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Retirement and forum shutdown (17 Jan 2022)

Hi,

John Howell who has managed the forum for years is getting on and wishes to retire from the role of managing it.
Over the years, he has managed the forum through good days and bad days and he has always been fair.
He has managed to bring his passion for fish keeping to the forum and keep it going for so long.

I wish to thank John for his hard work in keeping the forum going.

With John wishing to "retire" from the role of managing the forum and the forum receiving very little traffic, I think we must agree that forum has come to a natural conclusion and it's time to put it to rest.

I am proposing that the forum be made read-only from March 2022 onwards and that no new users or content be created. The website is still registered for several more years, so the content will still be accessible but no new topics or replies will be allowed.

If there is interest from the ITFS or other fish keeping clubs, we may redirect traffic to them or to a Facebook group but will not actively manage it.

I'd like to thank everyone over the years who helped with forum, posted a reply, started a new topic, ask a question and helped a newbie in fish keeping. And thank you to the sponsors who helped us along the away. Hopefully it made the hobby stronger.

I'd especially like to thank John Howell and Valerie Rousseau for all of their contributions, without them the forum would have never been has successful.

Thank you
Darragh Sherwin

fish loss

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28 Jan 2016 10:53 #1 by robert (robert carter)
when I checked my tank this morning all the fish gasping at the surface ,my fantastic albino bristlenose along with 1 tiger barb ,1 cardinal and 1 rosy barb dead. have just done an emergency 25 % water change ,installed a power head with a venture on it and haven't fully filled the tank to allow better flow back into the tank from the two externals. checked water temp all ok and co2 just incase something happened all ok. so have no idea what happened so quickly to deplete the oxegen level so dramaticly. wont feed today at all . anyone any ideas

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28 Jan 2016 11:08 #2 by robert (robert carter)
Replied by robert (robert carter) on topic fish loss
just wondering if I have found the problem , think I may have overdosed the water treatment when doing my water on Tuesday by 10 times. anyone any ideas . using jbl biotopol

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28 Jan 2016 11:26 #3 by Blue Land (Brian McGeever)
I had this once before some time ago.

The issue I ahd was there was no surface agitation of the water. This is where the exchange of oxygen and CO2 occurs in a tank.

If the the tank surface is flat and calm, it reduces the exchange, reducing the available oxygen and consequently causing the fish to gasp at surface.

The fact that you/ve installed a powerhead with venturi should help the issue.

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28 Jan 2016 12:11 #4 by Q_Comets (Declan Chambers)
How long has the tank been running and did you clean the filter on Tuesday?

Gasping could be low o2 or ammonia spike did you test?

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28 Jan 2016 13:29 - 28 Jan 2016 13:31 #5 by gunnered72 (Eddy Gunnered)
Definitely test for Ammonia and NitrItes.....

Also test your PH...It may have crashed!

I would do a 50% water change but thats just me....(I swear by 50% water changes both as a weekly regime and in an emergency)

Because Biotopol is a dechlorinator its very hard if at all possible to overdose...I dont think thats your problem...
Last edit: 28 Jan 2016 13:31 by gunnered72 (Eddy Gunnered).

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28 Jan 2016 14:32 #6 by robert (robert carter)
Replied by robert (robert carter) on topic fish loss
hi lads thanks for the replies ,tank is 350 litre community filtration 1. aquaone cf1200 and one crystal profiti e1500 . 20% waterchange done on Tuesday night ,ammonia zero nitrate zero nitrate 12.5 .ph 7.2 when I tested on Tuesday. it is now a few hours since this happened all fish seem happy and nothing is gasping at the surface . really annoyed that I lost the albino brisrtlenose I thought these were a hardy fish . am going to leave the water level down a bit for tonight and then decide what to do to get a higher oxyegen level into the tank . what really baffles me is why did this happen now when nothing was changed .tank is up and running since September without any fish loss

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28 Jan 2016 15:52 #7 by alan 64 (alan)
Replied by alan 64 (alan) on topic fish loss
u have a 350 litre tank with 2 filters running with regular water changes there sould be no need for ur tank to be starved of oxygen have u an accurate drop checker if u are running c02

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28 Jan 2016 19:17 #8 by robert (robert carter)
Replied by robert (robert carter) on topic fish loss
Hi Alan ,that's exactly what I thought and since September haven't had a single issue with the tank . Yes I have a good co2 bubble counter and anyway its on a solinoid so doesn't come on till 12 midday. It has me completely baffled just doesnt make any sense why this happened so quickly . Certainly oxegen or the lack of it was the problem ,but why and what has to be done to prevent it happening again.

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28 Jan 2016 19:33 #9 by alan 64 (alan)
Replied by alan 64 (alan) on topic fish loss
Have u a drop checker in the tank to measure the c02 content

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28 Jan 2016 20:22 #10 by robert (robert carter)
Replied by robert (robert carter) on topic fish loss
Hi Alan, yes I do have a co2 checker in the tank and its light green so it seems it not co2 problem

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29 Jan 2016 19:45 #11 by robert (robert carter)
Replied by robert (robert carter) on topic fish loss
Well just to finish this topic ,firstly found 3 more dead fish this morning, all other fish are fine no sign of anyone gasping at the surface . Today enstailed a second powered filter with a venturi also altered the return from the e1500 so that it cases the water surface to ripple.. only downside is that it makes the tank quite noise . Of coarse still don't know why this happened now after the tank set up since September

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29 Jan 2016 21:35 #12 by ger310 (Ger .)
Replied by ger310 (Ger .) on topic fish loss
What are your ammonia and Nitrite readings today?.........To find fish gasping and to then find fish dead yesterday and again today is not good dude.......and because your other fish look fine does not mean they are and I would be worried for them unless you get this sorted asap!!

If what you say is correct regarding Co2,nothing changed in the tank etc. then these things just don't happen (i'm assuming you do weekly 15-30% water changes and maintenance)........Even if there was rotten food/fish in the tank somewhere you could not see it would have to be a lot to cause this much trouble in a 350L tank but would be worth your while checking behind wood-stones etc. at the back of the tank ......Them 2 externals your running would cause easily enough water agitation to create oxygen in the tank so unless your pointing the outflow nozzle towards the substrate it's highly unlikely it's a lack of water agitation that's causing the problem!!

Continue to do daily large water changes or if you can find the time do smaller water changes 2-3 times a day

These things don't just happen for no reason after 4-5 months of a tank being running ok so there is something your doing or not doing that needs to change ok or this will continue i'm afraid!!

Ps.i hope i'm not coming across as a dick as like the others who commented we are only trying to help you from our own experiences ok

Ger

What do you call a three legged Donkey?

A Wonkey....duh ha :)

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29 Jan 2016 22:52 #13 by robert (robert carter)
Replied by robert (robert carter) on topic fish loss
Hi Ger .thanks for your reply , at this stage I am pretty sure the problem was lack of oxygen , I think the dead fish I found this morning were probably dead since yesterday and being in a rush for work didn't see them. As I said in my last post I did a few changes to the mercanics of the tank today , I have just fed ,first time in 36 hours and all seems good . 20% water change was done last Tuesday and all water test were good,plus the 20% done as an emergency on Thursday . Will carefully monitor things over the weekend. I am only back with tropicals about a year and am really grateful for anyone's views or advise . Thanks robert

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30 Jan 2016 03:56 #14 by paulv (paul vickers)
Replied by paulv (paul vickers) on topic fish loss
Speaking from my own experience, I cleaned the filter on a tank using fresh water instead of tank water, caused a spike in ammonia for a few days, lost fish then including a royal pleco. Did you clean the filter recently?.

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30 Jan 2016 10:57 #15 by robert (robert carter)
Replied by robert (robert carter) on topic fish loss
Hi Paul , thanks for your post , I didn't clean the filter last Tuesday , I have two externals on the tank and clean them alternary bi monthly ,so last Tuesday all I did was a gravel clean and 20% water change . Have just done water test this morning ammonia zero , nitrite zero, and nitrate 12.5 .I am totally convinced that the problem was lack of oxygen , this has now been sorted . However what bugs me is why did this happen .

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30 Jan 2016 13:34 #16 by Blue Land (Brian McGeever)
Robert
When this occurred with me, it was on a long established discus tank.
I was doing and still do 25% water changes on a weekly basis. But at the time there were work and other issues at play, which stalled my filter maintenance. I think it may have gone out to 3 months.

When I thought about it afterwards, all was set up correctly originally, with the water agitating the surface, but as time went on the filter slowly got choked up with all sorts and the water flow decreased, resulting in less and less agitation of the surface.

Is it possible that you may have set your filters to perhaps barely break surface in the 1st place with the passage of time, the filter becomes less efficient in water thoughput reducing or eliminating the agitation.

I hope it makes sense.

If its any consolation, at the time, I just turned the outputs on the filter to really stir the surface and all settled down thereafter.

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30 Jan 2016 14:19 #17 by robert (robert carter)
Replied by robert (robert carter) on topic fish loss
hi ,thanks for your post , what I have done is add a powerhead with a venturi and as you sudjest have raised the externals output pipe to the surface level to increase water movement

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30 Jan 2016 16:55 #18 by paulv (paul vickers)
Replied by paulv (paul vickers) on topic fish loss
Hopefully the surface agitation will solve the problem. It's strange how it's only become a problem now after 5 months. There must be an underlying cause, maybe related to the co2for the plants.

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30 Jan 2016 17:56 #19 by robert (robert carter)
Replied by robert (robert carter) on topic fish loss
I know it has me baffled , don't think its co2 as it is off at night . the main thing that it appears to be solved now

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03 Feb 2016 01:13 #20 by derek (Derek Doyle)
Replied by derek (Derek Doyle) on topic fish loss
Other possibilities are very high temperature or external pollutant such as paint or perfume/hairspray.

30 tanks specialise in african cichlids, angelfish and various catfish

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03 Feb 2016 09:03 #21 by robert (robert carter)
Replied by robert (robert carter) on topic fish loss
hi Derek , I am convinced it was lack of oxyegen , its now a week since it happened and with the changes I made all is good . would of coarse still love to know why it happened all of a sudden .

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03 Feb 2016 11:22 #22 by lectru (Lech)
Replied by lectru (Lech) on topic fish loss
Hi Robert
One of the factors that should be considered is that plants produce co2 during night. If You push limits of co2 injected in to tank during the day there is a chance that co2 from plants could rise it to toxic levels for fish.
Regards

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03 Feb 2016 13:41 #23 by robert (robert carter)
Replied by robert (robert carter) on topic fish loss
hi lectru , I am not altogether sure of what you are advising , very new to co2 , my co2 comes on one hour before the lights and goes off one hour before lights out ,the co2 indicator in the tank is a nice green colour

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03 Feb 2016 13:49 - 03 Feb 2016 13:53 #24 by gunnered72 (Eddy Gunnered)
As far as I know plants do not produce Co2 at all (night or day)....What happens is after lights out they stop absorbing Co2 from the water column (Its part of the plant photosynthesis system)...This is why most planted tank enthusiasts who use Co2 injection systems will hook their Co2 system up to the same timer as their lights so as soon as the lights go out the Co2 system switches off and stops injecting the Co2....Putting Co2 of any kind (Injected gas or liquid form) into a planted tank after the lights go out is a waste of time and money...The Co2 doesnt get used up and as far as i know disperses at the water surface via surface agitation...(So you are basically just wasting it)

Somebody correct me if im wrong?????

Im now wondering Robert if your Co2 system didnt switch off that night and if maybe this led to the oxygen depletion you think your fish died from?
Last edit: 03 Feb 2016 13:53 by gunnered72 (Eddy Gunnered).

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03 Feb 2016 16:53 #25 by robert (robert carter)
Replied by robert (robert carter) on topic fish loss
Thanks for your reply ,when I noticed the problem the lights were off , I checked the co2 and it was off so the solenoid was working ok. my understanding was that while plants didn't use co2 at night they did produce it ,but I may be wrong with that . as my wife says she is the only one in our house that is always right.

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03 Feb 2016 20:45 #26 by lectru (Lech)
Replied by lectru (Lech) on topic fish loss
Gunnered72 you are absolutely right - my fault. It was about concept a read and understood by wrong way.

What it was about that if you had been saturating the water with CO2 during the light hours, when you turn them off, the plants stop generating O2 but still breathing, which can kill the fishes by lack of oxygen or saturation of CO2. Surface turbulence and/or airstone helps to avoid the problem, by injecting O2 into the tank, in one side, and favouring the removal of CO2, in the other side. And I would thrust drop checker to be very accurate all time but rather check Ph drop curve during co2 injection for saturation of it in the water column.
Regards

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