ISPCA and Fish

I was just wandering if anybody knows where the ISPCA actually stands regarding fish cruelty?

If we saw Guinea Pigs living in squalid conditions in pet shops or homes then they would act. How about fish though? Is it something that we can try & change in this country & perhaps try & tackle amongst the clubs as a united front?

As a fishkeeper there's nothing I hate more than hearing terrible advice being given in shops & seeing terrible conditions. Now it's usually not the staff's fault, they had to learn from someone else. Perhaps we could offer some sort of training liason from the clubs.

NOTE THAT WE'RE NOT NAMING & SHAMING SHOPS IN REPLIES.

Richard<br><br>Post edited by: richardbunn, at: 2007/07/31 15:57

Hi Richard,

That's a great idea. I don't believe the animal cruelty organisations currently have any policy when it comes to fish.

I was up in Belfast a few weeks back and stopped at a restaurant near Nerwy. They had an oversized champagne glass on the bar with two large goldfish in it. There wasn't enough room for one of these fish nevermind, two. There was no substrate or filtration, just water. The fish looked stressed. I went over for a closer look and the barman said \&quot;I see your admiring our centrepiece?\&quot;. I said, \&quot;on the contrary, I think it's cruelty\&quot;. He told me they do water changes every day. I asked him if they bring the water up to temperature and use conditioner, he looked blankly at me.

Anyway, I looked up the animal welfare orgs up north and none of them appear to give a toss about fish so I didn't bother. It is something we should look at. Even if it's just providing basic content for the ISPCA website or basic information to their staff.

As far as I can make out fish are considered lower vertebrates and thus don't seem to be under any protection.
Why would the ISPCA give a monkey's? Fish don't look cute and can't make any sorry noises und thus will not make any headlines in the papers and on TV for them. Sorry if I sound over-critical here but I'm just calling it as I see it

No I completely agree with you there Holger. People don't seem to give a fishes tit about fish.

Perhaps if/when we develop an organisation for fishkeeping in this country, that the three clubs can then affiliate to, we can then work on building something similar to the OATA. I think the way forward is to start at the root of the problem &amp; educate the sellers.

Even the little things count. I was buying a particularly splended female Betta earlier in the month from my least favourite shop. The guy netted the fish into the bag &amp; then rather than twisting the top to tie it, he just rapidly spun the bag around, catching the fish in a violent vortex 'a la Finding Nemo'. I grabbed the bag out of his hand before he could finish &amp; said 'not like that'. He looked at me like I was a Mackerel r***st &amp; mumbled something in Polish.<br><br>Post edited by: ChrisM, at: 2007/07/31 20:27

Out of curiosity, do LFS have to obtain a authorisation from the authorities before dealing fish ?
Valerie

Re:ISPCA and Fish 2007/07/31 19:59
Out of curiosity, do LFS have to obtain a authorisation from the authorities before dealing fish ?
Valerie
Please note, although no boardcode and smiley buttons are shown, they are still useable

Valerie

The answer to your question is no as lfs in Ireland do not need any kind of licence to open a shop. Many years ago i tried to join with OATA but because i was from ireland i could not.

Just to also explain not all lfs are bad

Hi, We tried to join 3 years ago, n yes Gerry, same thing, because we were an irish based company, they had no interest!!!!

Just to clarify this. I don't believe that either Richard or Valerie did mean to attack all LFSs. But unfortunately there are a good number of shops that are one step up from a fishmonger. I agree that there should be a law that forces shops to maintain a certain standard in fishkeeping. But the government isn't interested and so I don't think that anything will be done about it in my lifetime.

Naturally I didn't start this thread to be singleing out those shops who do give a damn. You guys do a great job. I'm on about raising the average standard of the fish husbandry on trade shelves. Pet shops, a few unmentionable (low grade) LFS's, that sort of thing.

So don't worrry Gerry, Serratus, yous are grand.

What ever happened to OATA International? Are we not international enough?

whats OATA??

www.ornamentalfish.org/ That's their website.

It seams this is a Very strong issue for most serious fish keepers here and it comes up every so often but then seams to fade away again! It seams to me that the ISPCA just dont have ( or want) the time to deal with this matter!...i know some of the members have mentioned writing to them to show there concern but without any response. But can i ask if anybody has written to them suggesting a solution?

for example: (it early and im only out of bed! so i aint thought this through fully yet! lol)

Would it be possible for some of the more experienced members of the societies to to \&quot;do the leg work!\&quot; for the ISPCA,.....If a member of the forum was off in a LFS and thought the fish were in unsuitable conditions they could contact one of the more experienced members(who has been given permission/ authority by the ISPCA), who could then go check it out for them selfs and with the backing of the ISPCA enforce some changes if need be!?....

would the ISPCA be willing to back up the decision of some the most experienced fish kepers in the country!...And would the more experienced members be willing to do this \&quot;leg work\&quot;??


I know it seams like a long shot but i really cant see the ISPCA or any other authorities getting up and doing it them selfs....at least not till we find a fish that plays chess! ( thought i had one once!)

If i may make a suggestion.The people responsible for allowing the importation of fish into Ireland is the department of marine.Also the department of agriculture play the main role in governing what actually comes into the country.I feel very strongly about animal health and the way they are kept and presented to the public.Do not mention my name because i am always arguing this point with them.If you want a good starting point because you will have an up hill battle.Try contacting or emailing Fiona Geoghan (hope its the correct spelling i am crap at details)She is the head vet for ireland what she says goes she is the mighty wizard of oz and she has busted my balls for nearly ten years but i have to admit she does a good job.One of the main problems with the trade is price and not quality.The cheaper the better the source is irrelevant and that is wrong.We source our fish from point of origin if our suppliers do not reach our demands in quality they are dropped.To many shops lack experienced staff everyone wants to sell fish for a quick buck it drives me mad.If there was a way to set a standard i would be delighted to participate honestly.Two years ago i approached the two largest organisations in the world and asked them to include ireland in their sphere of influence but all i got was waffle about ireland being outside the brittish isles etc they wernt happy when i gave them grief.If more people emailed these organisations it may make a difference for they offer courses for retailing which looked excellent to me.Sorry to waffle on i hope this may be of some help.Just dont mention my name and one of these sources may help.I stir the shit too much so much so that the department of agriculture actually raided me can you believe that??Just because of my inquires in the past??They left empty handed and to this day some of them buy their fish here still.Good luck on your Quest .Ian

@ Alan86

In theory a very good idea. It would be nice to see how other people respond to this one as it deserves thought.

@ Ian

Very informative &amp; forthcoming with your information. Thank you very much.

I think this is a subject that could be discussed at club level. Hopefully the three clubs can then organize a working group to pursue the matter.

Regards

Richard

The ISPCA will take a mammal away from its owner if the animal was mistreated. The logistics behind this operation are fairly easy. A cat does not need a cycled tank with a specific, pH, hardness, special diet, etc. This IMO is the greatest problem. I wouldn't mind the doing the legwork for the ISPCA if I knew something would be done. And I am sure a lot of you would get involved as well.
One problem I face that I have to tell vets how to treat a fish. As good as they are with cats, dogs, cows on fish they are clueless. I know of one member of the forum who had to lie to his local vet to get an anitbiotic tellig him that he was trained in Sparsholt. What actually surprised me was that the vet knew what Sparsholt college was. Thankfully my GP doesn't ask questions and just gives me the prescription if I require it. I remember back in the eighties there was an antibiotic for a vaginal infection was used against hole in the head disease. The old man rang the GP (he was a member in my local club in the time) and got the prescription. My mother not knowing what she was collecting got some very funny looks from the pharmacist. Another thing she hasn't quite forgiven me for yet. Ups, getting side-tracked again...

Anyway, I still think that the idae with the approved stickers is still the best and I hope the shops that get awarded that honour will use it extensively in their ads and promotions.