should you stop young fish from breeding

should we try to stop young fish from breeding.iknow for some fish i.e kiilifish that you have to breed them when young but lets say malawi cichlids , should there be a certain age before we start to breed from them ,when fish bred does this inhibit growth and devolpment because alot of there energy is used up carrying ,feeding and defending fry.whats peoples taughts on this ,
john

Excellent topic John.

ian

a good topic for sure but in a fish life how young is young?? how is there a way to determine an age to start at or is a certain size an indicator because any fish of the same species will grow at different rates, mature at different rates and possibly be ready at different stages of growth so how is there a way to know?? for that reason i agree with johnH... let them get it on because i can assure they make me jelous everytime they do so i wouldn't stop them enjoying themselves

dave

I would generally say a lot of the fish we buy in the Lfks are fairly young especially african cichlids if they've been imported due to the costs of shipping large fish so you could make an educated guess anyway.with livebearers and Bettas etc I understand it's a lot more difficult.but iff we do know should we try stop them
John

I'm gonna try to avoid mentioning RedOx.......but that is what it is all about (yep...I mentioned it).

For anyone who remembers sitting through my (lengthy) talk on water chemistry, I did an animation of bricks falling off a lorry and people rushing around different rooms in a party......well, that is it. (not that that enlightens anything).

John Gannon mentioned energy: in the captive environment the energy paths and RedOx within the fish is different to the wild. But I'll leave it at that.

Often we see that some killifish will go into hyper-aging just after spawning; some Bettas will last only a short while after breeding (especially the males).

There will be an optimal age for breeding in different fish depending on the species and gender.

I would say that a period just after sexual maturity (and not at sexual maturity) is probably the best time. Too soon after sexual maturity or too late after sexual maturity is probably detrimental to the females.
In animals such as Guinea Pigs and other mammals that we breed here, they become sexually quite quickly.....the best time for breeding the females is not just at maturity but a few months after that. Leaving it too late before the first breeding can also be detrimental to the females.

Males, however, may have a detriment purely through exhaustion (as you get with male guinea pigs in a harem of females or with a male siamese fighting fish constantly looking after the young).

ian

Isn't it better to just let nature take its course

Ok I understand people saying let nature take its course and I agree to a certain extent but let's say I have a group of psuedotropheus salousi which are only about an inch (max size 3) one of the males has turned blue and dominant and is breeding with females. in the wild I don't believe this fish would not have changed colour and would be nowhere near breeding. by letting this carry on am I stopping this fish reaching its full potential and possibly reducing its life span .another question would be are any fry that come from these juveniles going to be inferior and have less a chance of survival.
At the moment I'm completely undecided in this and would like to hear what people have to say ,for or against
John

This is a good question with many possible answers.
Although we try to recreate as natural conditions as possible the aquarium is never going to compare with the lakes or rivers of the wild. So we have to interfere to prevent ultra aggression or hybridising, so it follows that we should also try to manipulate breeding to get the best possible results.
Female fish growth will definitely be retarded by the strains of too early or too often breeding. Young angelfish females bred too early and continiously will not grow as large or strong as females which breed when closer to adult size and for mouthbrooders the strain of early and/or early and often brooding is often fatal.
On the other hand older fish are often less fertile and more unreliable and intolerant, so it is best to try to breed from younger but mature adults. In nature fish can escape from overly amourous males but in the aquarium they have to submit or else.
The above only really applies to fish such as cichlids which practise brood aftercare as tetras, corys etc. expand very little energy or effort other than the odd mating frenzy.