sick frog

Just to explain a little. I love frogs and have recently set up a trigon 190 to house my frogs goldfish and loach. They are Albino African Black Clawed frogs (xenopus Laevis) I have them about 4 years and they have grown from tiny little frogs to big fat ones. Anyway about 4 weeks ago I took on 2 frogs and put them in quarantine in the hope that they would be curable or fixable in some way so I could then add them to my tank.

both were skinny and had red swolen legs. One of them had an open wound on his hip and a battle scar and gash across his mouth. It also looked like the same frog had either deformed hips and legs or broken hips. He was able to get around but not in the usual froggy way. his legs didnt part at all and only the claws worked.

I decided to keep them in a seperate tank and I changed teh water every day, fed them well and medicated the tank with melafix. The sores healed quite fast and their colour got much better. They were nearly see through but now are the correct white colour for albino frogs

The following is a picture of them. I am very concerned for the bloated one as you can see he has blown up. Researching this I have seen that it oculd be dropsy or bloat, both of which are fatal. I knew when I took them that they might not survive but I dont know what to do about this. If anyone has any info or suggestions I would be grateful. Thanks

Nessa

Bump.

Sorry I can't help, but that frog looks like he is in serious need of help, hopefully someone will come along with a suggestion.

Its bloat and a bacterial infection called red leg.
I hope your other from=gs don`t get it.
See can you get a product called Koizyme. This will cure both
(hopefully).

Nessa I learned the hard way never to take in sick fish/anamals.
I took in two sick Discus once and tried to cure them. I eventually lost most of mine and even restocking the tank months later they still got sick.
I hope you don`t loose your other frogs as Red leg is very contagious.

Metro from a vets might work. I don`t know if Myaxzin will work
it might kill them.

Thanks Anto. I should not have taken them prpbably but sure.....I tried salt and stress coat as suggested in one website but it didnt work for me. I have seen teh red leg and the bloat the only thing is that they are still in quarantin so my other frogs ar grand. I will see if I can get a hold of the medicine koizyme.

The other thinI have to research is how to euthanise them. Just in case. I thought at one stage that the bloated frogs face was starting to split but it wasnt. If that starts to happen it would only be right to put it down. I just not sure how to go about it. I might have to get a lend of your shovel.

Thanks for the help

nessa

The shovel is €20 per hour rent.
By the way I got the wedding present last week, cheeky buggers:laugh:

Maybe as a last resort you could try pure Ro water. Might flush them out. If not it might kill them.
Personally I don`t think they have much chance.

By the way see you all Tuesday.

goldy wrote:

The other thinI have to research is how to euthanise them.
nessa

The heat treament is the best way as its sudden death, ice water or is a slow death the best way is hot olive oil in a frying pan with garlic:evil:

I would suggest that your frog is not suffering from red leg, since it does not have any mekings along the belly or the underside of the legs (as far as I can make out). It looks more like frog dropsy.
Have a look here www.xenopus.com/disease.htm. They suggest everything from salt bath to phsically puncturing the frog

Post edited by: apistodiscus, at: 2007/09/12 18:01

apistodiscus wrote:

I would suggest that your frog is not suffering from red leg, since it does not have any mekings along the belly or the underside of the legs (as far as I can make out). It looks more like frog dropsy.
Have a look here www.xenopus.com/disease.htm. They suggest everything from salt bath to phsically puncturing the frog<br><br>Post edited by: apistodiscus, at: 2007/09/12 18:01

Are you serious. I think you are a googler Holger.
It`s a living animal not a fewking balloon. Its not as if your
getting you ear pearced. If you were to actually pucture the flesh of a frog you would have to puncture its gut.
I`m not vet but I can imagine all sorts of bile like symptons
entering its system. If it does not die from the initial stabbing then the internal hemroging (spelling) should help it die in agony.
I personally would uthanise the two of them.

Anthony wrote:

apistodiscus wrote:

I would suggest that your frog is not suffering from red leg, since it does not have any mekings along the belly or the underside of the legs (as far as I can make out). It looks more like frog dropsy.
Have a look here www.xenopus.com/disease.htm. They suggest everything from salt bath to phsically puncturing the frog<br><br>Post edited by: apistodiscus, at: 2007/09/12 18:01

Are you serious. I think you are a googler Holger.
.

Wasn't that obvious that I googled that one? I know it wasn't red leg since there are not red patches anywhere on the frog. I also know that their is another disease that shows bloating in frog. Google the two and that's what google will come up with.
First of all a salt bath should be tried(and you are the greatest fan of these, Anto )and only then it is suggested to puncture the frog as a last reserve and that it should be done by a professional. If the body cavity is filled with air it doesn't neccessarily mean that you will puncture a vital organ. If the air is trapped between the skin and the organs, I would imagine that it is possible to deflate the frog without causing lasting damage.

Holger

I disected one of my Tropheus when they dies of Bloat and one of
their intestines (probably the lower) was swollen.
They also tend to fill with bile.
Maybe a little squeeze will do.

Still think the shovel method is best.
I can picture you now with a bread knife stabbing your sick frogs.

I suggest a hypordermic needle rather than Anthony@s suggestion from the Dark Ages;)

The stink of Sarcasm in that statement is over powering.

What else were you expecting
And that Emoticon looks like you have constipation and are trying very hard to burst the bowl .

Ok, Trying to be serious for once

I have had a look on a German Xenopus forum and here is a quick rundown of suggestion why your frogs are bloated and what to do about it.

reason for bloating. Body cavity is filled with liquids:
-feeding them bloodworm
-stress
-lack of calcium in the diet
-adverse osmotic pressure

treatment suggestions:
-stating the obvious, don't feed bloodworm
-ROTA-TS 500mg , 1 tablet per 7 l of water (I suggest you treat the frogs in a small aquarium), I don't now if the stuff has the same trade name over here, anyway the active ingredients are trimethoprim and sulfadimidinum.
-one forum member got Borgol 24% (made by BAYER) from his vet 1ml to every 3litres of water and the swelling was down 50% within 24 hours.
-and yes, they also suggest to drain the body cavity and to feed the frogs with gardenworms since they have a high calcium content or to add a multivitamin powder made for reptiles to the water. Those products also contain calcium. The suggested dosis is 1.5g per litre.

Whatever you do, do not increase the water temperature since the bacteria that cause the bloating will evenm multiply faster at a higher temperature
Frog is filled with air:
Usually the intestine is blocked. reduce feeding increase the water temperature to 31 degrees C. As soon as your frog takes a dump you can reduce the temperature again

Hope that helps<br><br>Post edited by: apistodiscus, at: 2007/09/14 16:18

first of all I would be afraid that if I puntured the poor thing it would blow around the room like a baloon. not a nice image. second outcome would be the splatter of internal organs all over the roof, wall floor and me, also not a nice image.

I googled it myself and got the same sites but dont think I will be visiting the vet. can you imagine...

I was thinking back and I did feed them blood worm twice and I have noticed there has not been much poo. I did then give greens thinking that it might shift any blockage. I think there may be something in the calcium idea. I will probably give one more try feeding with garden worms and see if it makes any difference. If not I think its the pearly gates.

Thanks for your comments<br><br>Post edited by: goldy, at: 2007/09/14 18:43

A fine hypodermic needle should cause too much damage. Just don't just pierce the frog. Nice and easy does it. Just make sure you go just below the skin. Not claiming to be any authority on the issue but I'd give it a try if everything else fails. If it doesn't work or you puncture a vital organ you can always push the needle into the chest cavity and put it through the heart of the frog. Seems as human as the shovel to me (sorry Anto if you losing money on your henchman business here )

I will pucture him with a needle if you want

Some interesting comments from Anthony and Googleher, I cam back from Holiday and before I went on holidays my sons malawi tank was ateast 50% over stocked to to breeding, while wawy with out been feed for 2 weeks, after the holidays there was one very old yellow labo,
had shreadded fins redness at the tail base still feeding, but swimming at a slight 5 degree upward angle, I did not have the engergy to treat the tank for fin rot, I tried to catch the bad fish but he kept hidding, so a tricked him by feeding the tank and netted him as he came up to feed, then walked him to the down stairs bathroom while still in the net, pinched his head area with my thumb and fore finger heared the click dropped in the toliet and flush it and of story, one has to be ruthless and not get emotially envolved. Not because killing a fish is cruel its to the benifit of all the heathly fish that are at a narrow line to becoming unhealthy them selfs if one is not ruthless and one does not take action.

One crasy idea which I can a sure you is not googled, what if the bag up the frog in its own tank water and bring him to a deep diving pool take the bag down to 8M leave him just 5 minutes down there, then go down and colect him, all the gasses would have been explelled, if he dies in the process you can enter your fron into the gusiness book of records for the first frog to get the bends, please not the water pressure in a flexible bag will take on the abient water pressure of the surondings.<br><br>Post edited by: Fr. Jack, at: 2007/09/15 18:14

Talking about getting attached, I noticed that the frog ha the same colour lipstick as Nessa.
Interesting or what.

Maybe she taught he would turn in to a prince.

unfortunately he didnt he is still has the belly and the big head....oh he must be an irish frog...

ps he only wears the lipstick at teh weekends