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Retirement and forum shutdown (17 Jan 2022)

Hi,

John Howell who has managed the forum for years is getting on and wishes to retire from the role of managing it.
Over the years, he has managed the forum through good days and bad days and he has always been fair.
He has managed to bring his passion for fish keeping to the forum and keep it going for so long.

I wish to thank John for his hard work in keeping the forum going.

With John wishing to "retire" from the role of managing the forum and the forum receiving very little traffic, I think we must agree that forum has come to a natural conclusion and it's time to put it to rest.

I am proposing that the forum be made read-only from March 2022 onwards and that no new users or content be created. The website is still registered for several more years, so the content will still be accessible but no new topics or replies will be allowed.

If there is interest from the ITFS or other fish keeping clubs, we may redirect traffic to them or to a Facebook group but will not actively manage it.

I'd like to thank everyone over the years who helped with forum, posted a reply, started a new topic, ask a question and helped a newbie in fish keeping. And thank you to the sponsors who helped us along the away. Hopefully it made the hobby stronger.

I'd especially like to thank John Howell and Valerie Rousseau for all of their contributions, without them the forum would have never been has successful.

Thank you
Darragh Sherwin

Water ph and hardness.......

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21 Mar 2012 15:56 - 21 Mar 2012 16:00 #1 by alkiely (alan kiely)
Hi all,

The joys of dublin tap water......!!! :angry:

I need to drop the ph and hardness right down for my SA tank. Im gonna be running c02 but that wont get in down to the levels i want.

I dont want the levels going up and down want to keep them steady. I could add peat to the filter i guess. I dont want to use any chemicals etc to lower the ph and hardness.

Is there other ways i can do this and keep the levels steady.....?

Cant use rain water either so that out of the question.

Alan
Last edit: 21 Mar 2012 16:00 by alkiely (alan kiely).

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21 Mar 2012 17:39 - 21 Mar 2012 17:40 #2 by minnion (jimmy white)
was asking the same question of a breeder friend of mine and he told oak leaves would lower the ph
this was for apistos so i would same for most fish
Last edit: 21 Mar 2012 17:40 by minnion (jimmy white).

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21 Mar 2012 17:47 #3 by alkiely (alan kiely)
Oak leaves.......?

worth looking into so.

Is the breeder of the apisto a member on here...? if so can you pm me his details coz im setting up a new tank and im putting apistos into it.

If he has any forsale id be interested in buying some

Alan

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21 Mar 2012 19:16 - 21 Mar 2012 19:18 #4 by minnion (jimmy white)
no he works part time with the fish in my local pet shop but has breed many different types of fish
if mine breed ill sort you with some
Last edit: 21 Mar 2012 19:18 by minnion (jimmy white).

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21 Mar 2012 19:21 #5 by stretnik (stretnik)
Replied by stretnik (stretnik) on topic Re: Water ph and hardness.......
Not all Apistos require tampering or adjusting the Water in order to breed, some have been bred in Hard Water and maintained in the same hardness as they grew to maturity. My blasted Water is like bloody Concrete from the Tap so all I have done in the past, when lowering hardness of sorts was required, was to mix 50/50 with RO Water.

John in seahorse or Darren could give you some good advice as could Ian etc.

Kev.

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21 Mar 2012 19:29 #6 by alkiely (alan kiely)
Was only thinking about using ro water its pretty cheap to get too would save me alot of time just buying it.
Would i have to add any minerals etc to the water....?

just wasnt sure with the mix of ro water and co2 etc will take some fine tuning but i should get the right mix

Ill be heading over to sea horse tomorrow to see waht i can get my hands on so ill ask the lads then.

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21 Mar 2012 19:36 - 21 Mar 2012 19:38 #7 by stretnik (stretnik)
Replied by stretnik (stretnik) on topic Re: Water ph and hardness.......
You shouldn't need to add Minerals with Water from the N/S when using 50/50 RO and Tap., Afaik, this should also help buffer your ph should you decide to reduce it via Peat etc.

While using only RO, it may start out cheap but you will be locked into using remineralising concoctions for the duration and THAT could see your costs rising.

Kev.
Last edit: 21 Mar 2012 19:38 by stretnik (stretnik).

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21 Mar 2012 20:22 #8 by igmillichip (ian millichip)
What fish do you have? and do you plan on breeding them?
Do you really really need to drop the pH and hardness?


ian

Irish Tropical Fish Society (ITFS) Member.

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21 Mar 2012 20:24 #9 by alkiely (alan kiely)
Ill try the 50/50 mix with the co2 and see what my levels are like. Id settle for 6 to 6.5 which sold be easy to get with the 50/50 and co2 mix.

cheers kev.

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21 Mar 2012 20:32 #10 by alkiely (alan kiely)
Ian im planning on have apsitos again..

Kept them before with no problems with a ph of 7.4 and hard water but for breeding it never happened. I hoping to get the apisto breeding thats the main goal.

Ive kept A.cacatuoides, A.borelli, A Hongsloi and had a beautiful group of F1 A.viejita 1 male 3 females.

Found the Viejita females to be very agressive with each other two paired up and killed the weakest female.

Alan

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21 Mar 2012 22:44 #11 by JSleator (Jason Sleator)
Seeing as oak leaves were mentioned, i came across this a few days ago whilst on a googling session.
How to make oak leaf extract.

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21 Mar 2012 23:34 #12 by davey_c (dave clarke)
i'm in the same process for my apisto's because i'm seeing them starting to pair off now but i've tried alder cones in tap water with success but it never stayed down. now i'm using pure r/o water and seeing some movement with peat and it seems more consistant, i have a ball of it in the tank and every now and then give it a squeeze to let out some extract but its prity slow that way which hopefully will reduce ph shock.

Below tank is for sale

my plywood tank build.

www.irishfishkeepers.com/index.php/forum...k-build-diary#137768

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22 Mar 2012 00:12 #13 by alkiely (alan kiely)
If I keep mixing RO and tape water I'll get the right mix then when I add the co2 it will drop it further. So it will take a fees to get it right but it will be worth it in the end. That's why I don't wanna use peat coz it's hit and miss.

Davey C what apisto are you keeping and any joy with the breeding yet...?

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22 Mar 2012 01:26 #14 by davey_c (dave clarke)
im keeping cacatuoides "double reds", bitaeniata, iniridae, elezabethae "super reds", hongsloi "form 2" and hoignei.
most are too young yet but are starting to pair off. the problem i'm having is even keeping my ph below 7 even though there is nothing i can see of that would be the cause of a higher reading, i was gonna try co2 too but i don't think it'll get me anywhere near wher i need to be for some to breed unfortunately.

what apisto's will you be keeping??

Below tank is for sale

my plywood tank build.

www.irishfishkeepers.com/index.php/forum...k-build-diary#137768

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22 Mar 2012 10:53 - 22 Mar 2012 11:13 #15 by alkiely (alan kiely)
That's a super list of apistos......

Seen bitaeniata before Christmas in a sponsor shop they are super looking apistos. If you have any look breeding any of the apistos I call dibs on some ha

Was looking at A bitaeniata, A iniridae, A Viejiata and A Panduro. I'll pick two Apistos to keep in the 4 foot say 1 male to 2 females and if I get my way I'll see if I can get my hands on wild or f1 apistos for a 60L tank I have hidden away ha
Last edit: 22 Mar 2012 11:13 by alkiely (alan kiely).

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22 Mar 2012 13:29 #16 by sheag35 (Seamus Gillespie)
Hi Alan like you i've gone apisto crazy, i currently have the following apistos.. wild macmasteri, wild atahlupa, wild baenschi inka, wild catei, f1 hongsloi, bitaeniata, f1 puianesis, f1 pucallapensis, veijita formII ( although i'm 90% positive they are macmasteri ), and nijssni and 2 unidentified apisto fry that came in with a bag of pygmy corys i got. i use a 75%rainwater (which has alder cones in the waterbutt)/25% tap mix, with a sand substrate over which i place oak leaves or almond leaves whichever is nearest to hand, and i also use steins oak extract, this brings my ph to just around the 5.5 if i require it lower i just add peat pellets in a fine mesh bag or the missus's old tights and hide it behind the decor in the water flow that can drop it below 5, i find its relatively stable for me this way. i currently have the macmasteri with fry and the athalupa over eggs so it seems to be working the rest are just a little immature yet to spawn but fingers crossed
Seamus

Fishkeeping the Only way to get wet and wild

currently 25 tanks, and breeding is the aim of everything i keep
location:Limerick

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22 Mar 2012 13:59 #17 by alkiely (alan kiely)
Seamus thats an amazing selection of apistos you have there im extremely jealous....

If its working that way for you im gonna give it a go myself cant argue with the results your getting at the minute.

Always loved apistos small fish but great colours and when the pair up great to watch too.

Sounds like you have some amount of tanks going with great fish.

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22 Mar 2012 14:10 #18 by sheag35 (Seamus Gillespie)
only 25tanks alan but worth it lol

Fishkeeping the Only way to get wet and wild

currently 25 tanks, and breeding is the aim of everything i keep
location:Limerick

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22 Mar 2012 14:22 #19 by alkiely (alan kiely)
Only 25 but whos counting..........

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22 Mar 2012 14:26 #20 by sheag35 (Seamus Gillespie)
the missus :(

Fishkeeping the Only way to get wet and wild

currently 25 tanks, and breeding is the aim of everything i keep
location:Limerick

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22 Mar 2012 14:35 #21 by alkiely (alan kiely)
At this stage just add a tank or two she will never notice...

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22 Mar 2012 15:52 #22 by davey_c (dave clarke)

That's a super list of apistos......

Seen bitaeniata before Christmas in a sponsor shop they are super looking apistos. If you have any look breeding any of the apistos I call dibs on some ha

Was looking at A bitaeniata, A iniridae, A Viejiata and A Panduro. I'll pick two Apistos to keep in the 4 foot say 1 male to 2 females and if I get my way I'll see if I can get my hands on wild or f1 apistos for a 60L tank I have hidden away ha


yea thats cool, the bitaeniata i have are wild caught and the male is huge, very hard to get a picture of them though because their in blackwater

@sheag35.... do you filter your rainwater? was considering getting a water butt myself but may get up and clean the roof 1st :laugh: .... aslo did you ever try just using peat moss as the substrate??
cheers

Below tank is for sale

my plywood tank build.

www.irishfishkeepers.com/index.php/forum...k-build-diary#137768

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22 Mar 2012 16:02 #23 by alkiely (alan kiely)
What if you i was to use a water butt with peat in the end of it and just add tap water leave it sitting with a pump in it to keep the water moving would taht work....?

Alan

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22 Mar 2012 16:15 #24 by davey_c (dave clarke)
the hardness would possibly be a problem unless your tap water is very soft, you would need to test you kh but chances are it would resist the lowering process unless you lower the kh 1st... thats my understanding of it anyways, and why i use r/o, but i'm open to correction from the more knolledgable :)

Below tank is for sale

my plywood tank build.

www.irishfishkeepers.com/index.php/forum...k-build-diary#137768

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22 Mar 2012 20:45 #25 by igmillichip (ian millichip)
how much a 50/50 mix of tap water and RO water (assuming the RO water is as pure as pure could be) would drop the pH depends on the pH of the tap water, the alkalinity of the tap water (related very closely to the KH), the actual buffering capacity of the total mix, and exactly which chemicals in the tap water that contribute to the alkalinty and pH. Of course, temperature also affects pH.

So, if we take an simple (but unrealistic case for tap water) case of having tap water with a pH of 8 but has almost zero alkalinity and almost zero buffering capacity, and that the chemical causing the pH is sodium hydroxide, then doing a 50/50 mix would theoretically drop the pH to ~7.7 (ignoring any carbon dioxide that might dissolve).
If, however, the tap water has a high alkalinity and good buffering (by having a different mixes of acids and bases and their salts to sodium hydroxide) then the pH drop may not even be as much (you may even find that the pH is still nearly 8).

Without any further info on the chemistry of the tap water, one can only guess what the outcome would be.

If you do mix tap water with RO and add peat then you are likely to drop the pH, but to what level?.....that depends on the above.

Ian

Irish Tropical Fish Society (ITFS) Member.

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22 Mar 2012 22:36 #26 by alkiely (alan kiely)
Well living in coolock Dublin the ph will be in the mid 7 region and will be hard.

So by lowering the kh it will in fact lower the ph is that correct

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22 Mar 2012 23:44 #27 by igmillichip (ian millichip)

Well living in coolock Dublin the ph will be in the mid 7 region and will be hard.

So by lowering the kh it will in fact lower the ph is that correct


Nope....not as a fact anyway.

Lowering KH may have a simultaneous lowering of pH, but it could cause a raising of pH depending on chemicals are giving the pH you have. What is closer to a fact is that with a lowered KH you are more likely to have an unstable pH that could rise or lower at the drop of a hat.

However, we just so happen to find that natural water that has a low KH may just so happen have a low pH (but it is not a rule or a fact).

If you do lower your KH, then you will have more chance of lowering the pH by using peat (or cones or almond leaves etc).

Sometimes, people say that all that is too complex or confusing....and that is why I would always advise to change pH with great care and to know the potential problems if something goes wrong (as does in some cases).

ian

Irish Tropical Fish Society (ITFS) Member.

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