Should HUGE Fish importation be allowed?

In response to a recent thread in which an arapaima was being discussed, and also in view of some other threads on what might be in the realms of conservation questions or concerns that may be posted in a section that goes into obscurity....
could it be possible to have a section that allows postings on all things conservation, nature etc etc to be posted.

That section could be used for updates on IUCN or CITES or NPWS info other items that might be considered legislation.

And that posts come under the 'most recent' list (I think that some sections don't always come up under the 'recents list' (not sure, maybe I'm asleep half the time).

ian

Ian,

Thank you for the suggestion - We'll have a look at adding something like this

igmillichip wrote:

... maybe I'm asleep half the time ...

No, you're not ... I noticed that yesterday and changed the setting on the website. Now, the "latest posts" should all show.

Thanks - Valerie

JohnH wrote:

I must start by saying the views I am expressing are only those of my own - and absolutely not the views of the Forum.

I am extremely opposed to people trying to keep absolute monster Fish - those which will outgrow any sized aquarium which anyone barring a Lotto winner could provide.

It is with this view in mind that I am suggesting exporters of such Fish should not be allowed to offer them for sale in the first place!
If they aren't available, they cannot be imported into Ireland (and any other country, for that matter).

Since Arapaimas are the subject of discussion here, let's use them as an example.
They are thought to be the largest Freshwater Fish anywhere in the world, although this could possibly be incorrect.
They are all but extinct where they come from, OK - I realise there is a breeding programme to try to reinstate numbers in the wild, but commercial fishing will always take a huge toll so the benefit of this might become a 'lost cause'.

I've stated this before, but it bears repeating...even the largest tank anyone could provide would be little more than a large puddle to a huge Fish - these grow to around ten feet in length, for God's sake!

I, for one, think import should be banned.
I'm going to try to set up a poll for this and each and every one will be able to vote accordingly - but in the meantime let's hear your views.

John

My own view on this is that no Monster Fish should not be banned
My reasoning as a fish keeper it is my responsabilty to research the fish i keep and to make sure that the fish in my tank have more than sufficiant room.and if i had the money and room then yes i would love to have some really big water massas with some really big fish.

And how do you define a monster fish:
A 10 foot Arapaimas in a 20 foot pond
Or a the common pleco in Fluval edge.

I personal think ownership falls on firstly the fish keeper to get the fish to suit there aquarium
And to person selling the fish to ask a couple of basic questions before selling large fish

Im with JohnH on this one.
My view is that the sheer size of these fish dictates where they should live, and not the hobbykeeper simply wanting a large fish to show to everyone in a tank, that while it may be massive in aquarium terms is indeed merley a puddle in real terms when you consider the likes of the Arapaima size. The fish is not an ornament,it is not there to look pretty,it has to have a standard of living, and we as fishkeepers have a moral right to do whats best for the fish. The petshops also have a right to ensure that either these fish are housed correctly or are simply not encouraged in the trade.

In saying that, it is also the responsibilty of the fish trade which very much includes the petshops to ensure they take the correct decision in making a purchase of these massive fish. Are the fish being purchased to generate abit of hype or are they being purchased because someone has a massive tank that can house these fish?(I very much doubt anyone has a tank on here that has a volume of 10,000 - 30,000 + litres to even attempt to keep these fish. While you may laugh at the figure of 10,000 - 30,000 you must genuinely remember the sheer size of the fish and their likely lifespan of 15 years of so.(Im estamating those figures but if it grows to 8-10 foot then its damn well gonna need a v big tank).

In keeping large animals is it similar to keeping an elephant in your back yard and providing a 20 foot run for them to live.It simply isnt ethical to do that. They survive but at what cost, a long slow miserable life which results in all sort of unknown behavioural problems and much pain. Try living in a shoebox,its a similar senario I would suspect.
There is also the cost scenario,while the initial purchase may not be overly damaging, the day to day cost in feeding and maintaining the fish will add up rather quickly.Once it grows out of its juvenille stage ( and all petshops will get these when they are smaller,its easier to sell on), a new tank will need to be provided and the cycle continues until eventually the owner realises that they simply cannot continue to upgrade the tank. When making any purchase of a fish, you are purchasing the fish for live,not for a period of time until you can move it on because you get bored of it or cant house it. If you cant house them dont buy it,simple as that. I dont see why a petshop would take on the likes of this fish,they must know that it is risky in taking a fish like this on,the odds are it may well end up back in the shop after a year if its lucky enough to have lived that long under possible cramped conditions by someone who just couldnt keep it long term.

These fish are most certainly not an aquarium fish, they merely survive in any tank. Is it not our goal to make them thrive rather than just survive. Ethics,morals and cruelity all come to mind when I think of fish this size being kept in a small confinment. I could add more but Im gonna take a step back,read others opinions and add to mine later.
In summary,I am against the import of fish of this size. Its serves no purpose. We should also consider the rarity of these fish, they are endangered in the wild. I cant help but feel many people are drawn to purchase these kind of fish purely down to that rare factor to appease their own selfishness.

Gavin

(ps: My thoughts are on the subject purely, and not against anyone or any shop.I just wanna make that clear).

Can i ask are we just using the Arapaima or monster fish in generall

David wrote:

I personal think ownership falls on firstly the fish keeper to get the fish to suit there aquarium
And to person selling the fish to ask a couple of basic questions before selling large fish

I believe that if the above two set of people do there part first there would be no need to ban the import of monster fish as there would be no requirement for them

I think Monster fish in general is the discussion,albeit I mentioned the Arapaima as it was being discussed earlier. Lets say Monster fish instead so as to ensure we dont bring any confusion to the matter.

Some good points made here in a few posts.
And hopefully, citations of specific shops will remain out of this.

Moving into different realms, there are a number of items to consider....
we've had a CITES mention, but there is more to it than that.
The IUCN listings is important, and so are national or EU legislations to consider with any import.
Potentially invasive species are also a problem to consider.

Then, as may or may not, be the subject here the moral question on which fish. That will always be subjective, but the input of objective info will help.

My take is not necessarily whether to ban big fish or not, but more of a case of people should be aware of responsibilities with a large fish.

I have large species of fish, and have handled large specimens of monster fish.
There are major difficulties in housing such fish, but there are means of keeping them in captivity.

ian

no i dont beleive there is a need to ban the importation of monster fish ,i just think common sense should prevail.if a fish is goiung to grow to 8 feet only a public aquaria or someone with an indoor swimming pool is going to have the facilitys to accomidate such an animal long term. is there not a more pressing issue with some of the fish that is regularly seen in shops like oscars and common plecs that end up in 2ft tanks not to mention the thousands of gold fish in the country living in bowls.
these are my opinions and mine alone not the itfs
john

i'm glad the plec was mentioned because this can grow to be a real monster, relatively speaking. i wouldn't get one for my 4' tank but people would buy them for much smaller ones. i have friends that keep "monster" fish but they are not the knuckledraggers who feed mice to arowana, they are responsible and just have an interst in large specimine and predatory fish. if i had the space i'd love an arapaima - they are a fascinating prehistoric species. the onus should be on the retailer but that puts a big onus on them - shops are businesses be it selling paper or live animals and many pet shops have a 'chance it' attitude and i realise why: make money or close down. however, if they sell too irresponsibly and they get a very bad reputation and lose respect and custom which is why alot of shops do strive to ensure the fish such as monster fish go to responsible keepers who are made fully aware of the care required. at the end of they day a shop supplies a demand, if someone demands a monster fish and the shop can supply it then they are ony doing what they got into the business for, BUT the consumer MUST BE MADE FULLY AWARE OF WHAT THEY ARE REQUIRED TO DO to care for said fish, and this responsibility falls on both their own research and the proper advice of the seller

Should HUGE Fish importation be allowed?

YES it should, within reason...




Des

sorry des can i ask what setup u where going to put the arapaima in if ok?

if I want an Arapiama Gigas
I am fully entitled to have one
if I want an Electric Eel
I am fully entitled to have one
if I want a Bolt Cat
I am fully entitled to have one
etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.
(terms and conditions apply)

"Bringing 4 of these bad boys (Arapiama Gigas) into the place is crazy" , nonsense IMO
I know more than four people that have more than adequate housing for such fish
I won't say any names because that is their business and not anyone elses, if they feel like adding to this, fine, if not, then even better, they don't have to prove or justify themselves to anyone IMO
"I cant see who is going to be able to house fish like this", shortsighted and presumptuous IMO, just because someone doesn't know them, doesn't mean they don't exist...
"They are too large to house in an aquarium", this is true under normal circumstances...
"sorry but what about the people that what to buy arapaima,its not for the home aquarium.Why bring in the big fish if u cant sell it to anyone?", again shortsighted and presumptuous IMO, comments only apply under normal circumstances...
"you are purchasing the fish for life, not for a period of time until you can move it on because you get bored of it or cant house it", a ridiculous comment IMO
If You have a six foot aquarium and You get a fish that grows large, who is to say You can't provide a home and care for the fish until it grows 18" or so and then move it on to a more appropriate home ?
"a fish is for life", why is this ?, can't You keep a fish for a while and then move on ?
I think You'll find that this happens all the time with fish of a lesser stature...
"it may well end up back in the shop after a year", so what if it does, if the shop can provide better housing for the fish then what's the problem ?
"Is it not our goal to make them thrive rather than just survive ?", Of corse it is, for those who care anyway, this is precisely why the shop ordering them in will be extremely particular about who buys them... "Ethics" and "morals come to mind"...
"I cant help but feel many people are drawn to purchase these kind of fish purely down to that rare factor to appease their own selfishness", presumptuous and slightly ignorant IMO
not everyone is as vain as some might think...
people should not assume that if a fish grows big that it is inevitably doomed to a terrible excistance...
"My take is not necessarily whether to ban big fish or not, but more of a case of people should be aware of responsibilities with a large fish", I totally agree...

I could start spewing out a load of everyday commonplace examples of true Animal cruelty or type a litany of comments to scrutinize some of the over-emotional statements made on this subject but I have to feed My ten rottweilers, eight bull terriers and twelve dobermans...


Des

"(ps: My thoughts are on the subject purely, and not against anyone or any shop.I just wanna make that clear)"

Hi Des hope you feel a little better now, can i ask was ment to be posted hear or in the tropical fish section

des wrote:

if I want an Arapiama Gigas
I am fully entitled to have one
if I want an Electric Eel
I am fully entitled to have one
if I want a Bolt Cat
I am fully entitled to have one
etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.
(terms and conditions apply)

"Bringing 4 of these bad boys (Arapiama Gigas) into the place is crazy" , nonsense IMO
I know more than four people that have more than adequate housing for such fish
I won't say any names because that is their business and not anyone elses, if they feel like adding to this, fine, if not, then even better, they don't have to prove or justify themselves to anyone IMO
"I cant see who is going to be able to house fish like this", shortsighted and presumptuous IMO, just because someone doesn't know them, doesn't mean they don't exist...
"They are too large to house in an aquarium", this is true under normal circumstances...
"sorry but what about the people that what to buy arapaima,its not for the home aquarium.Why bring in the big fish if u cant sell it to anyone?", again shortsighted and presumptuous IMO, comments only apply under normal circumstances...
"you are purchasing the fish for life, not for a period of time until you can move it on because you get bored of it or cant house it", a ridiculous comment IMO
If You have a six foot aquarium and You get a fish that grows large, who is to say You can't provide a home and care for the fish until it grows 18" or so and then move it on to a more appropriate home ?
"a fish is for life", why is this ?, can't You keep a fish for a while and then move on ?
I think You'll find that this happens all the time with fish of a lesser stature...
"it may well end up back in the shop after a year", so what if it does, if the shop can provide better housing for the fish then what's the problem ?
"Is it not our goal to make them thrive rather than just survive ?", Of corse it is, for those who care anyway, this is precisely why the shop ordering them in will be extremely particular about who buys them... "Ethics" and "morals come to mind"...
"I cant help but feel many people are drawn to purchase these kind of fish purely down to that rare factor to appease their own selfishness", presumptuous and slightly ignorant IMO
not everyone is as vain as some might think...
people should not assume that if a fish grows big that it is inevitably doomed to a terrible excistance...
"My take is not necessarily whether to ban big fish or not, but more of a case of people should be aware of responsibilities with a large fish", I totally agree...

I could start spewing out a load of everyday commonplace examples of true Animal cruelty or type a litany of comments to scrutinize some of the over-emotional statements made on this subject but I have to feed My ten rottweilers, eight bull terriers and twelve dobermans...


Des

"(ps: My thoughts are on the subject purely, and not against anyone or any shop.I just wanna make that clear)"

===========================================================================================


Ok Ive carried this over from the other thread as it should of been in this thread.
Right where do I start!!

Short of been called short sighted,ignorant,presumptious I'll try to add my thoughts on the matter!(without underlining etc). Also I might be alot of things but I know Im not short sighted,ignorant nor presumptious.

Just because there are people out there that may be able to house a fish like this, does not mean they are going to arrive up to a petshop and buy one of these monsters. If its been ordered in specially for someone then I can understand,but I very much doubt that the amount of people with facilities that can adequately house these fish are impulse purchasers, its a niche market, and one that is not nearly as popular are some may think.Housing fish of this size correctly requires huge tanks, specially build and not just a few hundred litres. These run into the tens of thousands of litres, still think you know 4 private aquarist that have facilities of 10,000 litres plus.Id be interested to see some of those tanks!Just because you may be involved in keeping large fish Des does not mean the rest of the country doesn't understand the needs of these fish. Housing a fish of this size requires serious tank space, not just space to pop the fish into and see it live. Its about housing the fish sufficiently and correctly. If you feel that housing the fish for a short term period or until it gets too big is acceptable then thats your personal opinion,I however do not feel someone should house a fish unless they can cater fully for the needs of the fish from cradle to grave as they say.(in other words having the space to allow the fish reach its full potential).
As for the suggestion of buying a fish for a while and then moving it on, its not exactly easy to move these Monster fish on now is it. Returning it to the shop a year later isnt a solution. Does that mean we should all rush out and buy red tail catfish because they will look great when small but when it gets too big we will simply move the problem on and get another juvenille red tail catfish instead then. Im afraid I cant see the point in that. Its very much different than moving smaller fish on, comparing like with like really doesnt stack up. Moving these massive fish on is moving the problem on.

People arent presuming that fish are going to die because they grow big, but Id be willing to say that the majority of red tail catfish that are bought rarely end up reaching maturity. The ones you see survive in the monster fish game are the rarity, the ones that you dont see are the ones who have died from inappropriate housing,feeding etc..

The shop have a right to order them in,but if I arrive up and say Id be happy to house the fish as my tank is big enough right now to take the 10 inch specimen home,do they advise that the fish will grow to 10 foot,and do they refuse the sale on the basis that you are unable to house the fish beyond three times its present size ?? Or do they merely encourage people to try their hand at these unusual fish by stocking them in the first place and let the owner worry about the problem in 12 months time. Thats not promoting healthy fishkeeping in my opinion.Many of them are already endangered species.

As for the line "it may well end up back in the shop after a year", so what if it does, if the shop can provide better housing for the fish then what's the problem ?"

If it needs to be returned to the shop then surely that was the problem in the first place.

I accept opinions will be split on this topic, will be interesting to see what comes from it.

Gavin

Threads now merged. Thanks.

Jee ... you're fast on the keyboard fishowner !

Indeed, Des' post has now been brought over to this topic.

Valerie

Thanks Valerie! What are you thoughts on the subject? Alot of split opinions on the matter, makes for interesting reading!

Gavin

Indeed, interesting reading.

My thoughts have already been mostly reflected on this thread.

The guidelines should be tightly defined where the fish could be imported if the conditions in which it were going to be kept were similar to where it would evolve in nature. So, if I had a HUGE tank with the right conditions (water quality, temperature, tank mates, ...), I should be able to order a HUGE fish from my fish shop and bring it home to its perfect and happy world.
However, as it is very unlikely that I can reproduce these perfect conditions for a HUGE fish (money/space/climate ...), I'd expect that it'd be a complicated and onerous process.
I would like to see legislation framing this kind of process, so that such HUGE fish are not ordered from a shop in the hope to sell it to someone whatever the conditions.

However, if the conditions are right ... why not

Valerie

EDIT : My thoughts would be the same if we were talking about elephants too

Valerie wrote:

Indeed, interesting reading.

My thoughts have already been mostly reflected on this thread.

The guidelines should be tightly defined where the fish could be imported if the conditions in which it were going to be kept were similar to where it would evolve in nature. So, if I had a HUGE tank with the right conditions (water quality, temperature, tank mates, ...), I should be able to order a HUGE fish from my fish shop and bring it home to its perfect and happy world.
However, as it is very unlikely that I can reproduce these perfect conditions for a HUGE fish (money/space/climate ...), I'd expect that it'd be a complicated and onerous process.
I would like to see legislation framing this kind of process, so that such HUGE fish are not ordered from a shop in the hope to sell it to someone whatever the conditions.

However, if the conditions are right ... why not

Valerie

EDIT : My thoughts would be the same if we were talking about elephants too

In relation to guidelines were does it stop take the Goldfish and Goldfish bowl.
This is more complex than just the importing of monster fish,Which i dont have a problem with.
Just because a fish is a monster thats grows to 8 feet should not make him /her more important than a common Goldfish,Pleco

The topic is about HUGE fish, so I kept my rationale to this category.

However the 2 subjects are related as far as keeping animals in the best/most realistic environment possible - the HUGE fish issue is expensive and the implementation of such a set-up much more of a challenge while keeping a few goldfish in a tank as opposed to a bowl would be financially/physically achievable for most of us (though probably more difficult to implement).

However, the guidelines I was thinking about (I should have used the word "legislation" rather than guidelines) could probably encompass both.

Valerie

My view on this is pretty much that the freedom of choice has won over the need to protect such monster species...Trying not to get distracted by other thoughts; i feel that at this time and age that we live in today; you cant stop someone who wants to do something...our LFS esp sponsors have a moral duty to warn customers what they are gonna be getting.

In this way it does prevent certain people from getting their hands on fishes which they have not the slightest chance in the world to ensure its survival. Im not saying if you have the money you can do what you like as im sure our sponsors are not gonna just simply sell you a monster fish without knowing your resources.

Im not against preservation of these species but one has to believe that the authorities where these species comes from would have the better idea regarding our debate and if they decide to allow such species to be exported; they must surely know what they are doing.

(Just my opinion)

Regards.

Valerie wrote:

The topic is about HUGE fish, so I kept my rationale to this category.

However the 2 subjects are related as far as keeping animals in the best/most realistic environment possible - the HUGE fish issue is expensive and the implementation of such a set-up much more of a challenge while keeping a few goldfish in a tank as opposed to a bowl would be financially/physically achievable for most of us (though probably more difficult to implement).

However, the guidelines I was thinking about (I should have used the word "legislation" rather than guidelines) could probably encompass both.

Valerie

Point taken, and this is why i did ask earlier in the thread for this particular topic a more defined explanation of hugh fish.

Is it based on sheer mass of the fish
Or mass of fish based on its enclosure.

For me any fish that is kept in an eneclosure which is not suitable for the fish to grow is a monster which is why i have made referance to both pleco and goldfish as these would be two fairly common fish which are kept in small tanks

to me a goldfish should be no less important a creature ,with no less fuss.i am interested in getting an arapaima and hopefully will be able to keep it in as little stress and good water quality as possible.my main tank is 11000 liters which i think would be ok for a few years ,and ihave plans developing for a bigger project.definately more room the better,my mix of ca sa cichlids show little agression to each other and the cats that are up to over 2.5 feet i think have plenty of space.people where saying of the high price of building a biggish tank,but i spent a lot less than i have seen people spend on setting up a 150 gal marine setup.
i found it great being able to source info on the net to build a system be able to keep these bigger fish,hopefully more people will have a go at keeping some of there dream fish,the information is out there.

brian

@Brian & David... I think that unsuitable conditions for a fish in general is a different take and maybe should be on a different thread.

I was once the curator of a public aquarium in the UK....and I never once had a dilemma on how to house a goldfish nor an oscar nor a asian arowanas. But I would have been pushed to work out where to put a pangasius (now Pangasianodon gigas and also CITES Appendix I) or a Arapaima (CITES Appendix II but of undefined state of threat on the IUCN listings).
No doubt I could have organised a suitable tank, but it wouldn't have been a matter of plonking it into the 'one of the left'.
That is my take on the title of the thread.

Also, maybe we should not be going down the route of quizzing someones personal facilities on this thread....as that leads us nowhere, and would deter people from contributing to important debates.


@Andrewo.....on this, just to give a wee bit of insight, I'd suggested a new section (1st post) based upon a recent debate on a Sponsors fish-list, and that post was merged into this thread. Part of the reason why I had wanted a special section was to have a section of the forum is that anyone can put their case as a fish-keeper (or as a fish vendor) without posting as if a Sponsor. (ie I like to see proper open debates where no-one has the advantage of the home-ground so to speak).

But it is quite interesting about advice from a shop..... different shops have differing levels of expertise at their finger-tips.

Now, I'm quite laissez faire about most things, but I do hear some surprises in shops when I see what is being sold to whom, and sometimes I do see some conflicting information..... eg a buyer may have their CV being checked to buy one type of large fish, yet the same place may happily sell another massive fish in a shoal!! eg buy a giant gourami and someone may interrogate you, but buying a shoal of six 18inch long each Clown Loaches for a 3 food tank is simply a 'good sale' (maybe it is because the clown loaches are not 2 foot long when sold).
That one has always bugged me, but again is not really the topic of this thread as giant gouramis are not really HUGE fish and many people could reasonably be able to house them in a standard front room (but not in a bargain tank from Lidl).

The other side is that huge fish are a potential to break existing laws already in Ireland.

Now, an Arapaima is unlikely to be an invasive species here.....but what about Sturgeons? or other huge monster fish that will easily cope with our conditions and may suddenly poise a problem for housing.
Are we going to see the same problem as we see with turtles being dumped into the wild?

The present law does not allow release of a non-native species into the wild, but going further.... the Wildlife Act (ROI) has an Article that has never ever yet been implemented in law: it is a provision for the minister of state to issue guidelines (and that means secondary legislation without having to go through the Dail as a Bill) to not allow possession of a species that is likely to be a threat to the native environment. Very interesting.

In the world of herpetology, there are similar debates. But, when talking about size, there is a big difference between a 10 foot snake and a 10 foot fish.
Also, we see the question of crocodilians: in the UK and NI, these come under the Dangerous Wild Animals Acts anyway, but no such legislation exists in the ROI. It is possible for an individual to safely home and care for a croc.....but not in a 3 foot fish tank bought in Lidl at xmas.
Now, with that particular trade....pet shops tend not to sell crocodilans things anymore, but that has opened the doors for backstreet (or car-park) traders to get in on the act.

ian

to early to read, just give opinion.
import for sale? no, if this fish is endangered then no public sale wat so ever should be ever contemplated

but if dedicated honest fish stores can house this, where it can be regulary checked by officals in the fish world (i doubt such checks take place but i bet people have very la'de'da titles) and more important the experts that spend their hard earned dollar then this is a fintastic idea (did u see wat i did there, fintastic) you could even get one of them stickers you see on trucks but edit it to "how's my swimming, call 1800yada yada yada" and grass the owner up big style and take away his/her importing licence, that would keep folk on their toes

such gibberish probably does not exist but heavy laws should to protect certain fish

public sale, no
public display, yes most certainly

www.fish-photography.info/basic-fishkeep...fficult-subjects.htm dont know if this helps but may be interesting?

can those people involved in public aquaria and general large fish keeping expand on what they thinks needed for these fish from there experiences ,it would be very helpfull to people trying push forward the care in captivity of bigger fish.

thanx

dar i think you hit the nail on the head there. although your puns need some work...

IF there is mestreating of an animal of any sort in any shop or public or private place, its up to the public to make the relevant authorities aware of the situation and let them deal with it

someone mentioned goldfish and pleco's which to me are HUGE fish in relation to the size aquaria to which they are housed and knowingly sold to be housed in unsuitable tanks. we cant educate everyone on proper care of fish but i'm sure a beginner fish keeper wont go ordering a 2k asian arowana for their new 40l tank as probably they wont know what an arowana is (and some shops dont know either) so people who know something about fishkeeping would no doubt research the monster or huge fish they want and if they have any morals they would ensure they have the correct habitat for it

fish classed as monster fish should be bought through special order - they are often available from suppliers and if someone asks about it at least the shop can pass on care information prior to ordering (this also stops the fish being returned a year later to the shops) so it stops the likes of someone seeing a small pearl arowana and buying it straight out the tank, no questions asked

I only have a few of the medium sized species of what are called 'larger fish' at present, eg lungfish, Polytperus endlicheri, Scleropages jardini, Osteoglossum bicirrhosum as my present living arrangements don't allow for many of these types of fish. I only decided to go back to keeping these larger fish just over 2 years ago.

In the past I had larger fish (including an electric catfish....like a four foot pig sitting in a tank), but those days have gone, and was the curator of public aquarium having some nice sized fish (with quite good facilities for the 1970s).

There are fish that I would love to keep...eg Paddlefish and an arapaima, but there is a limit.

Firstly, the tank and food requirements are a forgone conclusion for even these types of fish.
That's a no-brainer especially when we consider the other problems.
For even bigger fish those problems start become quite pronounced.

A number of the huge fish are on CITES appendix I or II (eg sturgeons, arapaima). That is a key thing to remember, and there is a need to consider that something has not been robbed out of the waters. There may be paperwork to deal with...... don't see that as a problem: if everything is legit then there is nothing to worry about on that side.

Not all CITES listed species are endangered though.

Handling.....big fish take a lot of handling. They can be very powerful.
Now, what we may see here is a come-back of 'well use lots of strength'....but that is not the answer.
Stress levels in large fish can go through the ceiling if caught or attempted to be caught. Being powerful, you would need to exert a large amount of strength to restrain them, and that is something that they will not necessarily take kindly to.

Injuries from these fish pelting at the side or top of the tank, or injuries sustained during handling all need to be considered before getting such a fish.

Also, larger specimens of the bony tongued fish (aros, arapaima) can leap with force. That force needs a good lid, and your head should not get in the way (ie a health hazard).

There is a skill in handling a large fish and keeping it alive that is much greater than with small fish.

Longevity.....we are not talking about a 2 year over-sized pain in the butt with these large fish. Longevity is long. That is potentially a long-term potential that needs to be considered.

Is the intention to grow it on to a certain extent and then get rid of it?
if so, then the owner would need to ask themselves if that is right or wrong (I'm not going to judge that, that is a decision that an owner has to make).
Who could take such a large specimen? Does the local public aquarium have facilities?

Is it something to be dumped in out local rivers or lakes (a sturgeon could, and so could many other huge fish)? if that is a thought, then that is breaking the law and is a threat to our native species.

If one is fortunate enough to have a pond or a lake to put these fish in safely then things get easier, but not if our climate happens to conflict with their needs.

Can they be kept in captivity?..... yes they can, we see it is possible.
Should they be kept in captivity? well, that is a subjective topic.

A few other questions....
should shops decide who to sell these fish to?
should the government decide if these fish can be sold at all at all?
should there be a special licensing system whereby certain species require a license to buy after a centrally controlled inspection is done? (This is done with DWA listed species in the UK and NI).

Just food for thought rather than a judgement; I'm in the middle somewhat.

ian