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Retirement and forum shutdown (17 Jan 2022)

Hi,

John Howell who has managed the forum for years is getting on and wishes to retire from the role of managing it.
Over the years, he has managed the forum through good days and bad days and he has always been fair.
He has managed to bring his passion for fish keeping to the forum and keep it going for so long.

I wish to thank John for his hard work in keeping the forum going.

With John wishing to "retire" from the role of managing the forum and the forum receiving very little traffic, I think we must agree that forum has come to a natural conclusion and it's time to put it to rest.

I am proposing that the forum be made read-only from March 2022 onwards and that no new users or content be created. The website is still registered for several more years, so the content will still be accessible but no new topics or replies will be allowed.

If there is interest from the ITFS or other fish keeping clubs, we may redirect traffic to them or to a Facebook group but will not actively manage it.

I'd like to thank everyone over the years who helped with forum, posted a reply, started a new topic, ask a question and helped a newbie in fish keeping. And thank you to the sponsors who helped us along the away. Hopefully it made the hobby stronger.

I'd especially like to thank John Howell and Valerie Rousseau for all of their contributions, without them the forum would have never been has successful.

Thank you
Darragh Sherwin

The Most Humane Way to Euthanize a Fish?

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20 May 2012 21:23 #1 by ger310 (Ger .)
Just wondering what peoples best practice of euthanizing a fish is? unfortunately its something i think i'll have to do fairly soon so would really like to hear what people found to be the most humane for the fish and the easiest mentally for the person euthanizing it,thanks

Ger

not sure if this is right category mods?

What do you call a three legged Donkey?

A Wonkey....duh ha :)

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20 May 2012 21:29 #2 by stretnik (stretnik)
Replied by stretnik (stretnik) on topic Re: The Most Humane Way to Euthanize a Fish?
Pop it into a glass full of tank water and leave it in the freezer,it slows the metabolism and their system shuts down.

Kev.

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20 May 2012 21:38 #3 by ger310 (Ger .)
Thanks Kev,from what i have read,this seems to be the most stress free way of doing it......There is a lot online about using clove oil and vodka....do you know of this method?

Ger

What do you call a three legged Donkey?

A Wonkey....duh ha :)

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20 May 2012 21:40 #4 by stretnik (stretnik)
Replied by stretnik (stretnik) on topic Re: The Most Humane Way to Euthanize a Fish?
Only using the frozen method.


Kev.

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20 May 2012 22:08 #5 by Jambomac (James McConville)
that method is more like torture it takes a while for the fish to die
it would cause stress and pain

Quick is best the same way you kill a trout you catch crack on the head
and its over in a second might be worse on you but not the fish
the other method in my opinion is worse on the fish a slow drawn out death.

“A wise man can learn more from a foolish question than a fool can learn from a wise answer.”

quote Bruce Lee

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20 May 2012 22:11 #6 by igmillichip (ian millichip)
@Ger.....you made a good point: about what is truly humane to the fish, and what us humans see as humane.
The 2 could be very different......often us humans call something humane when, as observers, we don't see a struggle or lots of guts.
But, that is a philosophical topic to feed many a debate (just like the 'humane' death-penalty I guess).

Clove oil is an anaesthetic that will kill fish and has been used extensively.

Some people have used a heavy brick dropped on the fish from a height.

Flushing down the toilet, feeding to other fish, and gently squeezing the fish under foot in a newspaper are not really good options.

ian

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20 May 2012 22:45 #7 by stretnik (stretnik)
Replied by stretnik (stretnik) on topic Re: The Most Humane Way to Euthanize a Fish?

that method is more like torture it takes a while for the fish to die
it would cause stress and pain

Quick is best the same way you kill a trout you catch crack on the head
and its over in a second might be worse on you but not the fish
the other method in my opinion is worse on the fish a slow drawn out death.


If I am to go by Lab results, the Slowing of the metabolism leads to the inability of the Neurons etc to transmit Chemically signals to the Brain so in essence the Fish enters torpor and it's body shuts down, I offered this as an alternative to squashing or knocking against a hard surface ( my favourite )for those too squeamish to do so.

Kev.

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20 May 2012 22:47 - 20 May 2012 23:01 #8 by stretnik (stretnik)
Replied by stretnik (stretnik) on topic Re: The Most Humane Way to Euthanize a Fish?
It's tantamount to saying, a slow death is worse than a quick one but who is to say that the intensity of pain experienced in a veritable instant isn't better or worse than a slower one... the answer is, nobody knows. To gauge it in Human terms is to anthropormophise it and it would be unwise to do so.

Kev.
Last edit: 20 May 2012 23:01 by stretnik (stretnik).

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20 May 2012 23:04 #9 by stretnik (stretnik)
Replied by stretnik (stretnik) on topic Re: The Most Humane Way to Euthanize a Fish?
Also would depend on the size of the Fish.

Kev.

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21 May 2012 11:09 #10 by CrustyCrab (Peter Biddulph)
This is a subject that gets to everyone. No one want to euthanize their fish. Yet as we all know, there are times when this is the only action available.
There are many methods available, each will have its devotees, and its detractors.
Freezing, if done correctly, is as already said, one of the best methods, as is the use of Clove OIl.
I did a quick search on the web and found the following sites......
www.badmanstropicalfish.com/forum/index.php?topic=1280.0
www.fishchannel.com/fish-health/euthanasia.aspx
www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/tropical-fis...-euthanize-fish-698/
homepage.ntlworld.com/faustus/nicoldaquaria/euthanasia.htm

There are some strange methods used, some beyond belief.
Here is a few methods which I have found. Please note that I do not advocate the use of these methods.
"Drop him into my tank with 2 turtles. He would be there for 3 seconds."
"I'd say the garbage disposal is probably just about as humane, from a quickest is best standpoint."
"Pop it in the blender"
and the most common one
"Flush it"
I am sure that there are more crazy methods and fishkeepers out there............

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21 May 2012 15:11 #11 by ger310 (Ger .)
Thanks for the replys Lads......Yeh some of the answers i found online border on criminal as far as i'm concerned but i accept this is the world we live in today!!
From what you said and from what i found online,Clover oil seems to be the best way to go all round...I prefer the idea that the fish has being put 'asleep' and then killed as i would know for certain it died peacefully and under no stress or pain.....The freeze method is something i dont think i would have a problem doing but as a preference,i think an anaesthetic would be best for the fish and myself....Thanks again

Ger

What do you call a three legged Donkey?

A Wonkey....duh ha :)

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21 May 2012 19:04 #12 by igmillichip (ian millichip)
I have a book on Fish Anaesthetics.

It is called "Anaesthetics and Sedative Techniques for Aquatic Animals" from 2008; 228 pages long, and the bible on such matters.

ian

Irish Tropical Fish Society (ITFS) Member.

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21 May 2012 21:03 #13 by Fishowner (Gavin fishowner)
Each to their own..Ive used a scissors on small fish...cut the head..over in a second..you will feel horrible after it though.

Gavin

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21 May 2012 21:07 #14 by stretnik (stretnik)
Replied by stretnik (stretnik) on topic Re: The Most Humane Way to Euthanize a Fish?
I'd end up severing a Finger because I'd have my Eyes closed.

Kev,

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21 May 2012 21:29 #15 by igmillichip (ian millichip)
We know what happened to the bloke who invented Madame la Guillotine. ;)

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21 May 2012 21:58 #16 by DJK (David Kinsella)
Clove oil is good but fierce expensive. Used it for an abscess on my tooth not so long ago - not worth a damn for that. Antibiotics are the only solution despite what them doctors say for my then ailment. I wonder what doctors use themselves for pain beyond pain? I'll use the rest of the oil for my next fish death because that's all it's good for.

Dave

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21 May 2012 22:03 #17 by stretnik (stretnik)
Replied by stretnik (stretnik) on topic Re: The Most Humane Way to Euthanize a Fish?
Morphine.... the choice of Doctors!

Kev.

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21 May 2012 22:16 #18 by igmillichip (ian millichip)
Clove oil is very good as an antiseptic and relief of mild pain in tooth problems.......but an abscess is deep root nerve pain: aspirin, paracetamol, other fancy names 'pain-killers' from a chemist do nothing; screaming in the middle of the night does very little, and bashing your head off the wall seems like the only answer.

But until you get the swelling down with anitbiotics, that pain will be a killer.

For deep root ganglial pain.....morphine (or some poison dart frogs).

A nice hot Phaal Curry is also good for stimulating the brain to overcome pain (but first, you need to be able to eat the Phaal curry). ;)

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22 May 2012 08:28 #19 by CrustyCrab (Peter Biddulph)
A nice hot Phaal Curry is also good for stimulating the brain to overcome pain (but first, you need to be able to eat the Phaal curry).

which leads nicely on to the next topic................ THE BEST WAY TO EAT A PHAAL CURRY

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22 May 2012 08:37 #20 by sheag35 (Seamus Gillespie)

A nice hot Phaal Curry is also good for stimulating the brain to overcome pain (but first, you need to be able to eat the Phaal curry).

which leads nicely on to the next topic................ THE BEST WAY TO EAT A PHAAL CURRY


carefully :lol:

Fishkeeping the Only way to get wet and wild

currently 25 tanks, and breeding is the aim of everything i keep
location:Limerick

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22 May 2012 12:33 #21 by davey_c (dave clarke)
i don't get too bogged down in it myself when needed because there's some bit of truth in the saying "cruel to be kind" or at least thats what my momma always told me :lol: :lol:

but personaly i wouldn't rely on doing it to them asleep because as were all a product of natural evolution i quite closely (maybe too close :cheer: ) associate all life in a similar way just in different forms, as you cannot communicate with the fish how can anyone say they are fully asleep and unaware of the pain about to be inflicted on them?.. my opinion is based on the amount of horror stories of people being put to sleep yet under the annistetic are still able to feel everything :ohmy: .... sorta takes the humanity out of it imo

as for the freezer method... how the hell do some come up with this... don't supose they ask the fish being frozen?? :crazy:

Below tank is for sale

my plywood tank build.

www.irishfishkeepers.com/index.php/forum...k-build-diary#137768

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22 May 2012 12:36 #22 by stretnik (stretnik)
Replied by stretnik (stretnik) on topic Re: The Most Humane Way to Euthanize a Fish?
Captain Birdseye would beg to differ ! :evil:

Kev.

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22 May 2012 13:47 #23 by mattsdomino (Matt)
Cryogenics eh?

When they discover a cure you can thaw the Fish out! :cool:

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22 May 2012 13:53 #24 by igmillichip (ian millichip)
Captain Birdseye invention of fish has now gone too far with people putting brains, eyes, and fins on them and making them swim in water. Fortunately, they are not furry, not cuddly and don't squeeze.

That now leads us to a problem of having to decide not just on which method to use to euthanise a fish but, also, at what stage does the moral question of needing to eunthanise a fish come to mind?

Maybe the word Euthanise is not really appropriate......the word is 'Kill'. It is as crude as that with no frilly bits to make it sound more pleasant.

Again.....back to philosophy, sophistry, morality etc etc (and lawfulness and legality also comes into play)

ian

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22 May 2012 14:27 #25 by CrustyCrab (Peter Biddulph)
Yes, as Ian said, the word is kill, no matter how we dress it up. For loved ones and pets, mercy killing might be a better word, but it is killing all the same. IMO, better a quick death than a long slow painful death. The result is the same.
We care for our fish, creating their world, reducing pollution down with water changes, feeding them,etc. therefore it is right that we follow this caring to the end.
Do we leave a sick and dying fish to the mercy of its tank mates, picked at and being eaten alive, or do we reach for the net of freezer bag

back to the wife saying "one more tank !! over my dead body" pass the clove oil dear........

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