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Retirement and forum shutdown (17 Jan 2022)

Hi,

John Howell who has managed the forum for years is getting on and wishes to retire from the role of managing it.
Over the years, he has managed the forum through good days and bad days and he has always been fair.
He has managed to bring his passion for fish keeping to the forum and keep it going for so long.

I wish to thank John for his hard work in keeping the forum going.

With John wishing to "retire" from the role of managing the forum and the forum receiving very little traffic, I think we must agree that forum has come to a natural conclusion and it's time to put it to rest.

I am proposing that the forum be made read-only from March 2022 onwards and that no new users or content be created. The website is still registered for several more years, so the content will still be accessible but no new topics or replies will be allowed.

If there is interest from the ITFS or other fish keeping clubs, we may redirect traffic to them or to a Facebook group but will not actively manage it.

I'd like to thank everyone over the years who helped with forum, posted a reply, started a new topic, ask a question and helped a newbie in fish keeping. And thank you to the sponsors who helped us along the away. Hopefully it made the hobby stronger.

I'd especially like to thank John Howell and Valerie Rousseau for all of their contributions, without them the forum would have never been has successful.

Thank you
Darragh Sherwin

Donate some live bacterial medium to Meath guy??

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24 Mar 2007 06:58 #1 by scorphonic (Kieran Crosbie Staunton)
Hello everyone!!

The cycle in my tank has yet to start. Its been running for about two weeks but nothing has started yet EDIT even though I have added in Ammonia from day one and the level of ammonia has yet to drop.

Anyone near Dunshaughlin care to donate some bacteria from an established tank?

You can PM me if you dont want to post here!! :)

Thanks :D

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24 Mar 2007 14:20 #2 by Didihno (Didihno)
Replied by Didihno (Didihno) on topic Re: Donate some live bacterial medium to Meath guy??
If you are ever passing through Balbriggan I'll give you some.

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24 Mar 2007 14:28 #3 by ChrisM (ChrisM)
Replied by ChrisM (ChrisM) on topic Re: Donate some live bacterial medium to Meath guy??
When you say running what do you mean?

For the cycle to be running you must have a constant supply of Ammonia or waste to establish and keep bacteria alive and to help new bacteria develop.I will gladly give you some filter squeezings from a healthy 775 litre Malawi setup.I will be passing through Dunshaughlin next Saturday (by Paws and Claws) at around 10am.PM me if you are interested.

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24 Mar 2007 14:47 #4 by scorphonic (Kieran Crosbie Staunton)
Cool, thanks for the replies!!

Would the bacteria survive for long outside of the tank without the necessary ammonia, oxygen etc??

O and once I get my darn motorbike fixed on Tuesday I can come to collect if that suits anyone!!

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24 Mar 2007 15:01 #5 by ChrisM (ChrisM)
Replied by ChrisM (ChrisM) on topic Re: Donate some live bacterial medium to Meath guy??
A food source isnt the primary concern when they (bacteria) are out of the filter.Oxygen is the biggest enemy.They start to die off after 1 hour without oxygen so I am guessing here but Id say you would have a few hours to do the transfer,maybe 5 before they all die off.

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24 Mar 2007 15:01 #6 by KenS (Ken Simpson)
Filter bacteria should last 2-3 hours without oxygen/ammonia. It would be better to keep it no more than two hours before adding to your tank.

What are you using for an ammonia source in your tank? Fish?

Regards,

Ken.

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24 Mar 2007 15:17 #7 by russell (russell)
Replied by russell (russell) on topic Feeding Filter
Another old remedy is to stick a couple of Goldfish in to get the cycle going. no chance of cross contamination ! It's the waste from the fish that gets the cycle going!!!!!!!!!

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24 Mar 2007 15:23 #8 by scorphonic (Kieran Crosbie Staunton)
I'm using ammonium hydroxide as the source of ammonia.

Cool...2 - 3 hours is plenty of time!!

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25 Mar 2007 11:32 #9 by Sean (Fr. Jack)
Does any know if one strips down a marine tank to change over to african, can one use the filter medium i.e does the same bacteria cross over :roll:

That would be a ecumenical matter!!!

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25 Mar 2007 12:11 #10 by ChrisM (ChrisM)
Replied by ChrisM (ChrisM) on topic Re: Donate some live bacterial medium to Meath guy??
Hi Sean,

I remember reading an article about this very matter.I will try to find it.Bear with me as I am easily sidetracked.

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25 Mar 2007 12:28 #11 by ChrisM (ChrisM)
Replied by ChrisM (ChrisM) on topic Re: Donate some live bacterial medium to Meath guy??
fins.actwin.com/mirror/sbegin-longterm.html

Saltwater nitrifying bacteria are different than freshwater nitrifying bacteria, so they must be cultured from scratch. As a note, nitrifying bacteria seem to be pH and temperature sensitive. So moving some gravel from a warm saltwater tank (~85F/24C) to a temperate saltwater tank (72F/21C) will shock the bacteria enough to nullify any advantage from using the gravel (e.g., to shorten the cycle time).


As I said before I am not too sure about this but remembered reading this a few months ago and thought it applied slightly even though it mentions the reverse of what you intend to do.

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26 Mar 2007 04:53 #12 by Processor (Niall O'Leary)
I'm in Navan and I can give you a bucket of of my sponge squeezings.
Will probably be doing it this week sometime.

PM me for details.

Processor.

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26 Mar 2007 11:38 #13 by scorphonic (Kieran Crosbie Staunton)
PM sent to ya there Processor.

Just out of interest, when I do get the bacteria do I simply pour it into the tank or pour some directly into the internal filter and some into the external filter?

I'm still willing to meet with you ChrisM when you come through Dunshaughlin this saturday...the more the merrier!!

Thanks everyone!! 8)

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26 Mar 2007 14:44 #14 by KenS (Ken Simpson)
Put it in both filters. It will start to multiplyl and hopfully you should be cycled in a week or so.

Regards,

Ken.

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26 Mar 2007 16:35 #15 by scorphonic (Kieran Crosbie Staunton)
O brilliant..thanks for the info Ken!! :D

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27 Mar 2007 01:40 #16 by Sean (Fr. Jack)

fins.actwin.com/mirror/sbegin-longterm.html

Saltwater nitrifying bacteria are different than freshwater nitrifying bacteria, so they must be cultured from scratch. As a note, nitrifying bacteria seem to be pH and temperature sensitive. So moving some gravel from a warm saltwater tank (~85F/24C) to a temperate saltwater tank (72F/21C) will shock the bacteria enough to nullify any advantage from using the gravel (e.g., to shorten the cycle time).


As I said before I am not too sure about this but remembered reading this a few months ago and thought it applied slightly even though it mentions the reverse of what you intend to do.


Thanks chris I thought that to but was not 100% sure, I find it funny you can buy bacteria in a bottle off the self and use it to seed a salt wter tank or freshwater using the SAME bacteria!

That would be a ecumenical matter!!!

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27 Mar 2007 09:00 #17 by apistodiscus (apistodiscus)
Replied by apistodiscus (apistodiscus) on topic Re: Donate some live bacterial medium to Meath guy??
What product are you talking about? The ones I have seen are freshwater only.

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27 Mar 2007 09:08 #18 by ChrisM (ChrisM)
Replied by ChrisM (ChrisM) on topic Re: Donate some live bacterial medium to Meath guy??
Makes you wonder Sean,are we being conned?

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27 Mar 2007 11:14 #19 by Sean (Fr. Jack)

What product are you talking about? The ones I have seen are freshwater only.


Holger
don´t know never bought one as I think its a con, and only slighly speeds up the cycle I always believed in seeding from a dirty tank, do any one know if you can buy bacteria in a bottle for marines? if so does it say for fresh water use to?

Basically I assume you can, if this is not the case sorry for making an assumption/misleading the forum to thinking there is.

That would be a ecumenical matter!!!

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27 Mar 2007 19:09 #20 by scorphonic (Kieran Crosbie Staunton)
Hemmmm....I'm confused!!

Checked the water conditions tonight (or should I say this morning!!)

The ammonia levels had gone from about 2ppm two days ago to about 1 yesterday and when I got home tonight it was near zero....so I quickly tested the Nitrites and got 0ppm and now after about three hours of adding in more ammonia I tested the Nitrites again and still 0ppm....but get this...the Nitrates are at about 10 to 20 (the colour is difficult to completely distinguish...probably about 15!!)

So whats the story? Last week my Nitrates were definately 0ppm, my Nitrites were 0ppm and my ammonia was mostly kept at 4ppm until yesterday or so!!

This is strange! Anyway, processor has been great!! Meeting him tomorrow to get some bacterial sludge!! :D So with these chemicals present I believe that the tank will be buzzing with life by next week...I'm hoping!!

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28 Mar 2007 01:38 #21 by Sean (Fr. Jack)
Why are you confused?

www.irishfishkeepers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1087

Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 9:25 am Post subject:


scorphonic wrote:

The strange thing is this: I also tested for nitrIte and nitrAtes. I found that the level of nitrite was just about 0.5ppm and the nitrates was also about 0.5ppm. How can this be if the level of nitrites is quite low!!

To try to figure this out I tested the tap water that filled the tank and it came up negative for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate!!

!


The best way of explaining this is imagine the ammonia is a small pond in the hills and its 5cm deep and it spills over into another small pond that is also 5 cm deep the this spill-es into a pond down stream that is 100cm deep, the top and middle ponds has a weir so no matter how much it rains it can only get 5cm deep (NH3)the same with the middle one(NO2) now the bottom pod has no outlet so it continued to rise (NO3) until its pump out (water changes)

If you look back at some of the old post is talks about the same sort of thing, basically just worded another way.



_________________
That would be a ecumenical matter!!!

That would be a ecumenical matter!!!

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28 Mar 2007 02:17 #22 by apistodiscus (apistodiscus)
Replied by apistodiscus (apistodiscus) on topic Re: Donate some live bacterial medium to Meath guy??
Sean,
did a bit of reading on the fresh/saltwater issue. The problem is the breakdown of ammonia. In freshwater bacteria of the genus Nitrosomona handle the breakdown from ammonia to nitrite in saltwater Nitrosococcus handle that breakdown. Nitrite is broken down to nitrate by Nitrobacter in fresh and saltwater.
Since both Nitrosomona and Nitrosococcus are able to form cycst that remain viable it is conceivable that both are contained in any of the cycling products.

Holger

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28 Mar 2007 03:36 #23 by scorphonic (Kieran Crosbie Staunton)
I though since the ammonia was being broken down I would see a rise in Nitrite before Nitrate. As it stands the levels are definately what I have quoted. The test I did, shown in the link, was using a test kit that I didn't like and didn't trust. As soon as I got the API master test kit the colour changes were just so easy to read so I trust these up-to-date readings!

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28 Mar 2007 03:49 #24 by apistodiscus (apistodiscus)
Replied by apistodiscus (apistodiscus) on topic Re: Donate some live bacterial medium to Meath guy??
I hate to break the news but it seems your tank is cycled. The breakdown of nitrite to nitrate will happen quite rapidly with a well functioning filter. You can now add fish slowely. Keep an eye on ammonia/nitrite and nitrate levels as they still might show minor spikes when you add fish

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28 Mar 2007 03:55 #25 by Processor (Niall O'Leary)

I hate to break the news but it seems your tank is cycled.


Is this possible after only 12 days ?

Now I'm confused. Does the ammonia have to occur naturally as opposed to artificial introduction or is it all the same ?....If you know what I mean.

Processor.

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28 Mar 2007 04:17 #26 by scorphonic (Kieran Crosbie Staunton)
It should be all the same processor, the ammonia is the same either way. Em...maybe the tank is coming on but there still isn't enough bacteria for the ammonia coz the levels are still up this morning!!

Its nice to know that the nitrites are broken down rapidly...that could explain it!

There is a guy on here that cycled his tank artificially in 8 days!

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28 Mar 2007 04:23 #27 by apistodiscus (apistodiscus)
Replied by apistodiscus (apistodiscus) on topic Re: Donate some live bacterial medium to Meath guy??
Ammonia is ammonia no matter if it comes from a bottle or a fishes arse/gills or rotting fish food.
If you add ammonia to the tank and shortly afterwards cannot get an ammonia or nitrite reading but only a raised nitrate level your filter's bacteria are working properly. All this is within reason of course. Throw enough ammonia into it and they won't be able to break all of it down.
What I am trying to tell you is, start with low stocking levels and work your way up. Safest way unless you can quantify how mich ammonia your fish and decaying matter in your tank can produce. There are ways of doing this but to be honest, it's not worth your while and quite impossible for somebody without a background in biological science. And even then it's not easy.
you could try to add ammonia until you get a nitrite reading. This will tell you how much ammonia your filter can handle before it's overloaded. I wouldn't do it since you could crash the whole system

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28 Mar 2007 04:42 #28 by Anthony (Anthony)
Replied by Anthony (Anthony) on topic Re: Donate some live bacterial medium to Meath guy??
Seems to me your tank is cycled mate.
Do a small w/c and add some fish.

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28 Mar 2007 14:11 #29 by scorphonic (Kieran Crosbie Staunton)
just picked up the bacteria from processor!! Thanks a million for it!! It was definately good and dirty. The external filter was done about ten minutes after pick-up...and I've just added more ammonia to keep the bacteria there alive!

Its great to know that the "mé féin" attitude hasn't spread everywhere, my two hobbies: Being with and on my motorbike and recently reading and learning about fish has shown me through forums that we're all a bunch of descent people! :)

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28 Mar 2007 17:08 #30 by Processor (Niall O'Leary)
Only glad to help but forgot to mention that I also put the filter floss from my external in with the water I gave you..........just in case you thought it was a pair of my old jocks.

Processor

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