Angel fish V cichlids

Hi guys,

I was told today in petstop that angle fish are not compatible with cichlids, and that ciclids should only be kept with other cichlids.Is this true ? can they not be kept together? and can ciclids not be kept as part of a community setup?

The assistant in petstop had a real dislike for angles she said that when fully grown you need a 120L tank just to hold one of them? this seemed a bit much to me . I have mine in with danios some cat fish and minnows and she said that once mature the angles will eat all the other fish in the tank except the cats because they can hide.Are angles this destructive? and should i be looking to move mine on soon, as i only have a small set up and didnt plan for angles in my tank.

Cheers stuart.

That sounds quite interesting considering Angel fish are cichlids.

So if angelfish cannot be mixed with cichlids, and cichlids can only be kept with cichlids....then angelfish cannot be kept at all according to the info given in the petshop.

what angels have you??
their mouths aren't that big ... i have always kept my angels (2 blues) with cichlids and never had a problem, does depend on what cichlids you are refering to IMO... my angels were always well able to hold their own and some geo's won't even bother them but mine are in with 2 young gt's at the moment and giv as good as they can get
i'm more worried about their other tankmates but not because of the angels.
alot of fish won't bother corries either and angels are 1 of them

Yes i did point that out to her, but she stuck to her guns and said that if u wanna keep cichlids then basically rehouse all you other fish and start from scratch.I just presumed that she knew something i didn't. they had 4 juvenile convicts in there not bigger than an inch, I was waiting to see some so i could add them to my tank .But apparently they are not compatible with anything i have lol.So i guess i'll have to sneak another tank into my house and try and get some in the future.

But my main concern now is what she said about the size of the angels and the size tank they will need.Atm I have 3 angel fish , they have doubled if not tripled in size since i got them.And i'm worried they have out grown their suroundings already, she reckoned that they will grow to 6-8 inches in height and will need at least 120L of water each.If this is the case then i will have to find these guys new homes.


@Daveyc. i think they are altum angels, but im not the best at remembering names. and it was convict cichlids i wanted to keep with them.

Cheers stuart.

PS, just realised i spelt Angels wrong lol it's been a long day.

don't get rid of any fish is my advise... if you do she'll prob never agree to another tank coming in
they are gonna be some size angels

The only thing that would make sense about what you were told in the shop is if they meant that Angelfish are not compatible with African Cichlids. TO a certain extent this is true, the natural habitats and requirements of the fish based on this are quite different. The Angelfish originates in South America, general area of the Amazon Basin and lives in more acidic waters.
Compare this to the Rift Lake Cichlids and the waters they live in are quite alkaline with a PH of 8 or more.

Assuming that you are dealing with tank bred cichlids and Angelfish, then there is no reason, other than temperament of course, why the fish cannot be mixed. Tank bred fish will be more tolerant of water parameters different from the natural habitat than wild caught fish would be. The most critical factor in this case would be the stability of the tank parameters. Obviously, you would not put angelfish in a tank with the more aggressive rift valley Cichlids.

Worth thinking about too are the south and Central American Cichlids, some of which hail from the same region as angels anyway. Some, by no means all, of these species can be quite placid unless breeding, the same goes for some of the rift valley cichlids.
Some of these species are perfectly ok in a community set-up as long as you take care and do some research on the tank mates you add with them. Most cichlids, including angelfish, would eat smallest fish species such as Neon Tetras, small Rasboras etc. Larger tetras and various other species would be perfectly ok in a community set-up with some of the more placid cichlids.

Most Cichlid keepers stock so called dither fish species with their cichlids, there are several reasons for this including the fact that they can make cichlids less jittery. Typically, cichlids when spooked, which can happen very easily, they will dive for cover and can do themselves an injury very easily, however with the dither fish, they get used to a lot of movement in the tank and are not so easily spooked. Depending on the set-up of the tank too, the dither fish can provide a point of interest in the tank too. Most will occupy the middle to upper water layers whereas most cichlids will stay in the lower to mid layers.

so in a nutshell, there is no reason why you could not keep angels or other cichlids in a community set-up. The key is to research the requirements of the fish with regard to space required, water parameters, temp etc. If they are compatible on these criteria, then there is no reason why you should not add them.

Regarding the size of your tank versus the potential size of angelfish, this is worth thinking about. They can grow to quite a size, 5"+ in diameter, admittedly they rarely get this big in aquaria but can still achieve a n impressive size. Angels prefer to be kept in groups, 6 or more, if you plan to only keep a few, then you are better off with only one in the tank. In smaller numbers, they tend to bully the weakest fish in the group. However, if you have angels in your tank and they are quite small, then there is no reason to get rid of them right away. You could keep them until they get too big for the tank. Angelfish do require a bit of free swimming space in the tank, they do not do well in a tank where they do not have open water to swim freely in.

Hope this helps

Cheers,

Bill.

just noticed your edit there... altums sound about right and totaly different to my blues

altums need a huge tank but are stunning full grown, sorry i can't help with their compatability with convicts because i've realy only seen them housed with geo's.... i did hear you need reasonable sized shoalers to put with them.

To be quite honest wild angelfish would be most happy in water conditions suitable for many african cichlids as there are many african cichlids that are not from the rift valley.

However, that is not to say that the differing signs of aggression would not cause a problem.

Similarly, wild angelfish are not compatible with water conditions for most central american cichids.

There is a general problem with sweeping statements on cichlids....their behaviour, their aggression, and their water conditions. It is a large family of many varied fish.

It is possible to keep angelfish with discus fish, for example,....so that is a mixed cichlid tank.
If angelfish are recommended to be kept with corydoras etc then that is a not a cichlid-only tank.

Angelfish are fairly large cichlids....maybe best described as medium-sized cichlids. Height can be 12 to 15 inches quite easily. The discoid shape means that the body mass inch per inch is much higher than a torpedo shaped cichlid.....that means more water volume is required per inch of fish than you would need for torpedo shaped fish.
Also, with a high temperature and high daily food intake they require a good turn-over of water with a good oxygen supply.

Ian

Cheers guys ,

A bit more research into the subject is needed so before i do anything.But if ye look at some of my older posts I never planned to have angels in my tank.They were a rescue case and now they are back to full health and seem happy , I might try and move them on as i fear they are already to big for my tank.My origional goal was to have convicts, in a small community setting and see if they would breed.Would convicts get along with some danio's and cloud minnows ,or will i need to stock different "dither" fish that would suit them better?

Thanks for the all the help so far

Stuart.

Hi,
in my opinion in a 120 l tank, only 1 pair of convicts would work. They are super aggressive when breeding wnd fry caring, and will kill everything else in the tank.

Will they just defend their fry and territory? or will they chase down and kill everything?

Cheers Stuart.

In my experiance they will attack anything in the tank and definately chase other fish around

No wonder they're called convict cichlids then lol.