Organic Aqua - Trial

After hearing Steve Whitesides presentation at one of the ITFS meetings and seeing the tanks he was running at the show, I decided it was time to try this stuff.

There was a lot of discussion on this forum and other forums about what it is and how it works, but no one seems to have the answer to the \"how it works\" bit, at least not the full technical details. I am fascinated to know how this product works and anything that reduces the volume of waterchanges required on nearly 30 tanks if worth investigating.

For the trial I am going to run four tanks on Organic Aqua (OA) for a few months and see what the results are. Initially I have converted two tanks, one of 75l and one 125l. Both hold a mixture of various corys and plecs, the latter is also home to a pair of Betta simplex. The third tank will be a 60l breeding tank for a group of Corydoras aeneus that breed like clockwork, I want to see will the OA have any impact on their breeding activity. The fourth tank will be a heavily stocked holding tank.

To convert an existing tank is straightforward, if a little alien to a traditional fishkeeper. Do a 75% water change, no dechlorinator needed, with water of the correct temp and pH. Wash out your filters in tap water to kill the bacteria, replace biological media with mechanical media and add extra aeration. Add the three components of Organic Aqua. (1) “B-bac” looks like chopped tobacco or dried tea leaves, this medium is the home to the bacteria to be released in the tank. (2) “General Treatment” clear liquid, a mixture of plant extracts and water soluble oils. (3) “Health Treatment”, a sugar like white powder that instantly dissolves in water, contains essential minerals and plant material.

Results to-date:
5 days after converting two tanks, there are no problems, the fish look happy and healthy and are feeding well the water is clear and the pH has not changed.

I will update this thread as the trial goes on and report any news, good or bad.


(If you are going to try OA yourself, please read the instructions carefully first)<br><br>Post edited by: Daragh, at: 2007/08/06 15:38

I am really curious to see how you get on. will keep an eye on this thread to follow your progress. Hope it goes well for you

Nessa

i am trying organic on a few tanks and will also post my findings on this thread.

Although some people complain about this sort of product. I feel that it's very useful for people to be reviewing these things. After all, one man's something is another man's something &amp; all that (bad memory there )

I think it might be a good idea to review products &amp; perhaps have a section in the articles for it. That way some people needn't go waisting their money on rubbish.

I'm also interested to hear about Tetra's new product for maturation (isn't it called Safe Start?) So if anyone has cycled a tank this way (preferably as it says on the bottle) then it'd be great to hear about it.

Regards

Richard

Never used Safe start but TetraAqua Bactozym works a treat.

Organic Aqua Trial - Update

Tanks 1 and 2 are still doing fine, I have to remind myself NOT to do a water change as I work my way around the room. It seems so strange not to need a water change. The fish are perky and eating well. One small niggle is that I think the water looks ever so slightly cloudy, it will be interesting to see if this clears or gets worse.

The 4th tank I mentioned I was going to try was a stock tank, I went one futher and do not convert a new tank, instead I set up a new tank with tap water only, no dechlorinator. I got the temp up to 75f, pH was 7.0 anyway so in went the OA closely followed by 50 1\&quot; corys!!! Yes I know it sounds a but crazy but 24 hours later the fish are all fine and looking for food.

I will update if there are any developments.

Sounds a bit crazy? Understatement of the year. Risking 50 corys sounds not only a bit crazy. If you have too many of them, I'll take them off your hands:whistle:

Ignore Holger as I think he's a fetish for cory's at the moment.

Can someone please clarify how exactly this product works, I've tried to find information with little luck. Personaly, As a fishkeeper myself, I would not use a product unless I knew exactly what it was doing? I've used safestart and understand the basic principal behind it however I've found nothing on this product.

Personnaly, Safestart Works a treat, Tried, Tested, Proven.

I wish you luck with your experiment and hope all goes well.

Dave.

I agree that the technical details are a bit sketchy, but I am still willing to try it. As I said in another thread, no one knows exactly how barley straw works to clear a pond, but it is used all over the world and has been for 800 years. It is essentially the same with Organic Aqua, perhaps the creator(s) know what is going on but want to protect there product, who knows. It has been in use since 1976, so there must be something to it, hence the trial. I am sure you have read the posts above, but I don't know any ohter product you could add to tap water and dump in 50 corys and have them swimming around happily eating and still looking great after 24 hours. Naturally I will monitor how they are getting on and act if they are stressed or in any difficlutly, but I don't expect anything like that. When I have completed my trial I may be no wiser as to how exactly it works, but I will know whether or not it works for me and if it does I would have no problems continuing to use it, if it is of benefit to me. I don't know how most perscription drugs work either, that does not mean I won't take what the doc has ordered

I agree with all of Daraghs comments, and also found the healing properties of this product quite amazing. As a last resort I placed a badly travelled fish (on its back, normally a goner)into heated tapwater with this stuff added and was amazed at his recovery to full health. I then did the same with a few weary malawi combatants with the same result. Having said this I am still somewhat sceptical re long term use and will continue the trial with a few tanks and some hand picked fish. I also look forward to reading of Daraghs. findings.

so far:
my positives; speed of initial set up; holistic qualities/hospital and/or quarantine; fish don't seem to jump;
my negatives: top ups/dosing levels(3 different components to be measured); tanks must be left uncovered;

richardbunn wrote:

Ignore Holger as I think he's a fetish for cory's at the moment.

Incorrect Richard. Always had a soft spot for the little buggers. Ok, rephrase, dumping 50 fish of any species into an new and uncycled tank sounds a little bit like lunacy to me. Fine if that particular product works but do we really need it? What is wrong with cycling a tank and doing regular water changes? At least it keeps you involved with your fish and you are more likely to observe them more than you would with a 'ready made, don't need to watch it and it comes out of a bottle' solution?
However, I can see a point for that stuff for businesses that specialize in aquarium set-ups for commercial customers such as dentists, restaurants, etc.

Organic Aqua Trail - Update

Tank 1 and 2 are still doing fine.

apistodiscus wrote:
... dumping 50 fish of any species into an new and uncycled tank sounds a little bit like lunacy to me. Fine if that particular product works but do we really need it? What is wrong with cycling a tank and doing regular water changes? At least it keeps you involved with your fish and you are more likely to observe them more than you would with a 'ready made, don't need to watch it and it comes out of a bottle' solution?
However, I can see a point for that stuff for businesses that specialize in aquarium set-ups for commercial customers such as dentists, restaurants, etc.[/quote]

Tank 3, the one I dumped the 50 corys into just tap water, is fine too. I did do a 50% water change because the water was getting a little cloudy. The fish seemed fine, but I think 50 fish in a small tank with an airpowered box filter may have been pushing the product too far. I did the change yesterday with tap water of the same temp and pH and added the appropriate amount of OA. The tank looked better but the fish still looked the same, whatever was clouding the water was not bothering them.


feeding time in test tank

Who wants to cycle a tank for a month or play around with ammonia and rotten prawns when they can use this stuff? I don't agree that by not doing water changes you are not interacting with your fish, personally I would have more time for photographing them and monitoring their behaviour, looking after fry etc. However I do have 27 tanks running so the time saved for most people may not be such a significant chuck of their evenings. I can not imagine that I would change all tanks over, assuming the trial is 100% succesful. I could see myself using it in unplanted stock tanks and having handy in case I come home with a bundle of fish with no cycled tank ready - for that purpose alone it is worth having.

I still have not used it on the breeding group of corys I mentioned, I defintely do not want to upset them so I think I might continue existing 3 test tanks a little longer first.<br><br>Post edited by: Daragh Owens, at: 2007/08/11 23:24

I am not taking up for this product nor am I endorsing it in
any way but look at it this time.

Most if not all of us kept Goldfish when we were kids.Probably
all in a bowl with a bit of coloured gravel and a plastic plant. I myself had one for 7 years in a small bowl.

To do this now would sound horrorfying (spelling)
You would have a minimun of a 3 foot tank. A filter. sand/pea gravel and a good lighting system. Plastic plants would be a no no.
The point I am making is that things change. You should be perpared to move with the times. In 10 years times we all might
be using a new system instead of Biological filters.
I personally am happy using biological filtration and
have no intentions of using this product at the moment.
Next week another product might come on the market and be the
sliced bread of fish keeping.

Never limit yourself and get stuck in your ways.
There are people out there keeping fish 30 years and we
would laugh at their methods. 20 years ago these people
were the ones in the know.Look at them now. They refused to imbrace new ways and so were left behind.

This post might sound like a load of s***e and you can slag me in your replies but all I am doing is making a point.

Remember people were burned at the stake for saying the Earth
revolved around the Sun ( By Holgers ancesters:P )

Anthony wrote:

... Never limit yourself and get stuck in your ways ...

... Remember people were burned at the stake for saying the Earth revolved around the Sun ...

Well said Anto, it was the people that slagged off the product on another thread that made me determined to try the product in the first place, I still do not understand how it works, but at least I was prepared to put my fish where my mouth was.

I quite agree Anto.

If someone said 15 years ago that marine tanks would be filtered by lumps of rock that cost a bloody fortune.

People have asked me about my methods of using Tetra Easybalance &amp; six monthly water changes in the past &amp; questioned it too. My test results &amp; tanks are proof. I've plants going so mad that fry survive all the predation. I don't even use the product all the time. While my tanks are algae free the front glass has recently started to exhibit signs of hard diatomous algae that's a sod to get off. The reason? such low phosphate levels for my lighting. You see it's only cropped up since I renewed my bulb. So I've stopped the EB for about 6 weeks now. Tests are fine considering the plants would filter my tank if I had no 'real' filter. The result is that while I haven't bothered my backside to scrape off the existing diatoms, no new stuff has grown so I'm at the stage for a clean viewing area all teh time again.

There are products out there that we know to work. We can prove it. Yet people are very reluctant. Yet there are other products like Nutrafin Cycle which is known to be less effective than a glass of urine yet it's quite the seller. Besides the new Tetra bacteria product &amp; Biospira the only commonly available maturing agent that is any good is Waterlife's Bio-Mature.

Regards
Richard

daragh , are you planning on minitoring nitrates?

richardbunn wrote:

... Yet there are other products like Nutrafin Cycle which is known to be less effective than a glass of urine yet it's quite the seller. ...

I would like to read more about that Richard, any links or are you talking from personal experience?

lampeye wrote:

daragh , are you planning on minitoring nitrates?

No, not really, I understand that the readings are off the wall, but that is natural when using the product. I will do a test later or tomorrow and post the results anyway, just as a matter of interest.<br><br>Post edited by: Daragh Owens, at: 2007/08/12 01:07

Good point anthony. It got me thinking of the countless goldfish who have been plunged into raw tapwater over the years and then a week later when the water is becoming more tolerable for the fish but also cloudy, it is dumped and replaced with more raw water and this continues till the fish can take no more and dies. If organic or a similar product can help to eliminate needless suffering in such instances then it might be a useful tool in the battle against wanton cruelty. At this point based on my tests I can say there is no doubt in my mind that this product has merit at the very least in a hospital or quarantine situation. The addition of top ups is where i am having difficulty just now, but the test will continue as long as the fish are ok. If anybody else has tested or uses this product it would be good to hear their views or conclusions.

Daragh Owens wrote:

richardbunn wrote:

... Yet there are other products like Nutrafin Cycle which is known to be less effective than a glass of urine yet it's quite the seller. ...

I would like to read more about that Richard, any links or are you talking from personal experience?

Hi Daragh

It's known to do very little so in effect he urine would be better because at least it's a source of ammonia. Actually urine can be used &amp; there are people (on here too I think) that have cycled with it.

Even dear old PFK did an article recently (I think it was a buyers guide) to maturation treatments &amp; it wasn't great. It's not thought much of on their forum either.

To tell the truth I don't use any product to cycle a tank. I use a prawn if it's an 'only tank' that I set up for someone. If it's one of my own then I stick the filter sponges in my other filters for about a month. Then when I put them in the new filter I also do a media clean in one of my existing tanks &amp; dump the pleasantly horrible water into the new tank too.

Regards

Richard

I agree with Richard.
I mature all my tanks by squeezing bio med from mature tank
straingh in to the new one and the tank water.

I think Cycle is useless. The only product I would use(if Ihad no access to a mature filter) is Safe water. I have used it for years and it in an excellent product.

Richard, I was wondering if you were refering to the PFK article, I saw that ok, just wondered if some had actually analysed the benefits of urine over commercial products, I was wondering how they would do it as I am sure the consistancy of the samples would vary considerably. \&quot;Sorry dear I can't drink tonight, cycling a tank tomorrow\&quot;

Anyway I tried Cycle and did not find it that good, have not bought it since, not worth the price anyway. I do use Nutrafin Plus (dechlorinator) though. Find that great.

I agree that cycleing a tank with dirty mature media is a great kick start to a tank, but it does not allow you add large volumes of fish at the same time!

For anyone that wants to see how the fish are doing in Organic Aqua, see video link below also posted in Fish Videos section. The first tank and the tank of Corydoras schultzei which appears at 55 seconds are two of the three Oa tanks I am running. The first was a standard biologically filtered tank that was converted and the schultzei tank was a tap water job.

I used this stuff over a year ago on a 65l tank and eventually decided to cycle it. I tested the water and was getting mad readings. I also lost a gourami which I assumed was due to the spikes, but turned out to be the iridovirus - I lost every other colisa lalia I had in the same way.

I learned afterwards that you don't test your water with OA as it will give \&quot;false positivies\&quot; I imagine the ammonia, nitrITE and nitrATE are there, but this product neutralises them in some way. This is something they don't state which has seriously concerned experienced fish keepers when testing the product.

I have an open mind on this stuff. I do believe it works, but I'm not too keen on paying €50+ per month for the maintenance kits. The more water you have, the more expensive the monthly outlay. Yes, I am a tight git. Cycling is free!

do you think it will affect growth rate off the fish ?????

billydiscus wrote:

do you think it will affect growth rate off the fish ?????

At this stage I have no idea, however I would expect that if the fish are happy in the water and eating well, which they are there is no reason for growth rate to be reduced, if anything I suppoe it could be argued that the growth rate may increase. That would be an interesting long term test, however I don't think I have the time and space for it at the moment, maybe in the future.

ant update on this Daragh

cheers

I've used safestart to cycle a brand new Rio 400 tank. Went down to the hardware store and bought a 9.5% ammonia solution to use as my source.

Took 6 days to cycle fully and it's now full of healthy tangs. No losses whatsoever as a result of water quality.

billydiscus wrote:

ant update on this Daragh

cheers

Sorry I have been extremely busy lately, I am actually off this week and have even less free time

So a very brief update, I am still using OA in the original three tanks and now three more too. Reason bing that I received some fish unexpectedly and set up instant tanks for them with OA, works perfectly. The longer term tanks are not as straightforward, it works but I have not have 100% cosistant results - no disaters or anything, just not all tanks did as well with it.

I will post in detail on this as soon as I can.

I have used this stuff in a tank I run in my local school for about 18 months and I haven't had a single problem with it. It's ideal for this tank as I can usually only get to the school once a week (due to working shift).

Water conditions are fine and I've had maybe 2 or 3 dead fish in that time.

The kids love the tank too