severums eating eegs

John,
For what it's worth most Cichlids will eat their first few broods of eggs/fry - until they get to realise what's expected of them - tell, me, when you say 'something else' in the tank eats them obviously you have other occupants and these, as you suggest, could well be the culprits...Ancistrus/Plecos can be devils at this task doing 'lights out' raiding parties, I've found that a small light left on over or close to the tank will help as the parents can then see the 'robbers' and hopefully keep them at bay.

Another egg-stealer has to be all sorts of Loaches, but these are not the only ones!

If you have spare tanks it might be worth putting one of your pairs into it for the next spawning and see if that helps...otherwise it's down to removing the eggs on whatever they've been laid on and hatching them artificially, you'll need an airline set to a gentle 'flow' of bubbles to play close to - but not actually over - the eggs and you can then proceed in much the same way as Angel Fish eggs are hatched. But be warned...Severums lay an awful lot of eggs, you'll need a lot of tank space if you have plans on trying to raise the lot!!!

John

Yes, that's right...many, if not most SA Cichlids will move their eggs from the spawning site immediately prior to hatching, there is a good chance that this is what's happened. I would suggest you keep an eye on the fish, they'll give you a good indication of whether they still have eggs/fry or not.

So far as turning off the filter(s) I would advise against this, especially if you can lessen the chance of the fry getting sucked in the intakes by 'masking' them for a while, this will reduce the flow but your biological filtration will still be working, albeit at a lesser rate.

And yes, I think most of the Synodontis Catfish are great egg-stealers, I have four Featherfins which would regularly rob all the Angels' eggs every time, I really felt sorry for the poor Angels, they would put all that effort into cleaning the cone then laying the eggs only to be forced aside and have all that good work undone by the bloody Euruptus!!!

That's good news indeed John.

It's hard to give a particular day when to start feeding them as you won't have known when the eggs were laid or hatched either.

I think observation will be the watchword (sorry...) here - once they are free-swimming and the parents start herding them around will be soon enough to start feeding the fry - don't worry too much if you miss the occasion - they'll always find something to graze upon for a few hours or so. The parents will probably move them at least once more before that time too, especially after the small 'disturbance' and it's not altogether impossible that they might actually eat them - for the same reason, but let's hope they don't.

You might want to get your Brine Shrimp hatching apparatus ready for action!

And if you get youngsters please remember me, they are one of my favourites of the Severum 'varieties'.

John
Sorry, I forgot the all-important postscript...whatever you do keep your newcomers away from the eggs/wrigglers/fry, they'll make very short work of them no matter how diligent the parents try to be at protecting them...

Well John
Progress indeed - I rather feared having removed and then replaced the adults might just have caused them to 'do away' with this brood...wrong again! It just goes to show the imprinted parental instinct these wild and nearly wild fish actually have...

If they're as you describe swimming like tadpoles then I would suggest they aren't ready for feeding yet. It sounds like they're swimming with a 'shimmering' motion in the way tadpoles do, this really gives the idea that they aren't properly free-swimming yet, my definition of free-swimming is when they move around like 'proper' fish do - you will see when that time has come OK. If they were only still 'wrigglers' yesterday then it sounds like it would be at least another two days before this time comes around.

In the meantime by all means 'mask' the filter inlet - tights material is fine but me most vigiland to ensure that the 'mesh' doesn't get fully blocked and cause your filter to slow down, or even worse, stop any sort of flow coming out. You can remedy this by either rinsing the screen out and replacing it - or just replacing it altogether.

I have to say I've never had an enormous success rate with the shelless egs you mention and have heard mixed opinions of the hang-on brineshrimp hatcheries (if it's the one where the shrimps hatch and can swim straight into the tank) but I have never tried one so couldn't possibly comment - I know one or two members have tried them - no doubt one will add their observations in due course. But from your description of the 'hatchery' set up you've done in the meantime it sounds just the ticket. You will need a fine sieve (Hobby make one) or you could just use a (clean) fine meshed handkerchief to get the shrimps from the salt water. A quick rinse then you'll be able to feed them to the fry.
In the meantime you could just add a little 'squeeze' of a sponge filter each day, this will never go amiss and if the adults tolerate you doing it you can certainly do a small(ish) water change daily - increasing as time goes by and they start really eating in earnest.

Good luck with them.

John

Yes John,

Sorry I omitted to say that - I was trying to get it posted in time to still receive an 8 o'clock phone call - failed on both counts!

So yes, from an established filter would be just great, but not altogether essential - the fry would still manage to glean some sustenance from an established tank until you started giving them supplementary feed, I wouldn't offer the crushed flake yet though, gradually add that to their diet as they start to grow.

John

Oh well, John

A sad ending to this round but I'm glad you've accepted it pretty well, with Severums you're bound to get more - and they're sure to get it right one of these times!

Do you have a small tank you might try to raise your rescued fry in? - I'm reluctant to suggest one of those netting 'traps' as, it's been my finding that larger fish will try to 'suck' the fry through the netting, and that always kills them...

It might just be the best idea to 'write off' the few remainders you have this time - sorry if it sounds a bit mercenary but it might well be the easiest plan of action for you.

Just a thought which we hadn't discussed - will you have a rearing tank for when you take the next (hopefully) batch away from the adults? Large Severums tend to have pretty large broods and you should take this into account and perhaps be pretty selective about how many you actually want to raise...

John

John,
For growing-on Cichlid fry the definite requirement is plenty of space so I would suggest the largest tank you can afford/have space for...

This becomes even more crucial with Severums as they aren't exactly one of the smaller species either! I'd be interested to know how large your three pairs are? I have a pair, and some spares, of the Heros Notatus Severums which are around eight or nine inches long now - and they're still growing!!!

Be prepared, yours will spawn again before you know it !!!

Best wishes,

John

Well John,
As you say, here you go again.

Looks like what with the Severums and the \"new addition\" to come you'll have your work cut out, don't worry too much about the fish they can take care of themselves much better than you might expect !!!

Perhaps they'll be more successful this time, I'd suggest you'll be too busy to be looking at them every few minutes soon - so make the most of the time you have to do so while you still can!

Good luck and best wishes (on all counts).

John

11/10 for enthusiasm!!!

John, my inclination would be to hold off resuming large water changes for fear of upsetting the 'status quo' - at least for the moment.

To your BrineShrimps, as Daragh says in an earlier thread they would appear to lose much of their nutritional value after day one so I would feed the ones you have now to your other fish, not sure that adult Severums would bother with them but fish up to and including adult Corys absolutely gorge on them! I reckon you should then start another lot up and, if the fry aren't eating by the time the Shrimps hatch, feed them again to your other fish, keep up this regime until you see the fry 'pecking' around...this will signify that they are now ready to be eating - then start feeding your Brineshrimp, twice, or even three times a day if possible...so you'll be using quite a lot of eggs/shrimps initially.
I usually have two different cultures running at any given time, started on alternate days. That way I use one lot while the next lot are fully hatching (so I'm always using the previous day's hatch - hope this makes sense?).

Best of luck John,

John
As a postscript, I just re-read this and feel it might be a little misleading...I intended to tell you I actually only use a culture once the eggs have been in the water for 48 hours, then next day I use the one started a day after...i.e. once they've been 'wet' for a further 48 hours, having re-started the first one after having used it the previous day...I hope this clarifies things a little better. (well, I knew what I meant - but it was me who was writing it:silly: ).