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Retirement and forum shutdown (17 Jan 2022)
Hi,
John Howell who has managed the forum for years is getting on and wishes to retire from the role of managing it.
Over the years, he has managed the forum through good days and bad days and he has always been fair.
He has managed to bring his passion for fish keeping to the forum and keep it going for so long.
I wish to thank John for his hard work in keeping the forum going.
With John wishing to "retire" from the role of managing the forum and the forum receiving very little traffic, I think we must agree that forum has come to a natural conclusion and it's time to put it to rest.
I am proposing that the forum be made read-only from March 2022 onwards and that no new users or content be created. The website is still registered for several more years, so the content will still be accessible but no new topics or replies will be allowed.
If there is interest from the ITFS or other fish keeping clubs, we may redirect traffic to them or to a Facebook group but will not actively manage it.
I'd like to thank everyone over the years who helped with forum, posted a reply, started a new topic, ask a question and helped a newbie in fish keeping. And thank you to the sponsors who helped us along the away. Hopefully it made the hobby stronger.
I'd especially like to thank John Howell and Valerie Rousseau for all of their contributions, without them the forum would have never been has successful.
Thank you
Darragh Sherwin
Hybrid's
- Buster (Damien Byrne)
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22 Nov 2009 10:39 #1
by Buster (Damien Byrne)
Hybrid's was created by Buster (Damien Byrne)
Since wacker's stock list seems to have ignited everyones passion . I thought i'd throw this out their for discussion. I was jus wondering what people's views are? Also bearing in mind that to a relative new cichlid fish keeper might have inadvertly put together a pair resultin in a hybrid . What would they do in your opinion? ? ?
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- convict84 (sean farrell)
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22 Nov 2009 17:05 #2
by convict84 (sean farrell)
Replied by convict84 (sean farrell) on topic Re:Hybrid's
imo they should not be breed or stocked in shops,there just not meant to be!
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- platty252 (Darren Dalton)
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23 Nov 2009 00:14 - 23 Nov 2009 00:14 #3
by platty252 (Darren Dalton)
Replied by platty252 (Darren Dalton) on topic Re:Hybrid's
Like most people i am against hybrids to a certain degree. There was a time i wouldn't go into a shop if they stocked hybrids or at least what i considered hybrids.
I think the only way to get this tread going is if someone was to take the side in favour of hybrids. I can think of loads of reasons why i dont like hybrids but i can think of some reasons why i like some of them.
All i ask is anyone posting against hybrids post a brief list of the fish they keep.
I love hybrids
P.S. i am only taking the side in favour of hybrids to spark some debate.
I think the only way to get this tread going is if someone was to take the side in favour of hybrids. I can think of loads of reasons why i dont like hybrids but i can think of some reasons why i like some of them.
All i ask is anyone posting against hybrids post a brief list of the fish they keep.
I love hybrids
P.S. i am only taking the side in favour of hybrids to spark some debate.
Last edit: 23 Nov 2009 00:14 by platty252 (Darren Dalton).
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- gardoyle27 (Gareth Doyle)
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23 Nov 2009 00:35 #4
by gardoyle27 (Gareth Doyle)
Replied by gardoyle27 (Gareth Doyle) on topic Re:Hybrid's
i don't mind if a keeper happens to have a mixed species tank and by chance gets hybrids, i have had this happen to me with a male red top hongi and a female red zebra, how ever i would not sell them on nor would i try breed them either. if it happens it happens but as live stock breeders supplying fish to the trade i think that fish species should be kept as pure as possible. the reason for this is that i have been in lfs and ask whats this and whats that and getting a spot on ID on a fish can be hard unless it is really common, could you imagine what it would be like with hybrids???? the offspring of the two above all looked like red zebra's which i could very easily sell on as red zebra's and not hybrids which is terrible if someone was looking to breed them seriously.
kind of contradicting myself a little lol but hybrids in lfs is a no for me
kind of contradicting myself a little lol but hybrids in lfs is a no for me
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- Buster (Damien Byrne)
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23 Nov 2009 08:00 #5
by Buster (Damien Byrne)
Replied by Buster (Damien Byrne) on topic Re:Hybrid's
some good points their . But is hybridisation in the wild how we get so many different and new species? I'm not to up on this subject as a few others on the forum but they might imput some of their knowledge.
I personally don't thinks there's any problem with them as long as if someone is selling them or giving them away is up front about it then its your own preference from there.
I'm on the fence
I personally don't thinks there's any problem with them as long as if someone is selling them or giving them away is up front about it then its your own preference from there.
I'm on the fence
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- sheag35 (Seamus Gillespie)
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23 Nov 2009 10:46 #6
by sheag35 (Seamus Gillespie)
Fishkeeping the Only way to get wet and wild
currently 25 tanks, and breeding is the aim of everything i keep
location:Limerick
Replied by sheag35 (Seamus Gillespie) on topic Re:Hybrid's
imo hybrids can be beautiful fish but should NOT be deliberately hybred, sold on as true breeds or bred further from, saying that they can be beautiful show fish, as for busters question hybrids can happen in the wild but are very rare due to availability of suitable mates of the same species and generally similar species would not enter each others territory to breed as each fish species would have its own niche in the vastness of these lakes and generally stay in the same location which is why some species are sold with variant names ( where they where caught such as lab. caerulus as in this link malawicichlids.com/mw09001j.htm ) and because of diet look slightly different. hope this might clear that up for you Buster
Fishkeeping the Only way to get wet and wild
currently 25 tanks, and breeding is the aim of everything i keep
location:Limerick
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- Ian (Anthony Ramirez)
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23 Nov 2009 12:50 - 23 Nov 2009 12:53 #7
by Ian (Anthony Ramirez)
Fishkeeping CV: Co-founded, 1st President of the only surviving Fishkeeping Club (Accredited by Dept. of Fisheries) in the Philippines (mypalhs.com). I have mostly reared tropicals - Arowanas and monster fishes. My oldest arowana is 13years old (died in a tropical storm). Ive since reared a Black,...
Replied by Ian (Anthony Ramirez) on topic Re:Hybrid's
sheag35 wrote:
There is definitely artistic value with hybrid fish. Most of the beautiful strains of Asian arowanas that are sold today in most of Asia esp Japan are crosses between pure strains. Flowerhorns in Asia are widely sought after fish. I would admit to the fact that I've organized a fishclub with this in mind and we are aware of the issues with dyeing fish and all sort of operations and that is not in the hybrid category. So really for me and IMO honest opinion it all depends on the hobbyist. As said before so one should sell hybrids as pure breeds and whoever buys them knows what they are getting. Asian arowanas anyway are hard to breed at home and you need millions to set up a brooding stock with a big lot. So you end up with the breeding of cichlids or flowerhorns among themselves - and i never inter bred cichlids just flowerhorns. I have culled many fries in my early years of breeding Fhs and thats because I wouldn't want to sell them and to put in in hobbyist tanks because of its quality etc etc. So in the end its up to the hobbyist preferences.
imo hybrids can be beautiful fish but should NOT be deliberately hybred, sold on as true breeds or bred further from, saying that they can be beautiful show fish, as for busters question hybrids can happen in the wild but are very rare due to availability of suitable mates of the same species and generally similar species would not enter each others territory to breed as each fish species would have its own niche in the vastness of these lakes and generally stay in the same location which is why some species are sold with variant names ( where they where caught such as lab. caerulus as in this link malawicichlids.com/mw09001j.htm ) and because of diet look slightly different. hope this might clear that up for you Buster
There is definitely artistic value with hybrid fish. Most of the beautiful strains of Asian arowanas that are sold today in most of Asia esp Japan are crosses between pure strains. Flowerhorns in Asia are widely sought after fish. I would admit to the fact that I've organized a fishclub with this in mind and we are aware of the issues with dyeing fish and all sort of operations and that is not in the hybrid category. So really for me and IMO honest opinion it all depends on the hobbyist. As said before so one should sell hybrids as pure breeds and whoever buys them knows what they are getting. Asian arowanas anyway are hard to breed at home and you need millions to set up a brooding stock with a big lot. So you end up with the breeding of cichlids or flowerhorns among themselves - and i never inter bred cichlids just flowerhorns. I have culled many fries in my early years of breeding Fhs and thats because I wouldn't want to sell them and to put in in hobbyist tanks because of its quality etc etc. So in the end its up to the hobbyist preferences.
Fishkeeping CV: Co-founded, 1st President of the only surviving Fishkeeping Club (Accredited by Dept. of Fisheries) in the Philippines (mypalhs.com). I have mostly reared tropicals - Arowanas and monster fishes. My oldest arowana is 13years old (died in a tropical storm). Ive since reared a Black,...
Last edit: 23 Nov 2009 12:53 by Ian (Anthony Ramirez).
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23 Nov 2009 13:10 #8
by mickeywallace (Michael Wallace Cath Woods)
Mickey Wallace & Cath Woods
Replied by mickeywallace (Michael Wallace Cath Woods) on topic Re:Hybrid's
(sorry about spelling)
Hybrids and new species plus the loss of current species are a thing of the future. planned hydro dams will bring the demise of some and hybrids of currently seperated species and those to slow to adapt will be lost.
but we should also remember that current species have been developing for thousands of years and will continue to do so.
if one takes for example Astyanax mexicanus born with eyes which then disappear. if they are bread in tanks with lights after a few generations the eyes no longer disappear nature returns to it orignal form.
out side of fish keeping one of the most interesting hybrids i have heard of is the polar bear /grizzly hybrid which was discovered
a few simple rules should be observed
no forms should be kept that cause unnessarry suffering due to psycial defect for example
new strains should be recorded as new strains thus giving the choice which path the indivual wants to follow
the use of chemicals to cross species stopped
other things that should be considered we tend to have a standard that describe, it is what we chose not neccassrly as nature intended
enforcing purity to strickly could equaly lead to the demise of the species as protect as it may curtail natural progression of the species.
Mickey
Hybrids and new species plus the loss of current species are a thing of the future. planned hydro dams will bring the demise of some and hybrids of currently seperated species and those to slow to adapt will be lost.
but we should also remember that current species have been developing for thousands of years and will continue to do so.
if one takes for example Astyanax mexicanus born with eyes which then disappear. if they are bread in tanks with lights after a few generations the eyes no longer disappear nature returns to it orignal form.
out side of fish keeping one of the most interesting hybrids i have heard of is the polar bear /grizzly hybrid which was discovered
a few simple rules should be observed
no forms should be kept that cause unnessarry suffering due to psycial defect for example
new strains should be recorded as new strains thus giving the choice which path the indivual wants to follow
the use of chemicals to cross species stopped
other things that should be considered we tend to have a standard that describe, it is what we chose not neccassrly as nature intended
enforcing purity to strickly could equaly lead to the demise of the species as protect as it may curtail natural progression of the species.
Mickey
Mickey Wallace & Cath Woods
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- sheag35 (Seamus Gillespie)
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23 Nov 2009 14:17 #9
by sheag35 (Seamus Gillespie)
Fishkeeping the Only way to get wet and wild
currently 25 tanks, and breeding is the aim of everything i keep
location:Limerick
Replied by sheag35 (Seamus Gillespie) on topic Re:Hybrid's
hear hear mickey well said
Fishkeeping the Only way to get wet and wild
currently 25 tanks, and breeding is the aim of everything i keep
location:Limerick
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23 Nov 2009 17:42 #10
by mickeywallace (Michael Wallace Cath Woods)
Mickey Wallace & Cath Woods
Replied by mickeywallace (Michael Wallace Cath Woods) on topic Re:Hybrid's
sheag35 wrote:
cheers She
it is a sad fact, in the past that the cost of importing fish created the need for hybrids so we could have variety! The modern guppy, the London and bristol Shubunkins once most popular being prime examples.
today with global warming loss of habit etc we are seeing an end to the golden age of the hobby! As more and more fish will face export bans or worse extinction.
I am not for or against hybrids but i don't want to be part of the cause of some fish becoming extinct either. thus we must except hybrids not as a villian but as a protector of wild populations by the fact they reduce the pressure on wild stock. there are many fish i would love to own but can't but i can if i so choose go see them in their natural habitat but for how long???????
As long as hybrids stay in our aquariums only, then there is a place for them.
perhaps the real question should be what we can do to ensure there are always pure breed wild caught fish available rather than complaing about fish types being no longer available.
Mickey
hear hear mickey well said
cheers She
it is a sad fact, in the past that the cost of importing fish created the need for hybrids so we could have variety! The modern guppy, the London and bristol Shubunkins once most popular being prime examples.
today with global warming loss of habit etc we are seeing an end to the golden age of the hobby! As more and more fish will face export bans or worse extinction.
I am not for or against hybrids but i don't want to be part of the cause of some fish becoming extinct either. thus we must except hybrids not as a villian but as a protector of wild populations by the fact they reduce the pressure on wild stock. there are many fish i would love to own but can't but i can if i so choose go see them in their natural habitat but for how long???????
As long as hybrids stay in our aquariums only, then there is a place for them.
perhaps the real question should be what we can do to ensure there are always pure breed wild caught fish available rather than complaing about fish types being no longer available.
Mickey
Mickey Wallace & Cath Woods
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- derek (Derek Doyle)
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23 Nov 2009 19:46 #11
by derek (Derek Doyle)
30 tanks specialise in african cichlids, angelfish and various catfish
Replied by derek (Derek Doyle) on topic Re:Hybrid's
am i against all hybrids and inbreeding. no, there is probably good and bad.
am i against hormone feeding. yes. i can only see this as bad for the fish and the hobby.
hybrids are here to stay. all the colourful swordtails in the hobby were created by an original crossing with platys to get red colouration into an otherwise plain greeny fish. virtually all common ancistris are probably hybrids. most aulonacaras nowadays are crossbred, mostly with other aulonacara but also with certain mbuna and protomelas etc.
fancy goldfish, guppies, discus and angel colour strains etc. are selectively linebred and often inbred over numerous generations, concentrating on minor colour spots or mutations to create the vast range of shapes and colours we see today.
most of these hybrids and linebreds/inbreds are accepted and welcomed in the hobby and create interest and take the pressure off wild stocks. also mongrels as with dogs are usually hardier than pure strains.
the worst fish for unplanned crossbreeding in the aquarium are cichlid species, esp. the rifts
most of the fish we regard as seperate species are probably geographical variants or sub species and therfore will cross readily in the confines of the aquarium. so to avoid unwanted crosses dont keep closely related species together.
am i against hormone feeding. yes. i can only see this as bad for the fish and the hobby.
hybrids are here to stay. all the colourful swordtails in the hobby were created by an original crossing with platys to get red colouration into an otherwise plain greeny fish. virtually all common ancistris are probably hybrids. most aulonacaras nowadays are crossbred, mostly with other aulonacara but also with certain mbuna and protomelas etc.
fancy goldfish, guppies, discus and angel colour strains etc. are selectively linebred and often inbred over numerous generations, concentrating on minor colour spots or mutations to create the vast range of shapes and colours we see today.
most of these hybrids and linebreds/inbreds are accepted and welcomed in the hobby and create interest and take the pressure off wild stocks. also mongrels as with dogs are usually hardier than pure strains.
the worst fish for unplanned crossbreeding in the aquarium are cichlid species, esp. the rifts
most of the fish we regard as seperate species are probably geographical variants or sub species and therfore will cross readily in the confines of the aquarium. so to avoid unwanted crosses dont keep closely related species together.
30 tanks specialise in african cichlids, angelfish and various catfish
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- sheag35 (Seamus Gillespie)
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23 Nov 2009 19:53 #12
by sheag35 (Seamus Gillespie)
Fishkeeping the Only way to get wet and wild
currently 25 tanks, and breeding is the aim of everything i keep
location:Limerick
Replied by sheag35 (Seamus Gillespie) on topic Re:Hybrid's
perfectly put across Derek, better said than i portrayed it
Fishkeeping the Only way to get wet and wild
currently 25 tanks, and breeding is the aim of everything i keep
location:Limerick
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- Buster (Damien Byrne)
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23 Nov 2009 21:10 #13
by Buster (Damien Byrne)
Replied by Buster (Damien Byrne) on topic Re:Hybrid's
Thanks for that insight derek ! Would it be fair to say allot of fish keepers who would be opposed to hybrids ! Would have a good chance of having a hybrid in their tank? As you have also said mongrel's are often stronger ! Would you not believe selective imbreeding would help strengthen the species ! Possibly saving a species by doing so ! I know in cheetah's they could do with some new blood as there lineage is full of incest which could effectively be their undoing!
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- dubfish (Alan Martin)
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23 Nov 2009 21:34 - 23 Nov 2009 21:36 #14
by dubfish (Alan Martin)
Regards Alan..
Replied by dubfish (Alan Martin) on topic Re:Hybrid's
A recent thread on a well known(US)forum,this guy had a Tang community consisting of ..
1 Neolamprologus leleupi
1 Neolamprologus brichardi(daffodil)and a few shell dwellers,the leleupi and brichardi paired off and spawned.This was a first for me to see this,as i have several of both of these species in a tang community together.I will be keeping an eye on both after seen this,these are the guys fish and hybrids
1 Neolamprologus leleupi
1 Neolamprologus brichardi(daffodil)and a few shell dwellers,the leleupi and brichardi paired off and spawned.This was a first for me to see this,as i have several of both of these species in a tang community together.I will be keeping an eye on both after seen this,these are the guys fish and hybrids
Regards Alan..
Last edit: 23 Nov 2009 21:36 by dubfish (Alan Martin).
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- dubfish (Alan Martin)
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23 Nov 2009 21:42 - 23 Nov 2009 21:43 #15
by dubfish (Alan Martin)
Regards Alan..
Replied by dubfish (Alan Martin) on topic Re:Hybrid's
Sorry more pics of these odd pair
Regards Alan..
Last edit: 23 Nov 2009 21:43 by dubfish (Alan Martin).
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- dubfish (Alan Martin)
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23 Nov 2009 21:46 #16
by dubfish (Alan Martin)
Regards Alan..
Replied by dubfish (Alan Martin) on topic Re:Hybrid's
Sorry only getting used to loading pics:blush:
Regards Alan..
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- arabesque (Mick Veale)
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24 Nov 2009 10:05 #17
by arabesque (Mick Veale)
Replied by arabesque (Mick Veale) on topic Re:Hybrid's
dubfish wrote:
This happened back in the day in the FishFX tang display tank at the back of the shop
Both brichardi and leleupi guarded the fry as best they could. thankfully there was a nice
big black calvus in the tank.
the leleupi and brichardi paired off and spawned.
This happened back in the day in the FishFX tang display tank at the back of the shop
Both brichardi and leleupi guarded the fry as best they could. thankfully there was a nice
big black calvus in the tank.
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- alkiely (alan kiely)
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24 Nov 2009 10:15 #18
by alkiely (alan kiely)
Replied by alkiely (alan kiely) on topic Re:Hybrid's
I can see both sides, if it happens in ur own tank well thats nature and once its not for commerical sales throughout shops well im ok with it.
But when its done just to create a new fish well i against that 100%
Sure its natures way of creating different types of fish spieces.....?
Was watching the nature doc on it and isnt that how we have so many different types of fish...?
Alan
But when its done just to create a new fish well i against that 100%
Sure its natures way of creating different types of fish spieces.....?
Was watching the nature doc on it and isnt that how we have so many different types of fish...?
Alan
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- Buster (Damien Byrne)
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24 Nov 2009 13:25 #19
by Buster (Damien Byrne)
Replied by Buster (Damien Byrne) on topic Re:Hybrid's
alkiely wrote:
This is what I thought especially since there is so many similar looking species.
Sure its natures way of creating different types of fish spieces.....?
Was watching the nature doc on it and isnt that how we have so many different types of fish...?
Alan
This is what I thought especially since there is so many similar looking species.
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- 2poc (2poc)
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24 Nov 2009 13:47 - 24 Nov 2009 13:47 #20
by 2poc (2poc)
Replied by 2poc (2poc) on topic Re:Hybrid's
Buster wrote:
Its not nature though, it happens in the confines of an aquarium where there is a limited choice of partner & no escape for females being harrassed by dominant males... In nature hybrids are extremely rare.
alkiely wrote:
Sure its natures way of creating different types of fish spieces.....?
Was watching the nature doc on it and isnt that how we have so many different types of fish...?
Alan
This is what I thought especially since there is so many similar looking species.
Its not nature though, it happens in the confines of an aquarium where there is a limited choice of partner & no escape for females being harrassed by dominant males... In nature hybrids are extremely rare.
Last edit: 24 Nov 2009 13:47 by 2poc (2poc).
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- Jaffacakehead (John McPartland)
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24 Nov 2009 17:38 #21
by Jaffacakehead (John McPartland)
Replied by Jaffacakehead (John McPartland) on topic Re:Hybrid's
Being so territorial and such great parents it has to be unusual for cichlids to hybridize in the wild.
This would probably not be the case with egg scattering fish who could chose the same patch of weeds as other egg scatterers.
This definitely happens in our lakes, rivers and canals where there is roach/bream, rudd/roach, rudd/bream etc.
African cichlids are all descended from only a few species but their diversity is a result of evolution and survival of the fittest rather than hybridization. It is because of this common ancestory that they can hybridize in the aquarium.
As for the ethics of it. I'm undecided. As long as you know its a hybrid when you buy it then I suppose its ok.
This would probably not be the case with egg scattering fish who could chose the same patch of weeds as other egg scatterers.
This definitely happens in our lakes, rivers and canals where there is roach/bream, rudd/roach, rudd/bream etc.
African cichlids are all descended from only a few species but their diversity is a result of evolution and survival of the fittest rather than hybridization. It is because of this common ancestory that they can hybridize in the aquarium.
As for the ethics of it. I'm undecided. As long as you know its a hybrid when you buy it then I suppose its ok.
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- derek (Derek Doyle)
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24 Nov 2009 17:41 #22
by derek (Derek Doyle)
30 tanks specialise in african cichlids, angelfish and various catfish
Replied by derek (Derek Doyle) on topic Re:Hybrid's
2poc wrote:
Its not nature though, it happens in the confines of an aquarium where there is a limited choice of partner & no escape for females being harrassed by dominant males... In nature hybrids are extremely rare.[/quote]
i agree and as far as possible we fishkeepers should try to avoid rearing hybrid fish.
anyway most hybrids are not as attractive as either parent and can be more aggressive.
unlike substrate spawning brichardi/leleupi type situations, in a mixed malawi mouthbrooder tank, it is almost impossible to detect mongrel spawnings till the resulting fry grow a bit. and even then similar species such as the reddish salosi, estherae, johanni, msobo have to be almost adult to id accurately unless you are very experienced.
Its not nature though, it happens in the confines of an aquarium where there is a limited choice of partner & no escape for females being harrassed by dominant males... In nature hybrids are extremely rare.[/quote]
i agree and as far as possible we fishkeepers should try to avoid rearing hybrid fish.
anyway most hybrids are not as attractive as either parent and can be more aggressive.
unlike substrate spawning brichardi/leleupi type situations, in a mixed malawi mouthbrooder tank, it is almost impossible to detect mongrel spawnings till the resulting fry grow a bit. and even then similar species such as the reddish salosi, estherae, johanni, msobo have to be almost adult to id accurately unless you are very experienced.
30 tanks specialise in african cichlids, angelfish and various catfish
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- Buster (Damien Byrne)
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24 Nov 2009 20:53 #23
by Buster (Damien Byrne)
Replied by Buster (Damien Byrne) on topic Re:Hybrid's
So would it be more human in the long run to cull known hybrids as young as possible like deformed fry? I don't know if i would personally but i'd imagine i'd leave them in the main tank and if they survive let them be as i wouldn't say you'd shift them on too easy
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- derek (Derek Doyle)
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24 Nov 2009 22:09 #24
by derek (Derek Doyle)
30 tanks specialise in african cichlids, angelfish and various catfish
Replied by derek (Derek Doyle) on topic Re:Hybrid's
it is difficult to have a definitive answer to the whole hybrid question but hybrids are the plague of the malawi part of the hobby.
my view would be to try to keep strains as pure as possible but without becoming too obsessive.
without actually witnessing the mating most of us would'nt know the difference anyway as fry can often start out very different looking than the eventual adult form.
to broaden the topic.
in the hobby we also have chronically inbred tanganyikans and south and central americans which are an even bigger problem as this leads to deformed and weak fish.
strangely enough malawis are not as prone as the tangs to bad shape or weakness as a result of inbreeding.
my view would be to try to keep strains as pure as possible but without becoming too obsessive.
without actually witnessing the mating most of us would'nt know the difference anyway as fry can often start out very different looking than the eventual adult form.
to broaden the topic.
in the hobby we also have chronically inbred tanganyikans and south and central americans which are an even bigger problem as this leads to deformed and weak fish.
strangely enough malawis are not as prone as the tangs to bad shape or weakness as a result of inbreeding.
30 tanks specialise in african cichlids, angelfish and various catfish
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- Buster (Damien Byrne)
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24 Nov 2009 22:39 #25
by Buster (Damien Byrne)
Replied by Buster (Damien Byrne) on topic Re:Hybrid's
Thanks for your reply derek ! I suppose my original question has been well and truly answered at this stage .
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- sheag35 (Seamus Gillespie)
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25 Nov 2009 00:20 #26
by sheag35 (Seamus Gillespie)
Fishkeeping the Only way to get wet and wild
currently 25 tanks, and breeding is the aim of everything i keep
location:Limerick
Replied by sheag35 (Seamus Gillespie) on topic Re:Hybrid's
hope so 
Fishkeeping the Only way to get wet and wild
currently 25 tanks, and breeding is the aim of everything i keep
location:Limerick
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- reefpaddy (paddy kelly)
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25 Nov 2009 22:04 #27
by reefpaddy (paddy kelly)
Replied by reefpaddy (paddy kelly) on topic Re:Hybrid's
have to say guys, this was a really intresting tread, that i really enjoyed and learned a bit too, without the usuall bxxxsxxx that goes along with this subject. well done all:)
thanks
thanks
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