reduced PH

Hi all ,

The ph from the taps in the house is around 7.2 or so , same in the tank , which for the last few months has just bog wood and rocks in it . I have been soaking some new pieces of bog wood that i was given in a tub outside for the last few weeks . Tested the water this moring from the tub and the ph was around 6.2 .


anyone know why it would have dropped so much , as the tank has never changed with wood in it , large enough pieces too . Not sure whether I should use this wood now ..

Any suggestions or reasons for the drop would great ..

i have found there's good and bad bogwood, the bad doesn't lower ph whereas the good does and gives the water that good natural deep looking stain (although some opinions may be that i have gotten it backwards depending on the desired results)... i have both types and will only try to buy the good bogwood because it suits me.

just my 2cents!

davey_c wrote:

i have found there's good and bad bogwood, the bad doesn't lower ph whereas the good does and gives the water that good natural deep looking stain (although some opinions may be that i have gotten it backwards depending on the desired results)... i have both types and will only try to buy the good bogwood because it suits me.

just my 2cents!

Thanks Dave , So are my concerns unfounded , as my ph has always been a stable 7.2 , and stable PH is important .. If i use this new wood and it drops the PH am i not asking for trouble ? ( or will the fish acclimatise )

the fish will adapt as the ph has obviously dropped slowly, out of interest what fish do you have in there as they all require different ph ranges and we'll be able to advise you properly

sheag35 wrote:

the fish will adapt as the ph has obviously dropped slowly, out of interest what fish do you have in there as they all require different ph ranges and we'll be able to advise you properly

curently barbs ( tiger , green , cherry ) , small cory's , danio's ...



Actualy have been thinking of changing to some blue rams , but have felt the ph at 7.2 may be an issue as they are delicate etc ..

all should be fine in your current setup at either ph, remember most community fish today are mass bred (not wild) and so are generally used to a ph around 7, all the species here will be fine in ph of 6.2, i wouldnt go much lower than that barbs generally have a tolerance to around ph 6 danios can go as low as ph5, as for the blue rams yes they can be delicate ( god knows they are my jonah fish, cant keep the buggers alive, even though i have more delicate species thriving) but as long as water quality is good and the fish is within its natural ph range you should be fine

That is quite an increase in free acid.....an increase in 10 times the concentration of free acid.

The level by which bog-wood will drop the pH depends on alkalinity of the water and on wood itself.

Different bog-woods are different woods and different degrees of "bogginess" (so to speak).

Some may release their acids slowly and quite evenly over time, others might release a lot in one go and then eventually will teeter out releasing acids.

The drive to release acids will also depend upon the pH of the water around them, but the speed of release cannot be so easily calculated.

Fish will soon show if the decrease is too much or too fast with signs of acidosis developing quite quickly.

ian

igmillichip wrote:

That is quite an increase in free acid.....an increase in 10 times the concentration of free acid.

The level by which bog-wood will drop the pH depends on alkalinity of the water and on wood itself.

Different bog-woods are different woods and different degrees of "bogginess" (so to speak).

Some may release their acids slowly and quite evenly over time, others might release a lot in one go and then eventually will teeter out releasing acids.

The drive to release acids will also depend upon the pH of the water around them, but the speed of release cannot be so easily calculated.

Fish will soon show if the decrease is too much or too fast with signs of acidosis developing quite quickly.

ian

yeah , its weird .. from 7.2 to around 6.2 .. OK , great post Ian , acidosis !


anyway , you think I should forget these bits of bog , and release back to the wild bog ?

bmcg38 wrote:

igmillichip wrote:

That is quite an increase in free acid.....an increase in 10 times the concentration of free acid.

The level by which bog-wood will drop the pH depends on alkalinity of the water and on wood itself.

Different bog-woods are different woods and different degrees of "bogginess" (so to speak).

Some may release their acids slowly and quite evenly over time, others might release a lot in one go and then eventually will teeter out releasing acids.

The drive to release acids will also depend upon the pH of the water around them, but the speed of release cannot be so easily calculated.

Fish will soon show if the decrease is too much or too fast with signs of acidosis developing quite quickly.

ian

yeah , its weird .. from 7.2 to around 6.2 .. OK , great post Ian , acidosis !


anyway , you think I should forget these bits of bog , and release back to the wild bog ?

Nope.
They may actually be beneficial......your alkalinity in the tanks may have been not great in the first place, and these may somehow buffer the water a bit better.

Maybe an extra soaking and adding warm water to the soak may be a good idea.

ian

igmillichip wrote:

bmcg38 wrote:

igmillichip wrote:

That is quite an increase in free acid.....an increase in 10 times the concentration of free acid.

The level by which bog-wood will drop the pH depends on alkalinity of the water and on wood itself.

Different bog-woods are different woods and different degrees of "bogginess" (so to speak).

Some may release their acids slowly and quite evenly over time, others might release a lot in one go and then eventually will teeter out releasing acids.

The drive to release acids will also depend upon the pH of the water around them, but the speed of release cannot be so easily calculated.

Fish will soon show if the decrease is too much or too fast with signs of acidosis developing quite quickly.

ian

yeah , its weird .. from 7.2 to around 6.2 .. OK , great post Ian , acidosis !


anyway , you think I should forget these bits of bog , and release back to the wild bog ?

Nope.
They may actually be beneficial......your alkalinity in the tanks may have been not great in the first place, and these may somehow buffer the water a bit better.

Maybe an extra soaking and adding warm water to the soak may be a good idea.

ian

Ok , will soak em for a few more weeks .. and if my fish die when i put it in I will come for you









hohoh

once the pieces are in your tank and you're doing regular water changes the amount of tannins released will diminish over time, i'd still use them mate.

maggy88 wrote:

once the pieces are in your tank and you're doing regular water changes the amount of tannins released will diminish over time, i'd still use them mate.

im not concerned about tannins , it's the fact that these pieces of wood seem to have dramatically lowered the PH of my tap water over a short period of time while soaking in a tub out the back . Therefore I am unsure whether to add them to the tank as it has only held a stable PH of 7.2 .. and a stable PH is what we all want I think

yes but the tannins released from the wood will cause the drop in ph/increase in acidity.

maggy88 wrote:

yes but the tannins released from the wood will cause the drop in ph/increase in acidity.

ahh , knowledge is a wonderful thing !

the water now is quite clear that the bits are sitting in , it was fairly coloured a while back , so i thought the bulk of tannin had been let out . Obviously not though . Great advice , thanks ! I wont burn the stuff now .. cheers

i put pieces straight into my tank without soaking them and with regular water changes the ph eventually evened itself out with no ill effects. if you're still not sure you can always leave them to soak for another few weeks and test the water every so often to see if the reduction in ph is still as drastic as before. eventually it should be so minimal that you'll hardly see any difference.

wayne

bmcg38 wrote:

Hi all ,

The ph from the taps in the house is around 7.2 or so , same in the tank , which for the last few months has just bog wood and rocks in it . I have been soaking some new pieces of bog wood that i was given in a tub outside for the last few weeks . Tested the water this moring from the tub and the ph was around 6.2 .


anyone know why it would have dropped so much , as the tank has never changed with wood in it , large enough pieces too . Not sure whether I should use this wood now ..

Any suggestions or reasons for the drop would great ..

I'm no scientest, that's for sure but since you tested the for the pH difference in such a small volume of water(a tub) surely the wood would affect that volume of water greatly as you have just proved.
If you did the same experiment in 1000 liters of water the wood would most likely make little or no difference to the pH.

Dave

Can I ask what kind of rocks you have in the tank because it may be possible that the rocks are counteracting the bog-wood in the tank but since you have no rocks in the tub in the back...........
Note to all scientists out there. Don't lambaste me its just a humble layman's theory

Pat wrote:

Can I ask what kind of rocks you have in the tank because it may be possible that the rocks are counteracting the bog-wood in the tank but since you have no rocks in the tub in the back...........
Note to all scientists out there. Don't lambaste me its just a humble layman's theory

I'm a scientist, and that is a perfectly good piece of reasoning Pat.

Also, DJK is right......because pH is a concentration measurement.

if you put x amount of acid into 1 litres and then x amount into 1000 litres then the difference in pH would be pretty big.

pH is not a measurement of amount, it is a measurement of amount in a given volume.

ian

Perfecto Ian. Thanks for that.

Pat wrote:

Can I ask what kind of rocks you have in the tank because it may be possible that the rocks are counteracting the bog-wood in the tank but since you have no rocks in the tub in the back...........
Note to all scientists out there. Don't lambaste me its just a humble layman's theory

there are no rocks near this wood , and it hasnt seen a tank yet . I was just interested to find out how the ph would drop from 7.2 ( tank and tap PH ) to 6.2 in such a short spece of time .. anyway , the boffs have boffed and we seem to have an answer , cheers