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Retirement and forum shutdown (17 Jan 2022)
Hi,
John Howell who has managed the forum for years is getting on and wishes to retire from the role of managing it.
Over the years, he has managed the forum through good days and bad days and he has always been fair.
He has managed to bring his passion for fish keeping to the forum and keep it going for so long.
I wish to thank John for his hard work in keeping the forum going.
With John wishing to "retire" from the role of managing the forum and the forum receiving very little traffic, I think we must agree that forum has come to a natural conclusion and it's time to put it to rest.
I am proposing that the forum be made read-only from March 2022 onwards and that no new users or content be created. The website is still registered for several more years, so the content will still be accessible but no new topics or replies will be allowed.
If there is interest from the ITFS or other fish keeping clubs, we may redirect traffic to them or to a Facebook group but will not actively manage it.
I'd like to thank everyone over the years who helped with forum, posted a reply, started a new topic, ask a question and helped a newbie in fish keeping. And thank you to the sponsors who helped us along the away. Hopefully it made the hobby stronger.
I'd especially like to thank John Howell and Valerie Rousseau for all of their contributions, without them the forum would have never been has successful.
Thank you
Darragh Sherwin
Sick Mbuna
- Darren (Darren)
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29 Nov 2006 08:21 #1
by Darren (Darren)
Sick Mbuna was created by Darren (Darren)
Out of my 3 caeruleus, one of them never seemed to go for the food when I put it in. The other 5 fish usually take it no problem. Feeding a mix of tetra veg pro and frozen cichlid mix
I noticed over the last few days that the caeruleus that wasnt eating looked noticibly smaller than all of the other fish in the tank who seem to have grown a bit compared to the small guy
I've just check in on my fish now and found the small guy rotating. He cant stay still or swim straight. He's constantly turning over but is still alive as he is responsive to other fish and movements outside the tank
I changed the water a day or two ago and all seemed fine. I've tested the water levels again today and there are no dangerous levels of anything in the tank. There's plenty of oxegen in the tank
Anyone know whats wrong? Is the fish gonna die in the next short while because it looks like he is.
I noticed over the last few days that the caeruleus that wasnt eating looked noticibly smaller than all of the other fish in the tank who seem to have grown a bit compared to the small guy
I've just check in on my fish now and found the small guy rotating. He cant stay still or swim straight. He's constantly turning over but is still alive as he is responsive to other fish and movements outside the tank
I changed the water a day or two ago and all seemed fine. I've tested the water levels again today and there are no dangerous levels of anything in the tank. There's plenty of oxegen in the tank
Anyone know whats wrong? Is the fish gonna die in the next short while because it looks like he is.
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- tanks_alot (Denis Coghlan)
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29 Nov 2006 09:38 #2
by tanks_alot (Denis Coghlan)
Lead me not into temptation, For I can find it myself!
Replied by tanks_alot (Denis Coghlan) on topic Re: Sick Mbuna
IMO it sounds like it is more than likely an internal problem. If it was any other mbuna then I might point the finger at bloat but because caeruleus are omnivorous and can handle protein in their diets they seldom get it.
This leads me to believe that it is more than likely an internal bacterial infection that is affecting its swim bladder and also the appetite of the fish. I would like to see what other peoples opinion are on this before I would suggest a course of treatment as many opinions are better than one.
The other thing it could be is that the fish could be holding or having a pseudo hold (which sometimes happens). This would result in the lack of appetite, this in tern will cause the fish to show funny swimming behaviour as it is in a state of starvation.
How long has this behaviour been going on for?
This leads me to believe that it is more than likely an internal bacterial infection that is affecting its swim bladder and also the appetite of the fish. I would like to see what other peoples opinion are on this before I would suggest a course of treatment as many opinions are better than one.
The other thing it could be is that the fish could be holding or having a pseudo hold (which sometimes happens). This would result in the lack of appetite, this in tern will cause the fish to show funny swimming behaviour as it is in a state of starvation.
How long has this behaviour been going on for?
Lead me not into temptation, For I can find it myself!
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- Darren (Darren)
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29 Nov 2006 09:47 #3
by Darren (Darren)
Replied by Darren (Darren) on topic Re: Sick Mbuna
He wasnt spinning last night. He is spinning since I checked in on him today. He hasnt stopped in the last few hours
I've also noticed that he has a dark spot behind his side fin and another small one on his side on the same side. He is spinning into that side
Here is a video of him:
www.megaupload.com/?d=5EJPC8S1
I've also noticed that he has a dark spot behind his side fin and another small one on his side on the same side. He is spinning into that side
Here is a video of him:
www.megaupload.com/?d=5EJPC8S1
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- tanks_alot (Denis Coghlan)
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29 Nov 2006 10:05 #4
by tanks_alot (Denis Coghlan)
Lead me not into temptation, For I can find it myself!
Replied by tanks_alot (Denis Coghlan) on topic Re: Sick Mbuna
If the fish is actually "spinning" around in circles, I would rule out holding. It if was at the end of a holding period, it would only be slightly listing from side to side and not moving very much and making lots of mouth movements.
Have you changed to a different declorinator recently?
Can you also give a brief description of the tank and setup?
Have you changed to a different declorinator recently?
Can you also give a brief description of the tank and setup?
Lead me not into temptation, For I can find it myself!
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- ChrisM (ChrisM)
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29 Nov 2006 10:14 #5
by ChrisM (ChrisM)
Replied by ChrisM (ChrisM) on topic Re: Sick Mbuna
Link not working.
Here is my guess,
If he is the smallest of the caeruleas he is probably being bullied off his food.This will have weakened him making him susceptable to internal bacteria and a whole list of things like untestable elements entering the tank as result of a water change.The other fish obviously have stronger immune systems and therefore are still healthy.
Is the fish male or female?
Is it scratching itself off anything.
How long is it since it ate anything.
Usually spinning is the death dance of a fish but it seems to be staying alive a long time with this condition!
Here is my guess,
If he is the smallest of the caeruleas he is probably being bullied off his food.This will have weakened him making him susceptable to internal bacteria and a whole list of things like untestable elements entering the tank as result of a water change.The other fish obviously have stronger immune systems and therefore are still healthy.
Is the fish male or female?
Is it scratching itself off anything.
How long is it since it ate anything.
Usually spinning is the death dance of a fish but it seems to be staying alive a long time with this condition!
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- Darren (Darren)
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29 Nov 2006 10:15 #6
by Darren (Darren)
Replied by Darren (Darren) on topic Re: Sick Mbuna
Rio 240 litre tank. Coral sand substrate. Internal and external filter. Performed a water 20% change yesterday. Use Stress Coat to remove chlorine(have used this since the start). All ph,nitrite,ammonia levels etc are safe. Think nitrate is about 25mg/l which according to my test kit is acceptable for cichlids
I really think it might have something to do with these strange marks on the side of the fish. One is directly behind his fin (close to where it meets his body)
You can see how he is spinning in the video (you have to enter those letters into the box at the top to commence download )
I think it might be female. It doesnt have one of those spots on the back of the fin under the body
I really think it might have something to do with these strange marks on the side of the fish. One is directly behind his fin (close to where it meets his body)
You can see how he is spinning in the video (you have to enter those letters into the box at the top to commence download )
I think it might be female. It doesnt have one of those spots on the back of the fin under the body
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- tanks_alot (Denis Coghlan)
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29 Nov 2006 10:22 #7
by tanks_alot (Denis Coghlan)
Lead me not into temptation, For I can find it myself!
Replied by tanks_alot (Denis Coghlan) on topic Re: Sick Mbuna
Link isnt working for me either
Can you upload the video onto youtube.com or photobucket.com
edit:::: Didn't see the part about entering the letters, will have another look now
edit:: edit:: I just watched the video, boy is that fish spinning. I wasn't able to make out the marks that you mentioned.
I'm afraid that it doesn't look good. Its stomach is very sunken and even if you do treat the fish with medication I wouldn't think it would have the reserves left to help fight off the infection (or whatever the actual problem is).
The marks that you mentioned are they on any of the other fish?
Can you upload the video onto youtube.com or photobucket.com
edit:::: Didn't see the part about entering the letters, will have another look now
edit:: edit:: I just watched the video, boy is that fish spinning. I wasn't able to make out the marks that you mentioned.
I'm afraid that it doesn't look good. Its stomach is very sunken and even if you do treat the fish with medication I wouldn't think it would have the reserves left to help fight off the infection (or whatever the actual problem is).
The marks that you mentioned are they on any of the other fish?
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- ChrisM (ChrisM)
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29 Nov 2006 10:37 #8
by ChrisM (ChrisM)
Replied by ChrisM (ChrisM) on topic Re: Sick Mbuna
Remove the fish and terminate it if you feel it is dying slowly IMO.It has a serious infection or enough damage done which has effected its nervous system.
I dont think it is worth prolonging.I have seen Caeruleas with severe white spot that didnt act that eraticly.
If you have a seperate tank put in there and turn off lights.
PS I have never seen a cichlid act like that before,or heard of it and Im keeping them over 5 years now.
I dont think it is worth prolonging.I have seen Caeruleas with severe white spot that didnt act that eraticly.
If you have a seperate tank put in there and turn off lights.
PS I have never seen a cichlid act like that before,or heard of it and Im keeping them over 5 years now.
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- Darren (Darren)
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29 Nov 2006 10:40 #9
by Darren (Darren)
Replied by Darren (Darren) on topic Re: Sick Mbuna
Yes I think it might be best to take him out. I've no quarantine tank so if you think there's no hope for him then I'll take him out. Dont want it to suffer
Can I ask how much and how often you feed your fish? I think he may have been bullied off his food as he is quite a bit smaller than the two other caeruleus in the tank which always are first to go for food. Also the maingano get their fair share as well
Can I ask how much and how often you feed your fish? I think he may have been bullied off his food as he is quite a bit smaller than the two other caeruleus in the tank which always are first to go for food. Also the maingano get their fair share as well
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- tanks_alot (Denis Coghlan)
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29 Nov 2006 10:53 #10
by tanks_alot (Denis Coghlan)
Lead me not into temptation, For I can find it myself!
Replied by tanks_alot (Denis Coghlan) on topic Re: Sick Mbuna
If the maingano are getting enough food then I would have expected that all the labs would have too. Your tank is understocked so I cant imagine that the fish in question would not have been able to get enough food. Labs are notorious pigs and when it comes to feeding they will always get a good share.
To answer your question. I feed my mbuna once a day with Tetra Pro Veg
and spirulina granules. Then with shelled peas ever three days and frozen cichlid mix when I feel like opening the freezer.
It sounds to me like this fish already had the problem when you purchased it.
To answer your question. I feed my mbuna once a day with Tetra Pro Veg
and spirulina granules. Then with shelled peas ever three days and frozen cichlid mix when I feel like opening the freezer.
It sounds to me like this fish already had the problem when you purchased it.
Lead me not into temptation, For I can find it myself!
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- ChrisM (ChrisM)
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29 Nov 2006 10:54 #11
by ChrisM (ChrisM)
Replied by ChrisM (ChrisM) on topic Re: Sick Mbuna
Once or twice a day.
I underfeed my Mbuna.They can go for over a week with no food,though its not recommended,underfeeding is better than overfeeding.Mbuna are vegetarians so avoid frozen high protein foods,unless they are fed as a treat once a week!
I usually feed enough so that each fish ,largest to the smallest gets at least one morsel into their mouth a day.Obviously some get more but never overfeed in the hope the little guy will get some.It ends up effecting all your fish through bad water quality!!
Disperse the food,put a good amount at one end of the tank,all the big guys will eat this then swim off,at this stage put another smaller amount at the other end,to give all fish a chance.This will provide plenty of smaller morsels for the small fish to eat
I underfeed my Mbuna.They can go for over a week with no food,though its not recommended,underfeeding is better than overfeeding.Mbuna are vegetarians so avoid frozen high protein foods,unless they are fed as a treat once a week!
I usually feed enough so that each fish ,largest to the smallest gets at least one morsel into their mouth a day.Obviously some get more but never overfeed in the hope the little guy will get some.It ends up effecting all your fish through bad water quality!!
Disperse the food,put a good amount at one end of the tank,all the big guys will eat this then swim off,at this stage put another smaller amount at the other end,to give all fish a chance.This will provide plenty of smaller morsels for the small fish to eat
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- Darren (Darren)
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29 Nov 2006 11:02 #12
by Darren (Darren)
Replied by Darren (Darren) on topic Re: Sick Mbuna
I have been feeding one cichlid mix cube each evening. And every 2-3 days feeding some veg pro flake in the morning in addition to the cubes. Should I concentrate more on feeding the veg pro and only feed the frozen cichlid mix every 2-3 days instead?
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- Sean (Fr. Jack)
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29 Nov 2006 12:53 #13
by Sean (Fr. Jack)
That would be a ecumenical matter!!!
Replied by Sean (Fr. Jack) on topic Re: Sick Mbuna
I have seen this problem before, the disease did not come in from a water change or even some new fish, the bacterium is present at a very low level in all healthy aquarium, but the fish has enough immunity to stop coming down with this disease.
Your tanks it too understocked, you have two choices, either have just one fish or a large number, the large number will dilute the fighting and the stress, this fish has been picked on, he is not emancipated (skinny), but has been so stress out that the bacteria streptococcal has taken over in this fish and gone to the brain and the central nervous system, if it was just the swimming bladder bacterial problems, he would swim like a deep sea diver without lead weaights, this fish is "mad" a bit like mad cow disease. There is a 100% mortality change in this fish, with the rest of the fish a 10 % change of mortality raising by 10% every hour after this fish dies, the reason for this is when the fish eventually dies, and the cannibalism starts, the bacterial pathogen will be transmitted orally, so when the heathy fish take a "mouth full of mad cow disease brains or even tissue from the abdomen this is going to turn nasty on you. On fish farms the workers have had 0% mortality rate, but older people over 65years with heath problem and open soars or cuts have contracted it an in some extreme cases without antibiotic treatment have croaked.
Your tanks it too understocked, you have two choices, either have just one fish or a large number, the large number will dilute the fighting and the stress, this fish has been picked on, he is not emancipated (skinny), but has been so stress out that the bacteria streptococcal has taken over in this fish and gone to the brain and the central nervous system, if it was just the swimming bladder bacterial problems, he would swim like a deep sea diver without lead weaights, this fish is "mad" a bit like mad cow disease. There is a 100% mortality change in this fish, with the rest of the fish a 10 % change of mortality raising by 10% every hour after this fish dies, the reason for this is when the fish eventually dies, and the cannibalism starts, the bacterial pathogen will be transmitted orally, so when the heathy fish take a "mouth full of mad cow disease brains or even tissue from the abdomen this is going to turn nasty on you. On fish farms the workers have had 0% mortality rate, but older people over 65years with heath problem and open soars or cuts have contracted it an in some extreme cases without antibiotic treatment have croaked.
That would be a ecumenical matter!!!
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- Darren (Darren)
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29 Nov 2006 13:15 #14
by Darren (Darren)
Replied by Darren (Darren) on topic Re: Sick Mbuna
Thanks. I was hoping to add 6 more fish in the last week but I'm finding it hard to find time to get to the petshop as I'm really busy in college at the moment. I intend on adding more fish anyway its just been the fish in it since I set up the tank up until now. I'll try to get some more this weekend
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- Anthony (Anthony)
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01 Dec 2006 12:57 #15
by Anthony (Anthony)
Replied by Anthony (Anthony) on topic Re: Sick Mbuna
Frozen cichlid mix is actually beefheart with veg.
I would not feed any Malawi cichlids Beefheart. Has he a swollen belly or Anus.
As a last resort I would beth him in epsom salts for an hour and see if he
passes any blockages.
A couple of spoonfuls in a 10 litre bucket should be enough.
I would not feed any Malawi cichlids Beefheart. Has he a swollen belly or Anus.
As a last resort I would beth him in epsom salts for an hour and see if he
passes any blockages.
A couple of spoonfuls in a 10 litre bucket should be enough.
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