeated stripping (a bit like battery farmed hens).

came home last night and noticed she only seemed to have half a moutful of fry so went and moved a rock and filter and there they were ,this morning she had finally spit the rest.there is about 30 fry that seem quite big but a bit skinny if yoyu know what i mean.
thanks for all replies and lets keep this topic going as it is interesting to hear what people think regarding stripping or not
john

Congrats John; so she spit half out now? very unusual behaviour; thought they spit all at one go. wouldnt it be nice if you could strip the other half ; raise the 2 groups side by side and see the difference in paternal instincts in the future; if any!

Back to topic; i have never strippped any of my malawis before.

regards

john wrote:

came home last night and noticed she only seemed to have half a moutful of fry so went and moved a rock and filter and there they were ,this morning she had finally spit the rest.there is about 30 fry that seem quite big but a bit skinny if yoyu know what i mean.
thanks for all replies and lets keep this topic going as it is interesting to hear what people think regarding stripping or not
john

That's great news, if she "seemed to have half a moutful of fry" it might be that her jaws are still stretched from carrying so many fry and her mouth is actually empty. Just a thought............Tom

john wrote:

.there is about 30 fry that seem quite big but a bit skinny if yoyu know what i mean.
john

young and/or insecure females often hold too long and this can lead to skinny fry as only a few mouthbrooding species, ie tropheus, continue to feed while holding. however, the fry will quickly add bulk and catch up with good feeding.
some species frontosa most haps etc. spit the fry and take them back in at any sign of danger and at lights out, for a week or so, while others careleus etc. dont.
as tom points out older mouthbrooders can get a droopy or stretched mouth/jaw, which will give the appearance of brooding.

Hi derek
I have 30 Tropheus (28 females to 2 males, 20 wild caught 10 juvives) and 2 Tanganicodus irsacae Ive had countless holding and never got any fry until i started striping them, I have on occasion found the remains of some fry.
Last week for the first time ever I found three fry in the tank but I think the female may have spit them as i was cleaning the tank hate stripping them as a i can only imagine how stressful it is for them

ps
how did the shelldweller and suspected worms situation work out.
Think it was down to cheap brine shrimp eggs, stopped feeding them for 4 days and put them on a fix of NLS and frozen brine shrimp, seems to have done the job no more white pooh

younger fish often are unreliable parents esp. as they may well have been stripped early from the mouth themselves, and the colony itself will not be yet firmly established. younger fish in the colony will often kill but rarely eat "intruders" as will the gobies.
sometimes if she dos'nt feel the environment is safe a female will refuse to release fry naturally to the detriment of all, and in such cases stripping is a last resort. but only by practised and experienced fishkeepers.
if we must strip and sometimes it is probably necessary, then it is best to leave it as late as possible when the fry are about ready to be released and to keep hands wet and/or use a wet soft cloth. as tropheus are tough and have big lips they are among the easiest fish to strip. females then return to the fray to be immediately hunted down by the dominant males, but unlike most other species, they are ready very soon to spawn again.

well i try to keep and breed 17 tropheus in to 250 liter tank-NO.They was holding eggs,but no fry after 30 days.I try in 400 liter tank still same problem.Now tropheus in 850 liter tank and i have fry now.



so i think need biger tank and no need to stript them.


Gedas

good man gedas. there may well be several fry hiding in the rocks as they usually keep out of the way till they get a bit bigger.