Retirement and forum shutdown (17 Jan 2022)

Hi,

John Howell who has managed the forum for years is getting on and wishes to retire from the role of managing it.
Over the years, he has managed the forum through good days and bad days and he has always been fair.
He has managed to bring his passion for fish keeping to the forum and keep it going for so long.

I wish to thank John for his hard work in keeping the forum going.

With John wishing to "retire" from the role of managing the forum and the forum receiving very little traffic, I think we must agree that forum has come to a natural conclusion and it's time to put it to rest.

I am proposing that the forum be made read-only from March 2022 onwards and that no new users or content be created. The website is still registered for several more years, so the content will still be accessible but no new topics or replies will be allowed.

If there is interest from the ITFS or other fish keeping clubs, we may redirect traffic to them or to a Facebook group but will not actively manage it.

I'd like to thank everyone over the years who helped with forum, posted a reply, started a new topic, ask a question and helped a newbie in fish keeping. And thank you to the sponsors who helped us along the away. Hopefully it made the hobby stronger.

I'd especially like to thank John Howell and Valerie Rousseau for all of their contributions, without them the forum would have never been has successful.

Thank you
Darragh Sherwin

Sick Angelfish - Update Dead

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Didihno (Didihno)
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25 Sep 2007 09:37 - 05 Oct 2007 09:22 #1 by Didihno (Didihno)

Sick Angelfish - Update Dead was created by Didihno (Didihno)

Hi all,
I recently took on a mates fish stock while he goes on a world tour.
I inherited some great stuff, including a Horsefaced loach, two rummy noses, a 3\" Clown, Two unidentified cats (one is defo a Syno, maybe multipunctatus(sp)), a huge 8\" Bala and finally a big Angelfish.

They are all well except the Angel, which has two different but probably related symptoms.
I did not notice these marks until after it was in my tank, with Discus of all things.

The first is a red spot on its back between the dorsal and tail fins.
This spot is red and looks like a human zit that has been burst, with a damaged area on top.
The second is a speckling of little red dots on its upper body around the base of the dorsal fin.
It looks like the fish has had acupuncture.

I cannot get pics until maybe late tonight but Gavin in wackers said it sounded like hole in the head and sold me Melafix to treat it, which I did last night. Can anyone help out before I bother trying to snap this shy fish.
Thanks.

Last edit: 05 Oct 2007 09:22 by Didihno (Didihno).

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apistodiscus (apistodiscus)
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25 Sep 2007 10:36 #2 by apistodiscus (apistodiscus)

Replied by apistodiscus (apistodiscus) on topic Re:Sick Angelfish

Melafix is pretty useless for starters and it definitely will not cure hole in the head disease. Hexamita or Spirohexol might do the job or else you might need to use antibiotics. As the name suggests hole-in-the-head usually manifests itself by small crater like holes in the head area. something like this www.jbl.de/onlinehospital/perpicture/hos...l_pictures/017_c.jpg As you can see, no red marks. Your discus would show signs of hole in the head way before an angel would come down with it. HITH usually occurs only in very soft water.
Do the holes in your angel look something like this? www.jbl.de/onlinehospital/perpicture/hos...l_pictures/005_l.jpg
That's a bacterial infection and there are plenty of decent remedies on the market, just avoid Melafix, Interpet and King British.

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Didihno (Didihno)
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25 Sep 2007 11:48 #3 by Didihno (Didihno)

Replied by Didihno (Didihno) on topic Re:Sick Angelfish

The angel looks nothing like that.
The speckling or pin pricks are tiny red dots.
The spot is a lump on top of the fishs body.
The lump looks like it either burst or was otherwise damaged.
there are no signs of disease on the fishes head or anywhere else.
The fins are all perfect and the fish is nicely coloured.
It isn't eating however, but neither is the Bala.

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Anthony (Anthony)
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25 Sep 2007 14:16 #4 by Anthony (Anthony)

Replied by Anthony (Anthony) on topic Re:Sick Angelfish

Could it have been a pox lump.

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apistodiscus (apistodiscus)
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25 Sep 2007 15:13 #5 by apistodiscus (apistodiscus)

Replied by apistodiscus (apistodiscus) on topic Re:Sick Angelfish

or an open abcess or ulcer. Any chance for a couple of picks?

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Didihno (Didihno)
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26 Sep 2007 08:47 #6 by Didihno (Didihno)

Replied by Didihno (Didihno) on topic Re:Sick Angelfish

I'll get pics sorted tonight.

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Didihno (Didihno)
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03 Oct 2007 12:24 #7 by Didihno (Didihno)

Replied by Didihno (Didihno) on topic Re:Sick Angelfish

This fish has developed what looks like full blown hole in the head.
It is quarantined and sits pretty motionless in the tank, not looking particularly distressed.
A large abcess has opened on its top just in front of its dorsal fin.
It has not eaten now for a whole week.
I'm not going to be able to post pics until then.

I treated it with melafix one day and King British anti fungus last night.
I'm not going to be able to get to a petshop until thursday now, Anthony gave me some octozin but I left it in my mates jeep (idiot).
How long does this poor fish have?

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Didihno (Didihno)
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05 Oct 2007 09:22 #8 by Didihno (Didihno)

Replied by Didihno (Didihno) on topic Re:Sick Angelfish

Too late, I had to destroy the fish last night.
It had lost the will to live and was slipping away.

I've never had to kill a creature that big before, it was not pleasant.
A few hard bangs on the head off the window ledge, there was some blood.
F*ck melafix, it did nothing.
Very dissapointed.

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apistodiscus (apistodiscus)
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05 Oct 2007 10:42 - 05 Oct 2007 10:42 #9 by apistodiscus (apistodiscus)

Replied by apistodiscus (apistodiscus) on topic Re:Sick Angelfish

I agree, Melafix is useless.

But what a blood thirty lot you are turning into. First shovels and now a window ledge :laugh:

All jokes aside. There are ways to put a fish out of its misery that are a. less messy and b. more humane (for the lack of a better word).

-If you are fishing for trout or salmon you will probably own a priest. Go use it.

-you can put the fish into a container and put it in the freezer. Fish are ectotherms and their system will simple shut down ( abit like going to sleep)and it will not cause them any distress or pain.

-get a sharp knife. One quick cut behind the head and sever the spine. Not for the squeemish...

-and now the sissy method: 40 drops of clover oil into an empty film canister. Fill 3/4 with luke warm water, pop the lid on and give it a good shake. put the fish into a small water filled container (300ml of water)and empty the clover oil/water mixture into the container. The fish will be dead inside 5 seconds

Last edit: 05 Oct 2007 10:42 by apistodiscus (apistodiscus).

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Anthony (Anthony)
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05 Oct 2007 10:42 #10 by Anthony (Anthony)

Replied by Anthony (Anthony) on topic Re:Sick Angelfish - Update Dead

Melafix is useless. It only works on minor stuff because these
will rectify themselves with out meds.
I tried it on everything that it claims to cure and it is useles.

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Didihno (Didihno)
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05 Oct 2007 11:38 #11 by Didihno (Didihno)

Replied by Didihno (Didihno) on topic Re:Sick Angelfish - Update Dead

I had heard about clove oil and I intend to get some (where btw?).
It was a horrible experience for both of us, as the first whack (enough to kill a small fish) didn't work, and the fish was so damn slippy it kept falling out of my hand..
Just horrible.
I had trouble sleeping.
I never want to do this again.

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apistodiscus (apistodiscus)
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05 Oct 2007 12:00 #12 by apistodiscus (apistodiscus)

Replied by apistodiscus (apistodiscus) on topic Re:Sick Angelfish - Update Dead

Any pharmacy should have clove oil (it will easy toothaches temporarely). Some health shops stock it as well. Get a priest (tackle shop). It's a lot easier if you have the nerve. One whack and it's fishy heaven.
Funny how many people go fishing and have no problem killing a trout but once it comes to their fish at home get a conscience

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mickeywallace (Michael Wallace Cath Woods)
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05 Oct 2007 13:02 #13 by mickeywallace (Michael Wallace Cath Woods)

Replied by mickeywallace (Michael Wallace Cath Woods) on topic Re:Sick Angelfish

clove oil is the only way, i always have some prepared! just remember to wash hands well afterwards!

Mickey Wallace & Cath Woods

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Peter OB (Peter O'Brien)
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05 Oct 2007 13:03 #14 by Peter OB (Peter O'Brien)

Replied by Peter OB (Peter O'Brien) on topic Re:Sick Angelfish - Update Dead

Holger,

About the freezing method, i've heard that this method is not as humane as its made out to be, any ideas about this.

Euthanasia isn't ideal but it is fact of life for the fishkeeper, I personally think Clove Oil is the best method. Also ensure it is dead after the clove oil by then severing the spine afterwards.

Smoke me a Kipper, I’ll be back for breakfast.

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apistodiscus (apistodiscus)
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05 Oct 2007 13:53 - 05 Oct 2007 13:54 #15 by apistodiscus (apistodiscus)

Replied by apistodiscus (apistodiscus) on topic Re:Sick Angelfish - Update Dead

Now I have seriously opened a can of worms.

Amongst fisheries scientist these days it is believed that fish can't actually feel pain consciously. This has to do with evolutionary brain development. To put it simple. Fish are missing the bits of brain that deal with consciously feeling pain. I give you one example. Take a fish that is hooked in the mouth or worse swallowed the hook even deeper. It will still pull against the angler trying to reel it in. Now imagine yourself with a hook stuck in your mouth, throat or even worse the inside of your stomach. You would not be able to pull against only a minor strain.
I am not getting into ethics here. Been there before and have no wish to start a deeply dividing argument again. Just putting down the most recent scientific research/reasoning.
You can all draw your own conclusions.

Holger

Last edit: 05 Oct 2007 13:54 by apistodiscus (apistodiscus).

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Didihno (Didihno)
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05 Oct 2007 21:23 #16 by Didihno (Didihno)

Replied by Didihno (Didihno) on topic Re:Sick Angelfish - Update Dead

Well, in that case is the fish suffering at all?
Why put in down in the first place if it doesn't know its a goner?

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Anthony (Anthony)
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06 Oct 2007 12:04 #17 by Anthony (Anthony)

Replied by Anthony (Anthony) on topic Re:Sick Angelfish - Update Dead

Put him in a bag and hit him off a wall.

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Carl (Carl M)
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06 Oct 2007 13:03 - 06 Oct 2007 16:47 #18 by Carl (Carl M)

Replied by Carl (Carl M) on topic Re:Sick Angelfish - Update Dead

Had to put down a rather large Pleco once when I could not find anyone to take it.

I wrapped it in a wet towel inside a plastic bag & brought it out to the back garden where I slammed a builder’s block down on it. Very quick for the fish but I still remember it with revolt!

It was a fab Plec but I could not justify keeping it in the size tank I could provide. Had it for 8 years and it had become very friendly. It eat out of my hand and it use to come to the surface & float upside down for me to rub its belly while it wiggled all its fins. R.I.P.

Last edit: 06 Oct 2007 16:47 by Carl (Carl M).

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koinonia (koinonia)
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06 Oct 2007 20:11 #19 by koinonia (koinonia)

Replied by koinonia (koinonia) on topic Re:Sick Angelfish

apistodiscus wrote:

I agree, Melafix is useless.

-and now the sissy method: 40 drops of clover oil into an empty film canister. Fill 3/4 with luke warm water, pop the lid on and give it a good shake. put the fish into a small water filled container (300ml of water)and empty the clover oil/water mixture into the container. The fish will be dead inside 5 seconds

the addendum to this method that i read on another forum was to put the anaestnathised fish( i know..spelling!!) ..the result of the clove oil...into vodka before putting it in the freezer.

i assume it dies a very happy fish:blink:

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Retirement and forum shutdown (17 Jan 2022)

Sick Angelfish - Update Dead