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Retirement and forum shutdown (17 Jan 2022)

Hi,

John Howell who has managed the forum for years is getting on and wishes to retire from the role of managing it.
Over the years, he has managed the forum through good days and bad days and he has always been fair.
He has managed to bring his passion for fish keeping to the forum and keep it going for so long.

I wish to thank John for his hard work in keeping the forum going.

With John wishing to "retire" from the role of managing the forum and the forum receiving very little traffic, I think we must agree that forum has come to a natural conclusion and it's time to put it to rest.

I am proposing that the forum be made read-only from March 2022 onwards and that no new users or content be created. The website is still registered for several more years, so the content will still be accessible but no new topics or replies will be allowed.

If there is interest from the ITFS or other fish keeping clubs, we may redirect traffic to them or to a Facebook group but will not actively manage it.

I'd like to thank everyone over the years who helped with forum, posted a reply, started a new topic, ask a question and helped a newbie in fish keeping. And thank you to the sponsors who helped us along the away. Hopefully it made the hobby stronger.

I'd especially like to thank John Howell and Valerie Rousseau for all of their contributions, without them the forum would have never been has successful.

Thank you
Darragh Sherwin

What type of Ammonia to use in cycling?

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15 Mar 2007 18:47 #1 by scorphonic (Kieran Crosbie Staunton)
Hello everyone. I began to cycle my dads Rio 180 three days ago. It comes with the whole filter set up. There are so many different filter components in there...is it necessary to have the carbon one in? or the nitrate one?

Anyway, my main question is about what type of ammonia to use to cycle the tank. I began to use Ammonium Hydroxide (Tank is about 6ppm) but have found that the pH has become quite basic coz of the -OH ions (pH7 ---> pH8). I also have some Ammonium Chloride which is 99.5% pure, would this be better?? I dont think the ammonium chloride can alter the pH all that much.

What do you all think?

I'm not going to do a fish aided cycle...wouldn't want to mess up and hurt the poor things. Do you think if the product "Cycle" can add bacteria to the filter and add a bit of speed to the process?

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16 Mar 2007 02:38 #2 by essjay (S Jackson)
have a look at the topic I started when I was doing a fishless cycle using hardware store bought ammonia and tetra safestart to add the bacteria. The cycle took 8 days, and the fish are thriving now. Not one casualty.

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  • Valerie (Valerie)
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16 Mar 2007 02:42 #3 by Valerie (Valerie)
Replied by Valerie (Valerie) on topic Re: What type of Ammonia to use in cycling?
Hi Scorphonic,

There are several schools of thought on cycling a tank ... and I am sure you will find that there are people who have other methods that are equally good as the ones below.
The idea is to create ammonia which will transform itself into nitrite and then into nitrate by the means of bacteria.

1./ Fishless Cycling
-If you can get a sponge or gravel from an already established tank, you will introduce the bacteria to your tank and cycle quicker.
- You can also add Nutrafin's Cycle to your tank which contains the bacteria and will help cycling your tank.
- You can also feed your tank with flakes, though there are no fish in the tank. The food will decompose, create ammonia and get the cycle going too.
- You can also add ammonia as shown by Essjay in irishfishkeepers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=949

2./ Cycling with fish
In theory, your water does not have any ammonia or nitrite when coming out of the tap. If you then add 6 hardy fish such as Danios in your 180l (use AquaPlus to dechlorinate) and do small water changes regularly (check your parameters to be sure they don't get exposed to too high levels of ammonia/nitrite), then, the bacteria will start developing and the cycle will start.

In my Rio180, this is what I have done :



The fish seems to be happy ...

Best of luck in your venture, plenty of learning to be done and also plenty of good people to help on this forum !

Valerie

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16 Mar 2007 04:40 #4 by apistodiscus (apistodiscus)
Replied by apistodiscus (apistodiscus) on topic Re: What type of Ammonia to use in cycling?
get rid of the carbon filter and I wouldn't use the nitrate pad either. No point since it will take out the nitrate you will need to get your nitrobacters started. Put it in once cycled

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  • Anthony (Anthony)
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16 Mar 2007 10:18 #5 by Anthony (Anthony)
Replied by Anthony (Anthony) on topic Re: What type of Ammonia to use in cycling?
I used cycle with safe water and it worked well for me.

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17 Mar 2007 07:59 #6 by scorphonic (Kieran Crosbie Staunton)
Thanks for the relpies everyone, I'm still a bit stumped about what type of ammonia to use. I have ammonium hydroxide and ammonium chloride at home. I have heard that the NH4OH can cause pH changes while the NH4Cl doesn't. I would consider myself pretty good at chemistry but dont want to take the chance at putting any chloride ions into the water if they happen to hurt the fish.

I'll take out the carbon and the nitrate sponges tonight. I've bought the Cycle yesterday in Wackers pet store on Parnell street (manager was really nice too!). Put that in the tank last night and there was certainly a change in the ammonia too...but no nitrite yet which is strange!!

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  • Valerie (Valerie)
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17 Mar 2007 08:15 #7 by Valerie (Valerie)
Replied by Valerie (Valerie) on topic Re: What type of Ammonia to use in cycling?
The link below explains the nitrification cycle and the graph shows there are a few days between the appearance of ammonia and its transformation into nitrite ; the same goes for nitrates.

fins.actwin.com/mirror/begin-cycling.html

Happy St Patrick's !!

Valerie

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18 Mar 2007 16:08 #8 by scorphonic (Kieran Crosbie Staunton)
I tested the ammonia today as I do every day since I'm cycling the 180 L tank using the ammonium hydroxide. The levels have remained fairly constant and tonight there seems to be a decrease from ~4ppm to ~2ppm. I added in the product cycle yesterday and so it seems to be working.

The strange thing is this: I also tested for nitrIte and nitrAtes. I found that the level of nitrite was just about 0.5ppm and the nitrates was also about 0.5ppm. How can this be if the level of nitrites is quite low!!

To try to figure this out I tested the tap water that filled the tank and it came up negative for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate!!

Am I just lucky to be getting these readings and should I just carry on without doing anything to the tank. Now its important for me to say that two days ago I did increase the water temperature from about 24 to about 28/30, I added cycle and I also fitted a 12" air stone in the tank to increase the oxygen levels along with a 1/2" airstone for a water feature.

Any suggestions would be helpful!!

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19 Mar 2007 02:25 #9 by Sean (Fr. Jack)

The strange thing is this: I also tested for nitrIte and nitrAtes. I found that the level of nitrite was just about 0.5ppm and the nitrates was also about 0.5ppm. How can this be if the level of nitrites is quite low!!

To try to figure this out I tested the tap water that filled the tank and it came up negative for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate!!

!


The best way of explaining this is imagine the ammonia is a small pond in the hills and its 5cm deep and it spills over into another small pond that is also 5 cm deep the this spill-es into a pond down stream that is 100cm deep, the top and middle ponds has a weir so no matter how much it rains it can only get 5cm deep (NH3)the same with the middle one(NO2) now the bottom pod has no outlet so it continued to rise (NO3) until its pump out (water changes)

If you look back at some of the old post is talks about the same sort of thing, basically just worded another way.

That would be a ecumenical matter!!!

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  • Anthony (Anthony)
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19 Mar 2007 07:42 #10 by Anthony (Anthony)
Replied by Anthony (Anthony) on topic Re: What type of Ammonia to use in cycling?
Its nice to see Sean being Philosopical. or is it Ecuminical.

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19 Mar 2007 13:39 #11 by KenS (Ken Simpson)
I'm not sure about the types of ammonia you're using. I know that 100% ammonia is recommended and is difficult to source in Ireland.

You can also use prawns and allow them to decompose in your tank. It sounds messy, but does work.

I haven't heard good things about using fish food. You would need to add a lot to a tank the size of yours to create the necessary ammonia.

Make sure you do a sizeable water change before you add fish (50%+).

Regards,

Ken.

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19 Mar 2007 21:02 #12 by Anthony (Anthony)
Replied by Anthony (Anthony) on topic Re: What type of Ammonia to use in cycling?
I heard good things about the Prawns myself. Ammonis is highy dangerous and will destroy the linings/membranes (can`t remember the name) of your lungs permanently if inhaled for long enough.

I always use cycle/safewater and Gouramis to cycle a tank if I don`t have a mature filther to kick start it.
Have always added fish from day one but not recommending it to beginners.

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20 Mar 2007 21:18 #13 by scorphonic (Kieran Crosbie Staunton)
Thanks for the replies everyone!! I understand the cycle alright, i was just a bit confused about how nitrates could read the same level as nitrites if the ammonia only decreased by a small amount. I'm no stranger to all this testing since I work in a research lab every other day!!! :lol:

I was going to put fish in from day one using Tetra safestart but instead I put in the ammonium solution and a bottle and a half of tetra. Since I got a Tetratec EX700 external pump yesterday I'm going to wait for the bacterial colony to build up in both the internal and external filter. I also invested in an API master test kit and its a million times better than the other water test kit I was using. Now I know for sure that there are NO nitrites and NO nitrates in the tank while there is a stable amount of ammonia (4ppm) and it hasn't changed in the past two days.

I'll be testing daily waiting waiting waiting for it to go down...that will be an exciting day!! I just want to know if this cycle is actually working because at the moment its not doing anything....I'll just have to be patient and give it time eh!!

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