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Retirement and forum shutdown (17 Jan 2022)
Hi,
John Howell who has managed the forum for years is getting on and wishes to retire from the role of managing it.
Over the years, he has managed the forum through good days and bad days and he has always been fair.
He has managed to bring his passion for fish keeping to the forum and keep it going for so long.
I wish to thank John for his hard work in keeping the forum going.
With John wishing to "retire" from the role of managing the forum and the forum receiving very little traffic, I think we must agree that forum has come to a natural conclusion and it's time to put it to rest.
I am proposing that the forum be made read-only from March 2022 onwards and that no new users or content be created. The website is still registered for several more years, so the content will still be accessible but no new topics or replies will be allowed.
If there is interest from the ITFS or other fish keeping clubs, we may redirect traffic to them or to a Facebook group but will not actively manage it.
I'd like to thank everyone over the years who helped with forum, posted a reply, started a new topic, ask a question and helped a newbie in fish keeping. And thank you to the sponsors who helped us along the away. Hopefully it made the hobby stronger.
I'd especially like to thank John Howell and Valerie Rousseau for all of their contributions, without them the forum would have never been has successful.
Thank you
Darragh Sherwin
nothobranchius eggersi red eggs
08 Feb 2010 01:32 - 09 Feb 2010 00:20 #13
by platty252 (Darren Dalton)
Replied by platty252 (Darren Dalton) on topic Re:nothobranchius eggersi red eggs
You have been given great advice so far so i can only add to it.
Hopefully you got the eggs from a reliable source. IMO some of the sellers sell bags of peat with no eggs.
I have gone through many a bag to find no eggs at all.
If the eggs are in peat i would place them in about 2-3" of water at room temperature. Or if the eggs have been kept at room temperature the water should be slightly cooler. As in nature the rain would be cooler than the hot African soil.
Once you add the peat/eggs give it a stir to break up the peat. You may have to break some of it up with your fingers. Don't worry about damaging the eggs, they are like bullets at this stage. Any peat that stays floating can be removed.
I would stir the peat occasionally and keep checking for fry.
I find acidic water is best for hatching. It seems to soften the eggs a bit helping the fry get out of the egg which can be a problem. More about that later.
I use a second container with the same water depth and temp but the water is slightly harder. Using 1 tbs. of salt (marine or rock salt) per gallon will do and you can keep the Notho's in this concentration of water. A lot of people beleave this prevents disease in Notho's (Velvet) but i have never had any trouble without salt.
Make up a gallon or so of this water and keep aerated. You will use this water for water changes in the first week or so.
If the eggs are not in peat place them in water the same as above.
In the video John showed you will see the fry in the eggs. In particular the eyes. This is known as "eye up" where you can see the eyes.
It is only then that the eggs are ready to hatch, but for your first try wet them on the suggested date regardless.
If the eye is not visible (chances are you wont even see the eggs) and they are not ready to hatch i beleave this first wetting triggers some of the fry (not all)to develop.
IME the fry can start to hatch from 10 minutes to 24 hours. Once 24 hours has passed i would dry out the peat (leave it damp) and store for another 5-7 days before wetting again.
If the fry start to hatch they will pop out of the eggs and hit the surface before returning to the peat. Some will return to the surface swimming. These can be collected with a spoon or pipette and transferred to the second container.
The ones that stay down in the peat are harder to collect. I use low light shinning in the side of a clear container. The light catches the fishes eyes making them stand out. Like what you will see in the vid John posted.
As john mentioned oxygen is important when hatching. But you cant go sticking an airstone in or you wont find the fry. I heavily aerate the water i hatch the eggs in beforehand.
The oxygen tabs John mentions are the ones you get for goldfish bowls. I have never used them for hatching but i'm sure they would work just fine. It is worth mentioning that these are Hydrogen peroxide. As it decomposes it forms oxygen.
You can only oxygenate water this way once. You must change all the water if you want to use these tabs again. Something it dosent tell you on the packaging. But i cant remember why.
Oxygen is important for the fish to fill there swill bladder otherwise they will become what is known as belly sliders. With an empty swim bladder they have no buoyancy and will spend there days on the bottom of the tank. That's if they survive.
In the vid. you will notice the first fry to hatch did an immediate dart to the surface. This i beleave is when they fill there swim bladder and this is why you hatch them in shallow water. But there are many different theory's about this.
Once you have collected and transferred the fry i would keep them in this tub/container for the first week changing a large portion of the water every day. I use a drip and overflow method for this. I will post a video bellow.
If i dont use the drip method for changing water i add an air stone just at the surface of the water. You dont want to create a current, just enough to break the surface.
I use no filtration in the tubs and a snail or two will help clean the tub. Leaving all the waste in little piles making it easy to remove.
When transferring them to larger quarters you cant just transfer the fry to deeper water. This needs to be done gradually. After the first week start to increase the depth by about 2" over a weeks period. You can then slowly increase the depth a little every day reaching 8-12" after a month.
As mentioned by Derek the fry need live food. If it dosent move it is not food. That includes there siblings. You may have to remove any fry that shoot ahead or they will eat there brothers and sisters.
Infusoria, microworms and even brine shrimp as first food. Yes the fry are large enough to take brine, or at least there mouth is. You will know what i mean once they hatch.
But you need to very there first food. I have read before that feeding only brine shrimp to the fry can result in more males than females. But i dont know how true this is.
In the wild they will pick at food all day long and this should be replicated in the aquarium. This is were microworms come in handy. IME they can stay alive in water for more than 7 days. Just keep a small amount on the base of the tank.
The fry will grow very, very quickly. They will colour up in a couple of weeks and while your thinking to yourself the fry are growing well they are thinking i need to reproduce. They are like grumpy old men on Viagra.
All they seem to care about is food, showing everyone they are the boss and reproducing.
As Derek once said to me "Killifish are born old" I laughed then as i am laughing now. But it's through. Notho's are short lived (about 6 months)and develop at the speed of light. Ok slight exaggeration but only slightly.
Once they are in a proper tank it is fine to keep a large group together. The aggression amongst the males is spread out and seldom is one male isolated and picked on.
If you thin out the amount and get down to just 2-3 males then the aggression is not spread out enough and they will often fight causing serious damage to each other.
Always keep a minimum of 2-3 females to each male. The males drive the females very hard to the point that the stress can kill them.
I would set the tank up with low light, some plants etc. for the fish to hide amongst, a sponge or box filter (almost stagnant water) and a dark substrate. The tank needs to be shaded or slightly dark for them to look there best. They will also be out more than in a bright tank.
Temperature should be about 24c. Don't go to high with the temp or you will shorten there life dramatically.
PH around neutral and the hardness can vary. When it rains and the pools fill up the water starts off soft, but once the water starts to evaporate and the size of the pools decrease the mineral content stays the same with the water getting harder the less water there is.
IMO all killifish should be fed live food at least twice a week. Every day would be better. If they are just fed prepared food's they wont be as active or as good looking. You just wont get the best out of them.
There are a couple of tricks you can use to try hatch the eggs.
When the peat and eggs are in water get a straw and gently blow in to the water. The carbon dioxide you exhale has an effect on the eggs causing them to hatch. This really works.
Or place the hatching tub in another tub of water. Aerate the outer tub. This causes a vibration that can stimulate the eggs to hatch.
If the eggs are not in peat and you can see the fry wiggling trying to hatch you can add microworms to the water. The worms work there way in to the egg causing fractures to the outer egg allowing the fry to hatch. Don't do this unless the fry are ready to hatch or the worms will start to feed of the fry.
Of you can roll the eggs between your fingers. If they are soft you can just pop them like a pea releasing he fry.
I should mention the fry dont have eggsacs so they will need feeding shortly after hatching. A few micro worms in the rearing tub will do. It is also handy to have some javamoss in there. They will feed of the microorganisms living on it.
Here is a short video of how my drip and overflow tubs work.
This is not the actual tubs i use, they are buried at the moment but you get the idea.
The top tub is filled with fresh water. There is a hole with some wool sticking through it. The wool goes right down to the bottom of the top tub and stops short of the tub below.
This will draw fresh water down dripping in to the second tub were the fry are.
The tub with the fry also has some wool sticking through a hole but it only goes below the water line. If it was to go all the way in to the tub it could rain it completely killing the fry.
The tub on the bottom collects the waste water.
This is a slow water change all day long and the drops help aerate the water slightly.
I have tried placing infusoria in the top tub for a constant food supply but it didn't work very well. Only a small amount of infusoria was drawn in to the tub were the fry were.
I used to stack these about six high with various sized fry in the different tubs to prevent cannibalism.
I hope this is not information overload and you get something out of it.
Darren.
Hopefully you got the eggs from a reliable source. IMO some of the sellers sell bags of peat with no eggs.
I have gone through many a bag to find no eggs at all.
If the eggs are in peat i would place them in about 2-3" of water at room temperature. Or if the eggs have been kept at room temperature the water should be slightly cooler. As in nature the rain would be cooler than the hot African soil.
Once you add the peat/eggs give it a stir to break up the peat. You may have to break some of it up with your fingers. Don't worry about damaging the eggs, they are like bullets at this stage. Any peat that stays floating can be removed.
I would stir the peat occasionally and keep checking for fry.
I find acidic water is best for hatching. It seems to soften the eggs a bit helping the fry get out of the egg which can be a problem. More about that later.
I use a second container with the same water depth and temp but the water is slightly harder. Using 1 tbs. of salt (marine or rock salt) per gallon will do and you can keep the Notho's in this concentration of water. A lot of people beleave this prevents disease in Notho's (Velvet) but i have never had any trouble without salt.
Make up a gallon or so of this water and keep aerated. You will use this water for water changes in the first week or so.
If the eggs are not in peat place them in water the same as above.
In the video John showed you will see the fry in the eggs. In particular the eyes. This is known as "eye up" where you can see the eyes.
It is only then that the eggs are ready to hatch, but for your first try wet them on the suggested date regardless.
If the eye is not visible (chances are you wont even see the eggs) and they are not ready to hatch i beleave this first wetting triggers some of the fry (not all)to develop.
IME the fry can start to hatch from 10 minutes to 24 hours. Once 24 hours has passed i would dry out the peat (leave it damp) and store for another 5-7 days before wetting again.
If the fry start to hatch they will pop out of the eggs and hit the surface before returning to the peat. Some will return to the surface swimming. These can be collected with a spoon or pipette and transferred to the second container.
The ones that stay down in the peat are harder to collect. I use low light shinning in the side of a clear container. The light catches the fishes eyes making them stand out. Like what you will see in the vid John posted.
As john mentioned oxygen is important when hatching. But you cant go sticking an airstone in or you wont find the fry. I heavily aerate the water i hatch the eggs in beforehand.
The oxygen tabs John mentions are the ones you get for goldfish bowls. I have never used them for hatching but i'm sure they would work just fine. It is worth mentioning that these are Hydrogen peroxide. As it decomposes it forms oxygen.
You can only oxygenate water this way once. You must change all the water if you want to use these tabs again. Something it dosent tell you on the packaging. But i cant remember why.
Oxygen is important for the fish to fill there swill bladder otherwise they will become what is known as belly sliders. With an empty swim bladder they have no buoyancy and will spend there days on the bottom of the tank. That's if they survive.
In the vid. you will notice the first fry to hatch did an immediate dart to the surface. This i beleave is when they fill there swim bladder and this is why you hatch them in shallow water. But there are many different theory's about this.
Once you have collected and transferred the fry i would keep them in this tub/container for the first week changing a large portion of the water every day. I use a drip and overflow method for this. I will post a video bellow.
If i dont use the drip method for changing water i add an air stone just at the surface of the water. You dont want to create a current, just enough to break the surface.
I use no filtration in the tubs and a snail or two will help clean the tub. Leaving all the waste in little piles making it easy to remove.
When transferring them to larger quarters you cant just transfer the fry to deeper water. This needs to be done gradually. After the first week start to increase the depth by about 2" over a weeks period. You can then slowly increase the depth a little every day reaching 8-12" after a month.
As mentioned by Derek the fry need live food. If it dosent move it is not food. That includes there siblings. You may have to remove any fry that shoot ahead or they will eat there brothers and sisters.
Infusoria, microworms and even brine shrimp as first food. Yes the fry are large enough to take brine, or at least there mouth is. You will know what i mean once they hatch.
But you need to very there first food. I have read before that feeding only brine shrimp to the fry can result in more males than females. But i dont know how true this is.
In the wild they will pick at food all day long and this should be replicated in the aquarium. This is were microworms come in handy. IME they can stay alive in water for more than 7 days. Just keep a small amount on the base of the tank.
The fry will grow very, very quickly. They will colour up in a couple of weeks and while your thinking to yourself the fry are growing well they are thinking i need to reproduce. They are like grumpy old men on Viagra.
All they seem to care about is food, showing everyone they are the boss and reproducing.
As Derek once said to me "Killifish are born old" I laughed then as i am laughing now. But it's through. Notho's are short lived (about 6 months)and develop at the speed of light. Ok slight exaggeration but only slightly.
Once they are in a proper tank it is fine to keep a large group together. The aggression amongst the males is spread out and seldom is one male isolated and picked on.
If you thin out the amount and get down to just 2-3 males then the aggression is not spread out enough and they will often fight causing serious damage to each other.
Always keep a minimum of 2-3 females to each male. The males drive the females very hard to the point that the stress can kill them.
I would set the tank up with low light, some plants etc. for the fish to hide amongst, a sponge or box filter (almost stagnant water) and a dark substrate. The tank needs to be shaded or slightly dark for them to look there best. They will also be out more than in a bright tank.
Temperature should be about 24c. Don't go to high with the temp or you will shorten there life dramatically.
PH around neutral and the hardness can vary. When it rains and the pools fill up the water starts off soft, but once the water starts to evaporate and the size of the pools decrease the mineral content stays the same with the water getting harder the less water there is.
IMO all killifish should be fed live food at least twice a week. Every day would be better. If they are just fed prepared food's they wont be as active or as good looking. You just wont get the best out of them.
There are a couple of tricks you can use to try hatch the eggs.
When the peat and eggs are in water get a straw and gently blow in to the water. The carbon dioxide you exhale has an effect on the eggs causing them to hatch. This really works.
Or place the hatching tub in another tub of water. Aerate the outer tub. This causes a vibration that can stimulate the eggs to hatch.
If the eggs are not in peat and you can see the fry wiggling trying to hatch you can add microworms to the water. The worms work there way in to the egg causing fractures to the outer egg allowing the fry to hatch. Don't do this unless the fry are ready to hatch or the worms will start to feed of the fry.
Of you can roll the eggs between your fingers. If they are soft you can just pop them like a pea releasing he fry.
I should mention the fry dont have eggsacs so they will need feeding shortly after hatching. A few micro worms in the rearing tub will do. It is also handy to have some javamoss in there. They will feed of the microorganisms living on it.
Here is a short video of how my drip and overflow tubs work.
This is not the actual tubs i use, they are buried at the moment but you get the idea.
The top tub is filled with fresh water. There is a hole with some wool sticking through it. The wool goes right down to the bottom of the top tub and stops short of the tub below.
This will draw fresh water down dripping in to the second tub were the fry are.
The tub with the fry also has some wool sticking through a hole but it only goes below the water line. If it was to go all the way in to the tub it could rain it completely killing the fry.
The tub on the bottom collects the waste water.
This is a slow water change all day long and the drops help aerate the water slightly.
I have tried placing infusoria in the top tub for a constant food supply but it didn't work very well. Only a small amount of infusoria was drawn in to the tub were the fry were.
I used to stack these about six high with various sized fry in the different tubs to prevent cannibalism.
I hope this is not information overload and you get something out of it.
Darren.
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08 Feb 2010 03:26 #16
by platty252 (Darren Dalton)
Replied by platty252 (Darren Dalton) on topic Re:nothobranchius eggersi red eggs
sheag35 wrote:
Yes.
I have done more than enough typing this evening/morning i will try get back to this tomorrow. I have some whiptail fry i need to tend to first.
If i was only allowed to say a couple of words about Noto's i would say this. They are like a cupasoup. Just add water.
Instant fish:laugh:
I wouldn't mind been second in line for some after john
brilliant stuff, i presume the Hatch date is when i sdd them to water... awaiting your next installment:woohoo:
Yes.
I have done more than enough typing this evening/morning i will try get back to this tomorrow. I have some whiptail fry i need to tend to first.
If i was only allowed to say a couple of words about Noto's i would say this. They are like a cupasoup. Just add water.
Instant fish:laugh:
I wouldn't mind been second in line for some after john
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09 Feb 2010 00:55 #21
by igmillichip (ian millichip)
Irish Tropical Fish Society (ITFS) Member.
Replied by igmillichip (ian millichip) on topic Re:nothobranchius eggersi red eggs
Good advice there Platy 252.
I'll just add a few extra bits.
Aging.....yep. These guys age (to the extent that they are medically significant), so Platy's comments are not that much of an exaggeration.
Often, the aging process just after the final spawing is so rapid that it is un-believable; one day a fine healthy vibrant male, the next a 150 year old trout.
(maybe an exaggeration there though).
If them eggs work for you, let us know. I may try some of the shipped ones myself oneday (when I could be bothered going on the internet:) )
In the picture of N.rachovii, this shows the breeding set-up in one of my tanks (but, of course, that picture was taken some years and the male is no longer with us).
This is what I used to help reduce the aggressive nature of the males on the females.
A small glass tank with a raised stilts bottom is placed within the main tank. In the small tank is the breeding material.
The idea is that a female can easily enter and leave the small tank, and if the male pursues then he tends to find a glass water rather than a straight line for the female. I found females lasted much longer with this set-up.
ian
I'll just add a few extra bits.
Aging.....yep. These guys age (to the extent that they are medically significant), so Platy's comments are not that much of an exaggeration.
Often, the aging process just after the final spawing is so rapid that it is un-believable; one day a fine healthy vibrant male, the next a 150 year old trout.
(maybe an exaggeration there though).If them eggs work for you, let us know. I may try some of the shipped ones myself oneday (when I could be bothered going on the internet:) )
In the picture of N.rachovii, this shows the breeding set-up in one of my tanks (but, of course, that picture was taken some years and the male is no longer with us).
This is what I used to help reduce the aggressive nature of the males on the females.
A small glass tank with a raised stilts bottom is placed within the main tank. In the small tank is the breeding material.
The idea is that a female can easily enter and leave the small tank, and if the male pursues then he tends to find a glass water rather than a straight line for the female. I found females lasted much longer with this set-up.
ian
Irish Tropical Fish Society (ITFS) Member.
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09 Feb 2010 02:07 - 09 Feb 2010 02:08 #26
by platty252 (Darren Dalton)
Replied by platty252 (Darren Dalton) on topic Re:nothobranchius eggersi red eggs
Stop Derek, you'll embarrass me:blush:
Writers cramp just about sums it up. I had come on line to update the whiptail tread which had a bit of typing in itself.
I made the mistake of browsing first. When i came across this tread how could i refuse writing about a fish i am so fond of.
Killies were my first love:laugh:
I had to come back to this tread this evening to fill in some blanks and add a bit more info.
Do you think there was anything i missed out on?
Writers cramp just about sums it up. I had come on line to update the whiptail tread which had a bit of typing in itself.
I made the mistake of browsing first. When i came across this tread how could i refuse writing about a fish i am so fond of.
Killies were my first love:laugh:
I had to come back to this tread this evening to fill in some blanks and add a bit more info.
Do you think there was anything i missed out on?
Please Log in to join the conversation.
09 Feb 2010 03:24 #27
by sheag35 (Seamus Gillespie)
Fishkeeping the Only way to get wet and wild
currently 25 tanks, and breeding is the aim of everything i keep
location:Limerick
Replied by sheag35 (Seamus Gillespie) on topic Re:nothobranchius eggersi red eggs
hope this pic helps identification Platty
Fishkeeping the Only way to get wet and wild
currently 25 tanks, and breeding is the aim of everything i keep
location:Limerick
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