Malawi Cichlid Tank Setup. 2nd Day. 1st Reading

Hey lads

I set up my tank yesterday and used Tetra Safestart to kickstart the cycle (I intend on doing a fishless cycle). Did my first reading just now using the Interpet master test kit and my results are as follows:

Ammonia = 0.1mg/l (lime colour)
Nitrite = 0.1mg/l (pink colour)
Nitrate = 12.5mg/l (darkish yellow colour)
pH = 8.5 (dark green colour)

Temperature seems to be around 26C (what should this roughly be at?)

Tank is a 240l Juwel Rio. Got sand/choral substrate. Using internal filter and external cascade 700


How do my readings look? I want a Malawi cichlid tank. The pH colour was a dark green indicating to me that its around 8.5. The 9.0ph colour looks like a dark blue on the chart but maybe its a really dark green. Can anyone confirm what 9.0 colour is for this kit and if 8.5 is too high for malawi cichlids? I know that I need to get ammonia and nitrites down to 0. What should my nitrates be at?

Will I need to get another kit to test water hardness? Where do I go from here to help get the levels to where they should be? Any help would be greatly appreciated

Thanks

I'm presuming you haven't added any fish as yet. If so, your tank won't cycle unless you use a source of ammonia to build up the required "good" bacteria to start the nitrification process (cycle).

In my opinion, products such as Cycle and Tetra Safestart are pretty useless. Bacteria needs oxygen to survive so it wouldn't be impossible for the necessary bacteria to survive in these products considering they are sealed bottles and sit on the shelves for months before being sold.

For a fishless cycle, many people use fronzen prawns as an ammonia source (which is in place of fish waste which is the source of ammonia when you add fish). Just pop two or three into the tank and let them decay. The decaying process will give off the necessary ammonia. Best to keep them in a net inside the tank as it's less messy and they're easier to remove.

After a few days, you should see your ammonia spike, this will then go to zero in a week or so as the necessary bacteria build up. After this you should see a nitrITE (nitrITE as opposed to nitrATE) spike. This will take longer to go to zero - two or three weeks. Once ammonia and nitrITE are at zero, you're cycled. Just do a 50% water change and add the fish. It's important to add the fish pretty quickly. If you remove the prawns and don't add fish, the good bacteria will start to die off as they won't have any ammonia to feed on.

I used the Interpet test kit and found it pretty useless. It's hard to read the results as the colours don't really match those on the card. It also didn't have a zero reading for ammonia. I had the one that uses tablets - it's also a pain in the arse to get the tablets to dissolve.

I use the API test kit which uses liquid and is very accurate. They had it in Wackers the last time I was in there. You can also get it on eBay. It does ammonia, nitrITE, nitRITE and high and low range PH.

The API kit doesn't do water hardness. I got a Tetra kit in Wackers that does KH and GH. You can read up on these at the link below.

I'll leave the PH question to one of the other guys as I don't keep cichlids. It's best to try and match fish to your PH rather than change it. Changing it can cause rapid PH changes that can kill your fish.

Take a look at the articles regarding cycling and fishless cycling on the site below. I found it very useful.

www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/

Thanks for the prawn tip. Will try that later as I was gonna use fish flakes but dont have any yet. No fish in the tank yet. The interpet kit I have is the liquid set

I'll have a look at that link now

How often should I test the water during the cycle process and when should I do my first water change?

Hi Darren.

I have dissagree with Ksimpson on the bottles of bacteria. IMO they are a good product especially safe water.
I often wondered myself about the fact that these bottles contain no oxygen. Maybe another member can lighten us on teh situation.
I think it has to do with the fact that there is no amomnia in safe water and ammomia will also kill filther bacteria in high doses.
In a tank inviroment if a filther is turned off it has to deal with ammonia with out the help of oxygen to break it down.
But I did hear from a lot of people who use the frozen prawn method to good effect.

On the test kits I have used them all and I compared the results on both the drops and the strips and I got the same readings. I use the strips myself. The colours can be a little hard to distinguish and if you are colour blind then forget it.

I have always use a fish cycle. I stat with cycle or afe water and add fish on the second day. I add bacteria everyday and test the water every second day. If I get ammonia/ nitrite readings I do a water change and add more bacteria. I have never lost a fish this way.
When I got my first tank I bought it second hand and it had about 50 different fish. I had to move these in containers and fill the tank from scratch with tap water.
I lost no fish but I did get white spot from New Tank Syndrom but that was easy to clear up. A couple of fish should be no problem starting off as long as you monitor the water.

Do you know anybody with an established tank. If so, you can kick start your tank from this. Take some of his/her tank water and squeeze his/her`s filther pads in to this water and our it straight into your tank.
It is an excellent way to kick start a tank.
I did this with a 400l discus tank and I placed 10 discus into it the second day and never had a problem.
Some people add substrate from an established tank but I don`t like this method because this is the easiest way to spread a disease.

Best of luck with your new tank.

There's no need to change water if you are fishless cycling. Just do a big change (50%+) when the cycle is complete before you add fish.

The only time you'd change water when cycling is if you were cycling with fish to stop the ammonia and nitrITE getting to lethal levels. As you will have no fish, you don't need to worry about this.

I'd imagine the prawns would be quicker in terms of creating ammonia. Using fish food could be slow as it will take the fish food longer to decompose. You will also need to add a lot of fish food to create sufficient ammonia.

I'll check the levels again tomorrow evening when I get back from college. I added two prawns in a net. I have a friend who has an established tank. I dont know how good his water is though and how well he maintains the tank. Which sponge should I use from his filter?

I have dissagree with Ksimpson on the bottles of bacteria.

I'd be surprised if anybody can explain or prove that these bacteria products work. It just doesn't make sense that the bacteria in the tank will die if it doesn't have an oxygen source, yet these companies claim to sell it in sealed bottles that sit on shelves for months.

Other products that reduce the toxicity of ammonia and nitrITE do appear to work. However, they shouldn't be necessary in a well maintained tank.

. Which sponge should I use from his filter?

Any of them, it doesn't matter. They should all contain beneficial bacteria.

Is it just the ammonia levels I should be checking daily now. Am I right in thinking I can just check that each day now and what I'm looking for is a rise in ammonia followed by 0 ammonia? Then when I get 0 ammonia I can start testing nitrites?

Just to save some time and some of the test kit... the nitrites wont drop until the ammonia goes to zero? Is that right?

It's fine to just concentrate on ammonia for the time being. Firstly bacteria will form to convert the ammonia to nitrITE. Once you start seeing nitrITE (probably before there is zero ammonia), another type of bacteria will form to change the nitrITE to nitrATE. You then reduce nitrATE through weekly water changes (if you have a planted tank, your plants will also absorb some of the nitrATE as a nutrient).

I hope this helps. Good luck and don't be afraid to ask questions.

Thanks. I havent any plants in the tank because I read that cichlids will just eat them. I'll see if anything has changed tomorrow evening. I'll post up the readings then and hopefully at some stage this week get over to get some of my friends filter bacteria. Thanks for the advice

On the qeustion of how bacteria exist in suspension without oxygen...

Most bacteria may be placed into one of three groups based on their response to gaseous oxygen. Aerobic bacteria thrive in the presence of oxygen and require it for their continued growth and existence. Other bacteria are anaerobic, and cannot tolerate gaseous oxygen, such as those bacteria which live in deep underwater sediments, or those which cause bacterial food poisoning. The third group are the facultative anaerobes, which prefer growing in the presence of oxygen, but can continue to grow without it.

Bacteria may also be classified both by the mode by which they obtain their energy. Classified by the source of their energy, bacteria fall into two categories: heterotrophs and autotrophs. Heterotrophs derive energy from breaking down complex organic compounds that they must take in from the environment -- this includes saprobic bacteria found in decaying material, as well as those that rely on fermentation or respiration.

The other group, the autotrophs, fix carbon dioxide to make their own food source; this may be fueled by light energy (photoautotrophic), or by oxidation of nitrogen, sulfur, or other elements (chemoautotrophic). While chemoautotrophs are uncommon, photoautotrophs are common and quite diverse. They include the cyanobacteria, green sulfur bacteria, purple sulfur bacteria, and purple nonsulfur bacteria. The sulfur bacteria are particularly interesting, since they use hydrogen sulfide as hydrogen donor, instead of water like most other photosynthetic organisms, including cyanobacteria.

Some people use Goldfish to cycle tanks because they produce a lot of waste.
Personally I think Quaramis or other Anabantoids are better as they have a modified lung system (labyrinth organ) and can live longer in dirty water.
The ammonia has minimal effect because the Labyrinth organ is their primary breeding organ.

I tested the ammonia levels again. They have risen from 0.1mg/l to 0.4mg/l which was expected with the addition of the two prawns overnight. Over the next few days/weeks this should drop to 0mg/l? Do I just leave the prawns in there?

Do I just leave the prawns in there?

Yes, leave them in there until you have readings of 0 for both ammonia and nitrITE. Only remove them when you are ready to add fish. The good bacteria will need a constant supply of ammonia to feed on.

Make sure an do a 50% water change before you add the fish.

Cheers

Ok my ammonia rised quite high about 2 days ago. After testing this morning I think it might have dropped to 0mg/l. I tested nitrites again and they are still very high so I'm hoping these will drop in another few days

The prawns in the tank are growing a white fur.... should I take them out or is that normal?

Thanks

The prawns in the tank are growing a white fur.... should I take them out or is that normal?

Leave them there. You will need an ammonia source right up to the time you add fish. If there is no ammonia, your good bacteria will start to die off.

Huge drop in Nitrites since yesterdays reading. Still a slight bit though I reckon it will be fully cycled by tomorrow judging by just how much the levels dropped since yesterday. Just need to get the last test to check water hardness. Hopefully get some fish on maybe thurs/fri once I'm happy with the water in the tank

One thing I noticed is..... early in the morning the temp can drop as low as 23C and during the day though it can shoot up to 27/28C depending on the weather outside. This cant be good for fish right? Is there anyway I can compensate for these changes in temperature? Is there heaters available with a built in thermostat perhaps that adjusts the heater according to the overall temperature outside?

The tank is in a room out the back so theres no heating/thermostat in the room

Thanks

Looks like you're making good progress on the cycling.

Can you let me know the size of the tank and the wattage of the heater you have in there?

All heaters have built in termostats so should regulate a fairly steady temperature. Either your heater is malfunctioning or it's not big enough for your tank.

Your correct in your assumption that major temperature swings will not be good for your fish.

240 litre Juwel Rio. Built in filter/heater. Think its rated at 200w but I'll do a quick google now and check

Edit: Yep.. 200W according to Juwel's website

Sounds like the thermostat is not working properly if you are experiencing major temperature swings. If it's a new tank, I'd take the heater back and get it replaced. You should be able to get a replacement pretty handy. They're not that expensive if you have to buy it.

My tank fluctuates up, but its not the heater thats set at 76 and can go as high as 82 if its a warm day, but never goes below 76.

This is an interesting read.To be honest there is a wide variety of methods of cycling,presonally I think personality has alot to do with it!!Some people are prepared to take educated and calculated risks and others are not.
The longest I have ever waited to CYCLE a tank is the time it took to fill the tank with water and heat the water.I put filter squeezings into the tank,substrate and rocks from an established tank (pre-calculated). I add fish straight away but not too many.Theres a bit of maths involved regarding waste per fish (==>ammonia==>nitrite==>nitrate all in safe levels) but Im not gonna get technical (zebadee!!!!!!).Just dont think you can get away with 20 fish,however I always start a new tank with fry so....!