My first Aquarium...

Thanks John, but I really don't want to be lauded, all I'm doing is making the mistakes slower! I do like to research and do any project as well as I can, but I must admit that the timeline is also in place due to me not getting my first fish until mid-November, so that helps me get over any occasional impatience I have!

Hopefully it'll all start to look a lot better by next week, as if I do get those plants then I'll hopefully get the time to get the whole set-up done (apart from the fish of course). I'm currently thinking of getting 3-4 Vallisneria for the back and maybe 3 Staurogyne repens in front of them.

Yet another question for everyone! As you can see from the pics, there's a plastic 'wood effect' trim along the bottom of the tank. This trim actually has a lip (about 1-2cm deep) that the tank is sitting on. Which means that the rest of the tank isn't supported by anything (it's not touching the cabinet at all); the tank is only support by this lip.

Before I add another 140L of water, I was wondering if this is a good idea, or should I remove the trim so that the tank base is fully supported by the cabinet? It won't look as nice obviously, but at least it'll be supported better.

What do you all think?

J.

Hmmm... I wish I'd thought of the aeroboard before I put the tank on the cabinet, and put substrate/water in it! It would be rather difficult to do now. I'll have a think about it, I much prefer the look of the trim, but I don't want to be inviting disaster. I'll also check with the guy I got the setup from, to see if he had it only on the lip, or if he had something under the bottom pane too. His tank was 6mm glass, mine is 10mm, so I reckon if he had it lip only for a few years, I should be fine to have it lip only too, if that makes sense?

Thanks...

J.

Is that a Juwel aquarium? Even if it isn't I'm sure it was designed with the lip in mind. I have a Juwel Vision180 and similarly the base glass doesn't touch the stand directly. It has had plenty of rocks, roots, sand and water in it over the years and no problems. In fact Juwel say NOT to use aeroboard on their tanks

It was a Juwel Aquarium, I got it 2nd hand for free. But then it got damaged (through my own fault, nothing to do with the trim), so I got a replacement one made by Seahorse Aquariums with the same dimensions so it would fit the Juwel lid / trim. The only different is the original Juwel Aquarium used 6mm glass, and this uses 10mm.

I contacted Seahorse and they recommended putting the Aquarium directly on the cabinet (not using the trim) but I can see where they're coming from, they're making sure they give the safest advice available for a tank they've made.

Anyone else I've checked with seems to think that it's fine with using the lip only, especially as it's now thicker (and stronger) glass. I reckoned all Juwel Aquariums are like this, but I didn't know if maybe they also have a 'support strut' on the bottom of the tank (similar to the one in the lid) which helps with support. The one I have doesn't have a bottom support strut, but as it's second hand I thought maybe there's a chance that it had one but it's gone now?

However, from what you've said, your Juwel didn't touch the bottom either, so it looks like I should be fine just using the lip...

J.

I have always had juwel tanks and they all have that same lip on them.It leaves a small gap maybe 3/4 between the base of the tank and the top of the cabinet. I think its a method of reducing heat loss, if the entire base is in contact with the cabinet then you would lose heat through convection (thats my theory anyway). It would be a lot less hastle now, to empty the tank and rectify the issue , than to be mopping up 200L of water later!! Don't worry it won't be the last time you will fill and empty a tank lol. I would go with what seahorse said, because if you use the lip and the tank breaks then you will have no come back with them.

Stuart.

The tank is still light enough that I can remove the trim without too much hassle (it's not attached or glued or anything like that, it's just sitting there, with the weight of the tank keeping it in place). So removing the trim would be pretty easy to too, if not as nice looking afterwards.

However, keeping the trim, but adding some aeroboard under the tank, would be a bigger job, and would involve emptying the tank etc. To be honest, I'm not really up for that, so I guess I either leave it as is, or remove the trim completely, one or the other...

J.

I must have missed this one.

Like others have said before, I am really impressed with your patience which might be one of the most important traits in a fishkeeper.

I'm struggeling wiht the lack of it all the time.

The tank, I'm sure will look great as it looks like you really will take your time to do it right.

Andreas

Thanks Andreas. I do have an idea of how I'd like the finshed tank to look, but as this is my first attempt, I'm sure I'll fall short.

All going well I'll get some plants tomorrow, and by tomorrow night I hope to have the tank full and the filter and heater going. Of course, that only leads to more questions!

I have approx 6 weeks to cycle the tank, and I want to do a fishless cycle. Another thread on this forum lead me to this article:

www.badmanstropicalfish.com/forum/index.php?topic=1023.0

It looks like a good step by step to follow. First question though, where do I get some Household Ammonia? Do places like B&Q have it, or do I have to go onlne? And if online is the only option, that's gonna take time, so I could use Fish Food instead, any particular brand / type recommended?

Next question, no matter what I use to start the cycle (and keep it going), is it ok to keep adding some Fish Food or Household Ammonia even after the cycle is complete and all I have is low Nitrates? I'm askng 'cos there's a chance I could get the cycle 'done' and still be a week or two away from adding fish so I presume I need to keep the cycle going? All the guides for cycling assume that you will add fish as soon as you get 0 Ammonia, 0 Nitrites and low Nitrates.

And finally, as I'm putting plants in, I'll need to feed them while I'm cycling the tank. I presume it's okay to add Plant food during a cycle?

Thanks...

J

Had fun in Seahorse today and spent some money!

Got suction cups for my heater and some more for the filter pipes as I needed some extra. Also got my Large White Resin Rock which they'd found in the back of the storeroom.

And finally I got some plants. Got 3 Vallisneria americana (natans), 2 Cryptocoryne lutea and 1 Cryptocoryne pontederifolia.

The Vallis are only small and need to grow a lot, while the others are closer to full size already (especially the lutea).

So anyhow, home I came, and a few educational You Tube videos later, I had the plants all planted. I'm sure I'm gonna lose some or most of them (especially the Vallis) as I really didn't know what I was doing, but time will tell.

With the plants in it was finally time to get the tank full, add the Rock and get the heater / filter all set up. And here's what I ended up with:





You can see the line where I stopped for dinner, and the 10L graduation marks on the right hand side!

After that I added some EasyLife Fluid Filter Medium, which of course made it all murky:





So that's how it looks at the moment. The water is slowly heating up, and the filter / pump is working well. I think maybe a little bit too fast though, I'm not certain, but there's a fair bit of water movement going on.

So, if you get a chance, please have a look at my previous message and put up some answers if you have the time! And also, will the inside of the glass get clean or do I need to clean away those 10L marks, and if so, how?

Thanks...

J.

Hi Jason the tank is looking well now good job. Ian is the man to ask about the exact do's and dont's with the cycling process. Plants as far as i know will help the cycling process so i can only see it helping you out. Don't worry if the plant loose their leaves or melt away a bit they will come back again once the acclimatise.

Stuart.

Thanks Stuart, hopefully the plants will do ok.

I gave the glass a bit of a clean, both inside and out, so it's looking a lot better now. And I found some Ammonia (the Kleen Off one) in our local EuroSpar, so that will come in very handy, I can start the cycle tomorrow!

Only concern right now is the heater. I had it set at 24 degrees but the thermometer in the tank is reading 27. Have set the heater to its lowest setting to see what happens. Part of me also wonders if the thermometer is too close to the lights, so I'll see if it's colder in the morning when the lights have been off for a few hours. At least I'm getting to test all of this without any fish in the tank...

J.

Its best to have two thermometers in your tank just incase, i have the glass thermo inside and the plastic strip that goes on the outside. My own heater i have set to 23 Deg's and the thermo's read 26 so the settings on them are not very accurate, always trust your thermo's .

Stuart.

Thanks Stuart... I think the heater is dodgy, I've opened a thread in the Heaters forum about it.

J.

Yeah as john suggested on the other post, lower the setting on the thermostat and see if the tank will level off at 26 Deg's . If the temp stays constant there's not much wrong with the thermostat , probably just not calibrated very well. This is the way i work with mine, i do have a spare heater in the tank just in case, the very last thing you want wrong in your tank is the heater. Its better to wed out these problems now before you have your fish in.

Stuart.

I know what you mean Stuart, the other problem I'd have (apart from just not trusting the heater) is that the lowest I seem to be able to get the water to is 25 degrees, and I'd like the option of maybe getting it a bit lower. Only a bit though, so I'll see! No fish coming in for 6 weeks, so I have plenty of time to sort this out...

J.

Nice set up, are you going to use fertiliser or such? have you decided what fish to go for in the end?

Thanks Phea2... I've got AquaBasis+ under the gravel, though just in the section that is planted (as it also helped me slope the substrate by only having the AquaBasis+ in one section). I'm also putting in some Ferropol and EasyCarbo every day for the plants.

I'm having a discussion elsewhere on the forum about what fish (you can see it here ), but I'm now leaning towards the following:

6 Sterbas Corys
8 Rummynose Tetras
8 Harlequin Rasboras
1 or 2 Kribensis

Not getting the first fish until the middle of November so I still have time to change my mind (and finish getting the filter cycled!).

J.

Thought it was time for an update!

After adding 8ml of Ammonia back on the 1st of October (approx. 5ppm in my tank) I've been testing Ammonia and Nitrites every day since. On Saturday morning the Ammonia was back down to 0.25ppm and the Nitrites were, as expected, off the chart high.

So I added another 6ml of Ammonia on Saturday morning, to get it back up to approx. 4ppm. And when I tested the tank yesterday evening it was back down to 0.5ppm, so that's good progress. I'd imagine it'll be down to 0.25 again today, and I'll add more Ammonia again. Keeping an eye on the Nitrites of course, and I'm gonna test for Nitrates as well. But it looks like the cycling is going well, it's just a case of how long it takes for the Nitrites to start to drop too.

I also added some wood that I've been soaking for the last week. Not 100% certain of the layout of the wood yet, I'll see how I feel about it. So here's how the tank looked last night:





One of the pieces of Wood I've added I've deliberately added to the back corner, and set it up in such a way that it could have the potential to be viewed as a 'Cave' if I ever go the route of breeding Kribs:





Anyhow, apart from that, my tank's getting dirty. I'm thinking this is Nitrates building up and obviously I'm not doing water changes during the cycle, but I just wanted to get a second opinion on it. I've got some brown and white marks on the leaves of my plants:





and lots of brown 'rusty' marks on the stone and the 'sub':









Is this anything for me to worry about, or is it just a sign of a Tank that hasn't been cleaned in two weeks?

Thanks...

J.

I'd say any reddish-brown marks are algae, the white ones possibly patches of bacteria. Once you stock it with any algae eating fish, they'll clear that up in no time

Thanks! The only issue is I wasn't planning to stock algae eating fish!

Another quick question. My Ammonia was pretty much zero this evening (after adding approx. 4ppm on Saturday) so I added another 4-5 ppm again. It looks like it's at the stage where my filter is converting that Ammonia to Nitrites in 1-2 days. That's fine, I'll just keep adding Ammonia each time it gets to Zero, while waiting for the Nitrites to also start dropping.

However, as I understand it, I could get to the stage where the Ammonia returns to zero in 12 hours. If I get to that stage, is it ok to only add Ammonia once a day, or do I need to add it twice a day? In other words, if I add Ammonia in the evening, and it's back to zero the next morning, can I leave it til the evening before adding more, or is that going to 'starve' the Bacteria living on the Ammonia? I don't have a lot of time in the mornings to test / add Ammonia, whereas I do have time each evening.

Thanks...

J.

stop adding ammonia and if nitrates are too high do a water change they wont come down on their own

will you post all the readings of the tank as is

that brown sh1t is from nitrates being to high, its algae, and you will need an algae eater at this stage to stop you freaking out, which you will when it really gets going

Jeff he is doing a fishless cycle with Ammonia and is still in the NitrIte stage...Correct me if im wrong but if he stops adding Ammonia his bacteria colony will die off and he will have to start all over again...

Ammonia and NitrIte are also forms of Nitrogen just like NitrAte and will cause Algae to grow...

Also one of the main reasons for doing a fishless cycle is because you dont have to do any water changes while cycling the tank....You do a large water change at the end of the cycle when the filter is established to reduce the NitrAtes in preperation for the addition of fish....

Jason you should really consider Algae eaters because no matter how well you maintain your tank and how strict you are with maintenance Algae will still grow....Its impossible to avoid...But what you can do is keep it to a bare minimum...What works for most people is regular weekly water changes (I personally swear by 50% weekly), A team of Algae Eaters, Sensible stocking levels, No overfeeding, Keeping live plants (plants outcompete algae for nutrients), and sensible lighting schedules (8 hours max is what i go by)

In my tanks Ive always used a combo of Algae Eaters because different Algae Eaters prefer different Algae types....My combo has always been Siamese Algae Eaters, Horned Nerite Snails and Ottocinclus catfish, These 3 have never failed me....But having said that if your tank maintenance is not up to scratch and regular you will be fighting a loosing battle.....NEVER just rely on Algae Eating fish to keep your tank Algae free alone...They are just a part of the battle against Algae......

Ideally when your tank is finally cycled you should try and always keep your NitrAtes below 10.....And The ONLY way to do that is with decent weekly water changes (I suggest 50% weekly).......Your fish will appreciate the large water changes too....Not only are you reducing the NitrAte quantity you are replacing vital minerals which they and also plants need to thrive...

Jason when the bacteria are converting your Ammonia to NitrItes in twelve hours just add the Ammonia ONCE daily........Be aware that if you add too much Ammonia you run the risk of killing the bacteria colony off....

Also the bacteria colony that is establishing itself will only die off if you stop feeding Ammonia for a few days...So once your giving it a daily dose your keeping it alive

Thanks for your replies!

Yep, as gunnered1972 says, I'm in the middle of a Fishless Cycle, I'm following the 'Add & Wait' method here . So far it seems to be going well enough.

My tests results last night, before I added more Ammonia, were

Ammonia: 0ppm
Nitrites: 5ppm+ (off the chart high)
Nitrates: 5ppm

After I added Ammonia it was back up to 4-5ppm, and I'll see this evening what it's down to.

So basically I'm now at the stage of adding Ammonia to keep the Ammonia eating bacteria happy while waiting for the Nitrite eating bacteria to kick in enough to reduce my Nitrites back to 0. According to the method I'm following, once you can add approx. 4-5ppm of Ammonia and have both Ammonia and Nitrites back to 0 within 12 hours, your tank is cycled, and then you do a big water change (75%-90%) to drop the Nitrates and you're ready to add fish.

I started the method on Oct. 1st, the Ammonia first reached 0 on Sat (12th) and then again on Mon (14th), so it's going well. I'd hope for the Nitrites to start hitting 0 around the end of the month. I'm not getting fish until mid-November.

Speaking of which, I'll look into your recommendations regarding Siamese Algae Eaters, Snails and Ottos, thanks! I don't plan to overstock at all, I'll try my best not to overfeed and I do have live plants so that should help too.

And in another bit of good news, I've noticed that some of my Vallis that I planted have definitely grown, so that's excellent, I was assuming they'd all die (I've never been good with plants!)

So thanks for confirming that it'll be ok to only add Ammonia once a day, I would have hated to have gotten this far and then starved the Ammonia eating bacteria.

A final quick question! You mention 8 hours max. for lights, do you have live plants in your tank as well? As I understand it, it's about finding a balance for the plants / algae? I'm currently doing 10 hours for lights, but I'd be happy to reduce it as long as it's not detrimental to the plants?

Thanks...

J.

I have kept live plants for a number of years under 8 hours of light..

8 hours is more than enough for growing live plants Jason

Also in my experience it seems to be just about the right duration to keep algae from taking hold...

Algae basically requires Nutrients or Light or both to grow (Oh and water but ya cant take that away )...So if you starve it of its favourite nutrient (i.e. NitrAtes) and keep it away from light it makes sense that you will inhibit its growth...

By the way if the Algae on your tank ornaments (rock etc) is annoying you take them out of the tank and let them dry in the sun for a couple of days (on a window sill maybe) The Algae will just die off and the sun will bleach the item allowing your ornaments/rocks to go back to their original colour...

Thanks for that, I've changed my lights timer to 8 hours, so that should help. Also had a look at Otos and Horned Nerite Snails and I reckon I'll give them a go after I've my other fish stocked. The Otos look smaller and add less 'stock' to the tank than the SAE though from what I've read they prefer a more mature tank, so I'll look at getting some later. The snails look fine apart from their tendency to lay eggs!

With Rummynose Tetras, Harlequin Rasboras, Sternas Corys and now Otos and Snails, the tank will have a good bit going on. I'm still undecided about the Kribs!

J.

You could have an angel they look good, use all levels of the tank and mine at least is very peaceful.

How did I know you'd find the ottos need a mature tank thing.

Just a quick update...

I'm now three weeks into the Fishless cycle, and I'm at the stage where I add Ammonia every evening and by the next evening it's back down to 0. Still waiting for the Nitrites to reduce, they're still off the chart high. Have just over 3 weeks left before I plan to buy fish, so hopefully the Nitrites will drop before then.

And then it'll be time for a big water change, as the tank is looking dirtier by the day!

Paid a visit to Seahorse yesterday and they had Rummynose Tetras, Harlequin Rasboras and Sterbas Corys in stock. Really impressed with all three of them, nice and colourful and different from each other too. So I'm looking forward to getting them for my tank. What happens after that (Kribs or Otos or Snails etc.) I haven't decided yet!

J.

Another little update...

As mentioned on the Water & Health forum, I got some worrying results a couple of nights ago, the Ammonia levels had stopped dropping in my Fishless Cycle and the pH had dropped to about 6! From what I've been told and read online, it looks like I got a pH crash, and the drop in pH has reduced the capactity of the bacteria to convert Ammonia.

So, I found some advice online about Fishless Cycles and what to do if you get a pH crash and I did a 40% water change last night, which apparently will help balance the pH again and increase the buffers etc. It was my first ever water change and I have to admit it was a lot easier than I realised, using the gravel cleaner. I would have done a 50% one, but I literally didn't have enough containers to fill with water and add Easy Life Filter Medium to, especially as I had to leave the containers for a couple of hours to let the Filter Medium do its job before adding the water to the tank.

I took advantage of doing the water change to suck up some of the algae and general dirt in the tank as well.

After doing the water change I added 2ml of Ammonia (approx. 1ppm) just to give the bacteria something to work on without overloading them, as I don't want them to 'starve'.

I won't know until I get home this evening how it's all going, but hopefully I'll see the Ammonia gone, Nitrites / Nitrates reduced and pH a bit more stable. Then it's back to getting the cycle finished, still waiting for that Nitrite to hit 0 and then I'll know I'm almost there. Have less than 3 weeks to go before I plan to get fish, so I'm beginning to get a little nervous about the timeline.

As an aside, I realised last night that probably the easiest way of doing water changes, going forward, is to just get more buckets from B&Q. They have 14lt buckets that have measurements inside them, and only cost approx. €1.20. Which means I could buy 5 for €6, which would allow me to do a 50% water change; I could fill the buckets, leave them over night with Filter Medium and then do the water change the next day. And even better, the buckets will stack inside each other and take up very little room. A lot easier, and cheaper, than looking for a couple of large 20-30L containers!

J.