Household Charge

Can anyone here interpret this? I just want to be sure I am not missing something.

It is in relation to a Household not having a current Owner, ie. I am the sole Inheritor but the Title and deeds are yet to be signed into my Name. The House was left in a Will and there is no contest.

debates.oireachtas.ie/dail/2012/02/21/00290.asp#N2

Kev.

Hi kev,

As far as i can tell it says if there is no owner of the property then there is no bill to pay.If your name is not on the deeds then you do not have to pay because as of 1st january 2012 you are not the register property owner and the current owner is deceased, so technically there is no owner.

A better question would be, why the hell we have to pay this ridiculus charge, and what exactly we are getting in return for paying it?

Cheers Stuart.

Stuart, a lot of people know me, I'm fairly easy going but I will fight for what is mine, I'm f@@kin angry beyond belief, I have been in conversation with a TD from the Labour Party and the BS defies belief, I have just dropped the Household Charge People a line telling them I wouldn't be paying and to suck it up, here's their reply...Hello

Thank you for your email where you state that you will not be registering or paying the 2012 Household Charge.

I wish to inform you that under Section 5(1) of the Local Government (Household Charge) Act 2011, the owner of a residential property, who on a liability date , is liable to pay a household charge to a relevant local authority, or who is entitled to a waiver from payment of a household charge under section 4(4), must make and provide to the relevant local authority a declaration stating that he or she is so liable or so entitled, as the case may be. Under section 5(2) of the Act, the declaration must, in the case of a person who is liable to pay a household charge, be accompanied by payment of the household charge in respect of the property concerned.

I would also bring to your attention that the Local Government (Household Charge) Act 2011 provides for offences for failure to declare a liability to the Household Charge and for failure to pay it. Persons who are guilty of an offence are liable on summary conviction to a Class C fine. The Fines Act 2010 provides that a class C fine is an amount in excess of €1,000 and not greater than €2,500. On conviction of an Offence, the Act also provides for a continuing penalty of €100 per day for each day that the offence is continued.

There are "Late payment fees" that apply for non payment after the 31st March. Unpaid household charges and late penalties will remain as a charge against the property and will have to be discharged in the event of the transfer or sale of the property concerned.

The Household Charge bureau is responsible for registering and processing payments for the Household Charge on a shared service/agency basis for all county and city councils. Under the legislation, county and city councils are responsible for enforcement of the household charge. In this regard, your details may be forwarded to your local authorities for enforcement purposes.

I would again remind you that an owner of a residential property liable to the household charge who fails to register and to pay the household charge by 31st March is liable to late payment fees and is committing offences under the Act. In this regard, I have enclosed a declaration form. You may also opt to make your declaration and payment of the household charge on www.householdcharge.ie.

Regards

Household Charge Support Team.


Here was mine to them...And I'll inform you that there is no owner of this Household as of yet and according to your Dickhead Phil Hogan

448. Deputy Aengus Ó Snodaigh Information on Aengus O Snodaigh Zoom on Aengus O Snodaigh asked the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government Information on Philip Hogan Zoom on Philip Hogan the person who is liable to pay the household charge in the event of a house being in probate, with one sibling still living in the house. [9333/12]

Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government (Deputy Phil Hogan): Information on Philip Hogan Zoom on Philip Hogan The Local Government (Household Charge) Act 2011 and the Local Government (Household Charge) Regulations 2012 provide the legislative basis for the household charge. Under the legislation, an owner of a residential property on the liability date of 1 January 2012 is liable to pay the household charge by 31 March 2012, unless otherwise exempted or entitled to claim a waiver. The Act places the household charge under the care and management of the local authorities, and application in particular circumstances is a matter for the relevant local authority. Interpretation of the legislation is a matter for legal advice in individual cases and ultimately a matter for the Courts. Section 1 of the Act sets out the definition of “owner” for the purposes of the legislation. Where there is no owner of a residential property on the liability date a household charge is not payable.

So??? where does that leave you?

I could pay it times over but there are people living in poverty, some down bohreens ( not sure of spelling) no lights, no car due to unemployment and inability to pay Tax or Insurance, no paths, septic charges looming so it just isn't fair, a one bedroom flat 100 euro , a 500,000 euro house , 100 Euro, how the hell is that fair???

Kev.

I'm with you on that Kev.
I will simply not pay it because I have not got a bill, nor will I as far as I know.
Like you, I can afford to pay, but there has to be a fairer way. I'm all for patriotism and pulling together as citizens of this beautiful island, BUT, when you see the likes of a certain FF ex Taoiseach (or should I say ex Taoisaigh) getting paid a very handsome pension for ruining our economy and common thievery, it just boils my blood.

There was something doing the rounds on the net where a guy says...

So far I only own 3% of my house. The bank owns the rest. Therefore I am writing you a cheque for €3 and the bank will pay the rest !!

I like it Paddy, I just got a reply that they are done with me because I called Bulk Hogan a Dickhead, they said I was using Profanity... holy crap, if they were in the street they'd melt away altogether! People are sick of this and if they think what is going on now is bad, wait till the public see what's in the Pipe-line, I believe implicitly that the Charge is a conduit to imposing greater punishment on the worker having broken the back of it by making people present themselves for a lashing.... why do people have to register? it includes pps numbers, bank details etc, it's big brother's attempt to give you a rectal with your permission.

Kev.

paddyc1 wrote:

I'm with you on that Kev.
I will simply not pay it because I have not got a bill, nor will I as far as I know.
Like you, I can afford to pay, but there has to be a fairer way. I'm all for patriotism and pulling together as citizens of this beautiful island, BUT, when you see the likes of a certain FF ex Taoiseach (or should I say ex Taoisaigh) getting paid a very handsome pension for ruining our economy and common thievery, it just boils my blood.

There was something doing the rounds on the net where a guy says...

So far I only own 3% of my house. The bank owns the rest. Therefore I am writing you a cheque for €3 and the bank will pay the rest !!

Good point.

This household charge is getting at me.......the method of paying does not sound like a council charge that you may get elsewhere.
Why?
Well, why do they need to have someones PPS number if it is a charge on a house (I do not give Tesco my PPS number when I pay VAT on a can of beans, nor give my PPS number when paying car tax).
Why?.....because maybe this is a tax on persons and not on the house. That is quite clear as it stipulates a specific person who is liable.

A poll tax in disguise.......and when the first poll tax was introduced into England, the archbishop of Canterbury had his head hung upon a bridge.

And with it, are we going to get free dustbin collection.

If a country is run correctly, then the people should see what they get for their taxes: we no longer live in the days of robbing the people to pay the powers-that-be (surely).

Agreed Ian, the punative fines included in the HHC reply were enough to make the least healthy among us regurgitate our Breakfast.... talk about trying to scare people, here is a reply I sent to Dermot Lacey of the Labour Party today, sorry if I'm disjointed, when I get emotional I drive like a Man calling his wife on a mobile fone, eating a cream Doghnut and rockin to Lynard Skynard while overtaking a 40 Foot on the hard shoulder.

As it turns out, the House I am currently in has not been put in my Name yet as my Mother passed away in August last year, the legal papers are in the posession of my Solicitor, as such, it is not my House and therefore doesn't come under the said charge unless I'm missing something... however, whether or not, this is the case, I will not be paying and am actively encouraging others to follow suit, this is a slippery slope and I neither trust you nor your Political colleagues, I will be selling the Family Home, Emigrating to Canada with the Money generated from the sale in tandem with my savings and any finances generated by the sale of MY personal proberty.

debates.oireachtas.ie/dail/2012/02/21/00290.asp#N2

I have watched fat cats suckle from the teat of the poor , watched the poor get threatened, double questioned when they vote but their vote is deemed to be the wrong one and forced to vote again. No one has been Jailed for the Banking debacle, aherne sidles up to fellow members at the Ard fheis, giving a virtual fingers up to the voters, such an elite bunch of thieves and cheats they are, Politicians... it matters not , what label you trade under, Different Suits, same people inside. If the public didn't protest it would be a Police State, something that's not too far away.

I appreciate you taking the time to reply and the yes/no but I have lost Faith times 2, 1st time , the filth of the Church and its closing of ranks to protect the offenders, and 2nd, Politicians protecting their friends and Bankers... a veiled attempt by the Gardai to investigate the allegations will, I believe, arrive at no arrests nor punitive charges being made against the protagonists.

The reason people won't go to prison, something Mr Hogan recently state, is ,that it would cost millions to incarcerate all those that refuse (My opinion, not his) and many many yers at huge cost.

So, it fails, people remain steadfast, then what? how long will it take to prosecute/fine all those refusing to pay? how much will the whole fiasco cost, including keeping Council Offices open this saturday at time and a half?

There is more to this registration than people realise and we won't pay off the Bankers, this reiteration of "it goes to the support of local services" is ludicrous, you are aware that there are households on broken down Roads with no Lighting, not a Park for miles, no paths etc etc, you live in cloud cuckoo land, People have sold cars becuse they cannot pay for insurance, do you get that? does any of it make sense to you? it does to me and I can afford to pay but the Governments of Ireland since the free state have been con-men, cheats and thieves, you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours, the only difference now is that we know, we are aware and we are educated, the chances for Politicians to pull the wool is at an end.

Why would you pay your neighbours Mortgage? would you? I know you wouldn't so why should we pay for a Bank that screwed up? why are we bailing them out? why arent they put into receivership like any other company, that's all the layman wants to know but they receive a diatribe of financial intricasies, way beyond their scope and all you achieve is to leave them puzzled and angry.


Kev.

Another reply I sent to Mr Lacey.

Can you explain why it is necessary to make people including invalided, bed-ridden , infirm people etc. Register, why is there no Bill through the Post as there is in car Tax, TV licence ( not a Tax if you want to be pedantic ) etc.?

It is a sneaky way to get information to lock people into new charges that they would, under a democracy, be able to disagree with.

Have you no comment on the 1m houses that will be exempted?

A LOOPHOLE in the Household Charge means that wealthy homeowners on 'Millionaires' Row' can escape paying the tax, the Herald can reveal.

Owners of houses that sold for well over ¤1m during the boom can avoid paying the €100 fee because one property in their estate is "unfinished".

The Herald can reveal that wealthy homeowners are exempt from coughing up the €100 due to bizarre Department of Environment rules.

One new estate in a seaside town -- whose residents include a Wicklow county manager, a bank manager and a former developer -- are exempt from the charge because just a single property has nobody living in it.

The debacle surrounding the Household Charge has rumbled on today, with the revelation that a €140,000-a-year county manager is not obliged to pay.

Residents in the Avonvale Hall estate in Wicklow town are exempt from paying the charge because one of the properties is deemed "unfinished" -- although they can voluntarily pay if they wish to do so.

The estate is one of hundreds that the household charge has been waived on because of being classified as an "unfinished development".

The Department of the Environment has confirmed that residents are not obliged to pay the levy as the estate is classified as a 'category 3' development.

A Department spokesperson told the Herald: "This development was included in the 2010 survey of unfinished developments and was categorised as a Category 3 Development (ie. where a developer is in place but there is no on-site activity and the developer is responsible for managing the site from a public safety perspective)."

Luxurious

The estate -- known locally as "millionaires row" -- is home to the county manager Edward Sheehy.

The plush properties on the development sold for well over ¤1m in the boom.

Bizarrely, the estate is classified as a "category three" development and is therefore exempt from the levy.

However the Herald has learned that just one house out of the 20 on the estate is currently not being lived in.

Wicklow County Council told the Herald that Mr Sheehy voluntarily coughed up the €100 payment.

A spokesperson said: "The €100 Household Charge represents a very modest contribution to the cost of providing vital local services such as road maintenance and public lighting, fire and emergency services, libraries etc. The County Manager urges all householders to pay the charge before March 31."

Kev.

Head hung upon a bridge

Now there sounds like an idea for some of our so-called leaders.

I opened my local paper today (Tallaght Echo), to see that an ex FF TD living and whose constituency was in Tallaght is being investigated and faces expulsion from FF for receiving payments in the past.

This guy is a pillar of the society, a guy who still goes to every funeral in Tallaght, regardless of whether he knows the deceased or their family.

Like the rest of them....a bloody hypocrit !!

Back to the point...
Ireland is becoming less and less democratic by the day.
I agree with Ian and Kev. Poll tax is on the way so we can keep Europe happy.

I'm sorry for going on and bringing this on the Forum but me poor Head is addled, I'll post this and leave it unless people want to continue.

(This was a reply to Mr Lacey when he said People always chose to forget that they ( the Government)fulfilled their promise not to reduce Social Welfare, increase Income Tax etc.)



Wonderful that you kept your promises , I'm sure your shoulders must smart from all the pats on the Back but the argument most people have is that it is unfair.... end of... why is it so difficult for your ilk to understand? seriously, it's like asking a politician to answer a question, yes or no, they NEVER EVER DO... I didn't make that fact up, it is a fact.

By saying it is unfair is a very simple concept, IT IS UNFAIR, I am assuming you see no other context included in those three words? You are more than likely , as are your colleagues that are given the task to placate the Public, the people who pay YOUR wages, to be on a higher the industrial wage, you and many people not on the Breadline will more than likely be living in Decent Houses, Mortgages Paid and decent pensions, what about those on minimum Wage, people who have acted as carers to sick relatives negating the necessity of intervention/help from Hospitals or Old folks homes? the rich pay 100, the poor pay 100 !! total Bullshit...

You can keep the spin up.. padding your excuses but the Fact remains...IT IS UNFAIR.

What's with Big Bully Hogan threatening people with visits from Local City Councils? how dare you treat the Irish like this, IRISH politicians have managed to do what the English tried to for hundreds of years, brought Ireland to it's Knees.

It seems your connection to Ireland and respectng it's Citizens disconnects when you don the Cap of TD in this country. Shame on you and please don't palm me off with, waaa! it was the Fianna Fail party that caused this ,waaa!

It is becoming tired by now. You want to facilitate the EU and eff the Irish people ... Lockjaw Kenny said in public " it isn't your fault, you are not to blame but yet we pay have for someone elses mistake!!

Why do people have to Register? it is to ease the implementation and collection of Water charges and to have the populace by the Testicles?

This is starting to drift from democracy and heading toward dictatorship, namely Germany.

You honestly think that this is the end of things? given what you intend foisting upon the people over the next few years, they have had enough, they are sick of it and insisting on registration is going to give you leverage to force worse things on them,

Suicide has gone through the Roof and you are partially to blame, I don't know how you can sleep at night!!

Kev.

This Guy posted this comment on Irishtimes.com, it summarises it perfectly.

JOHN SUGRUE,

Connaught Avenue,

Cork.

A chara, – Even at this late stage, may I humbly offer Minister for the Environment Phil Hogan a little advice on improving compliance in the payment of the household tax: 1. Stick strictly to the agreed cap on advisers’ and bankers’ remuneration. 2. Set a date for the referendum on the Senate. 3. Allow householders register and pay by every means possible. 4. Send out a bill and issue a receipt. 5. Tell the facts in relation to why this new tax is being introduced. 6. Less browbeating of the electorate. 7. Start to bring to justice a few of those made famous by the financial jiggery pokey and tribunal reports.

Note that confusing messages by ministers adds to the shambolic result now being realised. An extension would be sensible. – Yours, etc,

Wow where to start.
We are all totally against this charge. I am fumming. I cam home the other night to find my wife had paid it.
I am dead set against it and refused point blank to pay. They come up with exceptions to allow the usual suspects avoid paying.
When I was single and working in the nineties I was paying over 52% of my wages in tax and prsi.
I worked for ten years and in 94 was out of work for a few months and then went back to work only to find that I had to pay back what I had earned on the dole as I wasnt long term unemployed. If I had stayed out of work for a year or longer this would not have been the case. I got married and have kids and saddle myself with a mortgage only to watch the unmarried parents getting extra hand outs cause they are unmarried.
I have watched people I know have three and four kids and claim unmarried alowances and get a three bedroom house for sod all.(one kid is a mistake two is careless but three and four is taking the piss) Renters get an allowance but buy and you get jack.

Whats the relevance of this rant?????
Simple
Those honest Joe's who got of their arses and paid their way get screwed while the slackers who sit on their hole and put their hands out get everything.
This country is slipping from a country to be proud of into a communist style dictatorship moving further away from capitalism. the only ones that get rich are the cronies of the guys in power.
I should claim to be an ethnic minority. I am an honest hard working Irish man.

Not many of us left and in the next ten years there will be a lot less with emigration.

Very good Pat, you have Nailed it!

Kev.

Playing devils advocate here, putting aside bank bailouts, Anglo 30 billion, bond holders etc. the country still has to borrow 15 billion to pay its bills. Everyone was asking to tax the rich the best way to tax the rich is by taxing an asset, house car whatever. My motor tax went up €60. No complaints from anyone. Being an elder lemon I remember there being a residential property tax. This €100. For all is not fair and should be be more equitable and people who can't pay should be accommodated and those who can...should.
Council tax in England is around €1,800 p.a.for an apartment!!!!!!

Why put aside any of the above, do you pay your Neighbours Mortgage when they are no longer able to make payments? No? then why should we have to put the money that the Bankers lost through their own greed back into their Pockets?

We didn't have these charges before because we managed our monies sensibly, it was the arrival of toxic debts from the Banking sector that initiated a glut of virtual money being offered by greedy lenders to equally greedy developers, this caused the Bubble, the Powers that be were warned regularly but chose to deny it, Bertie made comments about people moaning, the begrudgers, saying it would all end in disaster and guess what IT DID ! no Crystal Ball was required, no voodoo, no Soothsayer, the sums were done and the conclusion was that it would explode... We did quite well before all this because people lived within their means but who could fault a population, that always struggled under opression, famine etc for saying, I'd like a bit of that? you wouldn't give a Kid the Key to a Sweetshop and not expect him to make himself sick on sweets! Why pay off the people who F@@ked everything up, no retribution, no punishment, off you pop Bertie, I know you have 30,000 waiting for you for your Speaking tour of Nigeria or wherever...

The thing is, you can't leave the Banks and Bond holders out of this because they are the links in the chain that make the Wheel go around.

If you Google the origin of Toxic Debts you will see how we arrived where we are at the moment, it is all very simple, it involves Banks having Loans on their Books that they knew they would never get 100% back so they employed Insurance companies who insured the Loans, the Banks then sold on the loans at a lesser value to other banks and the first bank claimed against the Insurer for the difference, it was like Pyramid selling and someone had to end up getting hurt, Canada and Australia didn't fall into the ever increasing circles and as a result they are not suffering to the same extent as Europe and the USA.


Kev.

wylam wrote:

Well said Pat,There was a comment earlier something that was on facebook about a guy that said he only owned 3% of his house so he was only going to pay 3 euro.This unfortunatly is untrue, many people believe that because they have a morgatage, that its the bank that own's the house and not them.This is a very common misconception, when you sign your agreement with the bank you give them the power to sell your house if you do not keep up the repayments.But it is you that owns the house 100% of it.

I personally want someone to explain to me what this charge is actually going towards??I live in a rural area, when i built my house i paid 6,000 euro contribution to local amienities what ever they are. I paid 5,000euro for a bio cycle septic tank(which i need to empty and service every 2 years at a cost of 300 euro)I had to sink my own well for water which cost just under 5,000 euro(which i need to maintain myself)I pay 500 euro a year for bin collection.There are no street lights within 15 miles, there are no parks, no foot paths,No garda station, no county concil office, no shops, no post office, no local amienities, the raods are a disgrace(which our road tax should cover anyway)the ditches at the road sides are never cut.So can somebody tell me where this payment will be going and show some kind of evidence of where in my locality this money will be spent?

Stuart.

@Loius, I'm sure the local councils in england provide alot more and better services than what i have out lined above.I would gladly pay 1800 a year if there was some kind of service provided for it.

It is going to bail out the Banks, which, requires no Invoice and no receipt and no way of tracing it's use, if it was going to local services it would arrive as a Bill to your Domicile and you would have a breakdown of everything and there would be additional VAT @ 13.5%, there is no such thing, it is bail out Money.

Kev.

Look at Scandinavia, they pay huge Taxes but they are afforded the highest standards, you are guaranteed a decent, respectable old age and a decent Health system etc etc.

I wouldn't trust one single Politician if you paid me. if a politician said that for 30% of my wage packet I would enjoy a fruitful life and a happy old age supported by a lifetime's worth of high taxation I'd say..... trust you lot after the Mahon tribunal?, you have got to be kidding me. Imagine the Boys in Tahiti, slugging back the Harvey Wall bangers laughing their Heads off while the State crumbled......oh wait, sure they're doing that NOW!

Now if I lived in Scandinavia, that's a totally different matter.

Kev.

Pat wrote:

Wow where to start.
We are all totally against this charge. I am fumming. I cam home the other night to find my wife had paid it.
I am dead set against it and refused point blank to pay. They come up with exceptions to allow the usual suspects avoid paying.
When I was single and working in the nineties I was paying over 52% of my wages in tax and prsi.
I worked for ten years and in 94 was out of work for a few months and then went back to work only to find that I had to pay back what I had earned on the dole as I wasnt long term unemployed. If I had stayed out of work for a year or longer this would not have been the case. I got married and have kids and saddle myself with a mortgage only to watch the unmarried parents getting extra hand outs cause they are unmarried.
I have watched people I know have three and four kids and claim unmarried alowances and get a three bedroom house for sod all.(one kid is a mistake two is careless but three and four is taking the piss) Renters get an allowance but buy and you get jack.

Whats the relevance of this rant?????
Simple
Those honest Joe's who got of their arses and paid their way get screwed while the slackers who sit on their hole and put their hands out get everything.
This country is slipping from a country to be proud of into a communist style dictatorship moving further away from capitalism. the only ones that get rich are the cronies of the guys in power.
I should claim to be an ethnic minority. I am an honest hard working Irish man.

Not many of us left and in the next ten years there will be a lot less with emigration.

alot of those you have mentioned pat who are getting handouts are actually helping to contribute towards alot of morgages for landlords who may not otherwise be able to afford them, these houses may only make up a small percentage of total amount of morgages in the country but it is still a means of help... nobody is telling homeowners to accept social welfare payments but now have not much choice, see it as a contribution, while they hope they can hold onto a house they know is only worth about half what they once paid for it... i know of some home owners who have emigrated while still take social cheque!!!
sorry for going off topic but the above post is quite an uneducated post IMO!!

I'm also against the charge but i don't have to pay it (were renting) so i'll keep my opinion for the moment and just say that i do share the anger and views this topic has surfaced!!

Are we going to see more money ploughed into making a proper national health service? I doubt it.
Are we going to see more money ploughed into making sure our children have an opportunity of a decent free education? I doubt it (not even primary and secondary education is free).

Those facilities have been shown by a number of countries who have experienced financial ruin to be the items to spend spend spend on to fulfill a fruitful future and increase public morale.

Gross National Product, and balancing financial books are one thing; increasing national domestic morale is another and just as important for a country to get out of a crap place.

The problem that I have seen with recent governments is that are making policy around local issues and agendas rather than doing it right and ruling a country. County councils look after local agenda; The Government should look after the country.

From a personal point of view, I was privileged to have a very good completely free education and completely free top quality health care.

I want to see others be able to avail of those privileges of a free NHS and free education that I got.
It is not right that people of my generation, who may have got certain privileges themselves, should deny the same opportunities for others.

I may sound like old Tony Benn at times, but there principles that politicians should stand by rather than just play the power game.

ian

If you are anything at all like Tony Benn Ian, you ain't half bad, he was a very sincere, articulate and intelligent Politician and from me that's a big compliment because to me, most of them stink.

Kev.

No disrespect to any of you people,you all seem like sound and honest human beings(and i've met one or two of you) but i was at a local protest early this evening were there was only maybe 25 people in attentance...i then headed into the city for a similar protest (the household charge)and there was maybe 100 in attendance......i came home a short while ago to find thousands of heated and heart felt comments on different political forums and even the light hearted facebook had lots of discussion.....i had enough of this cyber way of venting your fury so i headed on here.......enough said lads................Keep this a fish forum people,or at least back up your words with action!!!

PM me if you need to know of places of protest tomorrow in Dublin,the rest of the Country...i can find out if you Pm me

Ger

Hi Ger.

The thing is,this IS the new way of protest, instead of worrying whether people are armed with the Facts,you can be pretty sure they are,judging by the miserable take-up by Householdersof this ludicrous option to register. People years ago were motivated by union Reps or word of Mouth by colleagues in Work, this has changed, most petitions are delivered and filled out via electronic means and hit a much wider audience.

As an individual,I can ask more questions and get more points across than if I were one in a sea of Faces.
I don't know if physical protest has the same effect any more. The internet is an extremely powerful tool and used correctly,it can achieve great things. One million one hundred thousand People have still not paid and I'd say most of them have searched the Net for th facts.

Kev.

Lads, I am totally against this household charge and agree with everything that has been said in this thread. l also believe that this country is going down the sewer faster than someone falling from a plane without a parachute. The question I have is what has this to do with fishkeeping?

The catagory is News Christy, there have been many Fish unrelated topics in this Catagory over the years and it doesn't interfere with the other daily Fish related catagories or topics.

Here is the catagory description ...


News
News - Any news ? Please share it with us !


Kev.

apparently there was a big surge in payments between last night and today.i myself wont be paying it and im sure im not the only one here.but its the people who are paying it are weakening our position and that are proving that the government can basicly do what they like.how much will this tax be in 5 years? I dread the thought. You wouldnt see this happen in the likes of france.remember what happened when they extended the retirerment age buy two years.

I feel that we are being bombarded from all sides with doom and gloom, its nice to have a haven to get away from it all for a while and switch off I like to keep politics and fishkeeping separate

The Doom and Gloom is all coming from the importance the government and their financial economic advisor are holding us to ransom with.

The Government need to drop their doom and gloom scare tactics (and the previous 'celtic tiger' stuff was actually a bully tactic equal to the doom and gloom) and get ruling the country by actually ruling the country by making it their concern to improve domestic welfare and morale.
They are not doing that as they keep thinking about money.....ie taking the easy option.

It is true that a hundred euro is not the end of the world, but the actually value is not the problem: it is the principle and the flood gates that it opens that is the big problem in my eyes.

Fishkeeping and Politics are presently being quite closely linked with the recent discussions of legislation. The effects of costs and taxes on businesses affect fishkeeping. Then, of course, the impact of finances on a hobby is of immediate concern to all.

So, as life is all one big tapestry and any one detail is part of it, then I think that this is part of the fishkeeping community discussions; not only are we fishkeepers, we are humans.

Ian

christyg wrote:

I feel that we are being bombarded from all sides with doom and gloom, its nice to have a haven to get away from it all for a while and switch off I like to keep politics and fishkeeping separate

Free speech exists here too I'm happy to say, the catagories pertaining to Fish keeping are clearly visible,if I want to avoid anything outside of that I stick to the relevant catagory, sorry Christy, the Catagories are set up, not my doing, I was looking for advice and the News catagory supplied me with the Counduit to do so. I download Movies from time , there are catagories on the Sites I visit, I have a penchant for sci-fi or Court Room based Movies, I search those catagories for what I like or what looks interesting, there are 18s sections on these fora too, I find them offensive and therefore I don't click on them, and then get upset and complain that they exist, I choose not to click, problem solved.

Kev.