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Stripping mouthbrooders...Right or wrong?
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Hi,
John Howell who has managed the forum for years is getting on and wishes to retire from the role of managing it.
Over the years, he has managed the forum through good days and bad days and he has always been fair.
He has managed to bring his passion for fish keeping to the forum and keep it going for so long.
I wish to thank John for his hard work in keeping the forum going.
With John wishing to "retire" from the role of managing the forum and the forum receiving very little traffic, I think we must agree that forum has come to a natural conclusion and it's time to put it to rest.
I am proposing that the forum be made read-only from March 2022 onwards and that no new users or content be created. The website is still registered for several more years, so the content will still be accessible but no new topics or replies will be allowed.
If there is interest from the ITFS or other fish keeping clubs, we may redirect traffic to them or to a Facebook group but will not actively manage it.
I'd like to thank everyone over the years who helped with forum, posted a reply, started a new topic, ask a question and helped a newbie in fish keeping. And thank you to the sponsors who helped us along the away. Hopefully it made the hobby stronger.
I'd especially like to thank John Howell and Valerie Rousseau for all of their contributions, without them the forum would have never been has successful.
Thank you
Darragh Sherwin
Stripping mouthbrooders...Right or wrong?
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08 Oct 2012 13:45 #1
by ger310 (Ger .)
Alright lads,i was just doing a bit of reading up on the subject of stripping mouthbrooders,the different methods people used to do it and so on and on a few occasions i ran in to the arguement that 'some' experienced hobbyists argue that stripping should not be done as it could lead to future generations of females who won't 'hold' their fry full term.....Would any of the experienced members here have a view on this? cheers
Ger
What do you call a three legged Donkey?
A Wonkey....duh ha 
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08 Oct 2012 14:06 #2
by JohnH (John)
Ger,
While I'm hardly qualified to comment on this, being only an 'occasional' keeper of anything which might vaguely need 'stripping' I feel that I can offer an opinion nonetheless.
For what it's worth I find this process to be really rather unnatural, if not a little immoral, and raises areas of potential danger for both the 'carrier' and the 'carried'.
Nature has a great way of dealing with these situations and, in my view, shouldn't need a 'helping hand'.
It's not something I have ever tried, nor ever would I - but it will be interesting to hear the views of other, more experienced-in-the-ways-of-these-fish, aquarists.
I would especially like to read the views of Derek and one or two African Cichlid 'fans'.
John
Location:
N. Tipp
We're just two lost souls swimming in a fish bowl - year after year.
ITFS member.
It's a long way to Tipperary.
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08 Oct 2012 14:24 #3
by sheag35 (Seamus Gillespie)
Fishkeeping the Only way to get wet and wild
currently 25 tanks, and breeding is the aim of everything i keep
location:Limerick
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08 Oct 2012 15:18 #4
by davey_c (dave clarke)
i have no experience with stripping fish (had stripping females wrote till i noticed and edited
) but anyways i was in a sponsor last week shop who had 3 peacocks holding, he swiftly netted them into a free tank when they just spat out free swimmers... as said, i think it depends on what species you have, i would even mention the species to maybe get a more accurate feedback. i do believe it can inhibit mothering instincts in the fry though because if stripped they will have no parent contact in which to learn what to do when their time comes to be parents themselves... just my opinion more so..
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08 Oct 2012 17:38 #5
by igmillichip (ian millichip)
There is an argument in favour of stripping...........but it is a very very weak argument indeed considering the context.
The only place where I would see stripping a necessary evil would be in the controlled environment of potential conservation where the risks of allowing the specimen to release naturally out-weigh the risks of affecting future generations.....that, though, would be a very rare necessity.
As for any fish that I see in the hobby today.....the above argument holds not weight whatsoever as I see no fish in dire need of such methods to secure future generations.
The attempts made by many to do this are very amateurish (brutish);
The females get stressed;
The young do not experience the survival traits needed to for strong future stock;
Money and Dollar Signs may be seen as a driving force in some cases.
I have done this over 30 years ago (mainly on Tropheus I'll add), and on that basis I am against it now.
ian
Irish Tropical Fish Society (ITFS) Member.
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08 Oct 2012 21:38 #6
by derek (Derek Doyle)
I fully agree with all the above comments as stripping damages and stresses both mother and fry. It is neither necessary or practical as anyone who needs to strip fish because of the lack of spare aquariums will have no way of growing fry to saleable size.
Roughly time the start of the mouthbrooding proccess and just before brood release remove female to spare tank and allow natural release. The female can be returned to main tank after a few days. most malawis brood for about 3 weeks, tropheus a bit longer and frontosa up to 5 weeks. Victorians and river fish release much smaller fry at 2 weeks or so.
Some mothers (careleus etc) dont take young back into mouth once released but most of them (haps etc)will continue to take fry back for a week or so after first release until it becomes impractical due to size of fry..
30 tanks specialise in african cichlids, angelfish and various catfish
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09 Oct 2012 12:06 #7
by ger310 (Ger .)
Thanks very much for the reply's and also thanks sheag35 for fishing out the other posts......Very interesting read for the likes of me
The resounding view from what was said on here seems to be that it is wrong for many reasons.
Personally i'm always of the opinion of 'let nature do it's thing' so it's not something i would ever contemplate doing but unfortunately if there's dollar's to be made it will alway's be done no matter how stressful or brutal it is for mother or fry.
Thanks again
Ger
What do you call a three legged Donkey?
A Wonkey....duh ha
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09 Oct 2012 17:24 #8
by igmillichip (ian millichip)
Even with non-mouth brooding cichlids, I feel that leaving the eggs and fry with the parents is the best.
Yes, again, there were days when discus eggs were raised artificially.....but the best offsprng are going to be those raised by the parents.
Some parents are poor parents....if so then that is the way it is; by removing young from such parents is simply concentrating the problem of poor parenting and poor stock-strength.
Again, if there were a genuine conservation need for such a programme.....then would be a reason, but , to be honest, I cannot think of many cichlids that need such breeding programmes.
Some fish may not be too affected wrt stock-quality by such artificial breeding methods though.
That may sound like the words of a purist, but how else can we address the observation of weaker and weaker stock doing the rounds?
As an old codger, I would love to see johanni, chipokae etc today that had the standards of fish from when they first came into the hobby (just after being discovered to science in the 70s).
There are more aspects to such degredation of stock than stripping, but it all contributes.
ian
Irish Tropical Fish Society (ITFS) Member.
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09 Oct 2012 17:54 #9
by cichlidheaven (graham wynne)
still on the fence on this topic.
i have stripped malawi's on the basis that there were being bullied ( and due to lack of feeding while holding fry they were in a weakened state) lost a few like this.
there are plenty of video's on youtube showing different idea's and methods of stripping,
i personally have set up a bucket and caught holding female , they have always spat out after a while then just transfer into fry tank,
usually leave mother in tank with them for a few days ( be wary of young first time mothers sometimes they can eat young, rare but does happen).
just a taught on comments about fry learning from there parents, in this day and age i would propably assume mass stripping by breeders that think of output and not parenting skills ( or is that just me being too cinical)
but i would be of the option that nature should take its course. survival of the fittest and best of brood.
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Stripping mouthbrooders...Right or wrong?
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