Most of the fishes dead

Started only 3 weeks ago ( my first ever contact with fish world), but from my 12 fishes only 2 are left.
I had Beta, 6 Platy swordtails and 5 Neon tetra. Beta was dead in next day, then my fishes got ich (already cured by increased temps). In fairness Beta was pretty slow already when I bought it, but I suspect it was half dead already.
Right after that one of swordtails became aggressive and started to kill other fishes.
Now I have 2 left, but soon we are getting aquarium plants and couple Cory cats and Guppies.
Hope next bunch of fishes will live long and happy.

I was doing everything exactly as guys from seahorseaquariums told to me. And after checking numerous posts by goggling I see that I did everything right. It might be just one aggressive swordtail. I saw myself how it was attacking 2 neon tetras by smashing into thems side and then they just swim up belly up. My girlfriend said she saw how one of swordtails attacking other swordtail. So I assume it is just one swordtail who feels as piranha in swortails body.

So I have 2 swordtails left now, is it worth keeping them or just get rid of them? I afraid that after I add Cory cats and Gypies - fight will start again.

(black humor) - And you know what is funny? I was afraid, that Betta will kill them all, but Betta was dead first ..

As for aquarium itself - I'm using internal
aqua one (max 450l h) filter,
aqua one 100w heater,
ProSilent 400 air pump
Organic Aqua,
API Stress Zyme+
API Stress Coat+.
Food - JBL Novo Color
PPM 380 (0.7 conversation)
Temp - stable 25

paulv wrote:

Hi Arvis welcome to the forum. Before any of us can help you as to why your fish died you need to do a water test, so maybe you should buy a simple water test kit. Im wondering why your using stress zyme along with organic aqua. Dont by shy to ask any questions here,

paulv - if I understand correctly water test kits doesnt work if I'm using organic aqua. And I'm using stressZyme only because I was told to

Your correct about organic aqua giving misleading readings on any water tests. Im running a large tank on organic aqua and its being very successful for me. im at a loss as to why your first fish died except maybe they were sick when you got them and the stress of moving was too much for them. Ive seen how male betta's ard shipped and im amazed any survive. Any male live bearers like swordtails, mollys, guppys are aggressive and will often harass other fish to death, especially fish of similar size and shape. All I can say is to try again and follow the organic aqua directions especially with lots of air and an open top tank.

Fishes got ich 3 days after I introduced them to tank, so they might be weak for stressfull situations as you mentioned.
I'm pumping 400l/h air in 65l aquarium and the top 2 piece glass with a small holes. Air is escaping pretty well. Cheers for info about live bearers. As well i think, that all of my fishes were female except Beta. Could that be an issue if all swordtails are female? Somewhere I read that they should be kept 2:1 female:male ratio.
Anyway, I'm done with swordtails and a nice lady I know promised me couple guppies from her own aquarium for free, so I will be fool if i'll reject her offer.

BTW - I'm waiting for other friend to donate couple plants to me, so hopefully my aquarium experience wont that expensive.

paulv wrote:

All I can say is to try again and follow the organic aqua directions especially with lots of air and an open top tank.

I was wondering how long is ok having the lids open.

You have lots of air going in hopfully creating some surface disturbance. Organic aqua produces lots of nitrogen/nitrous gas thats needs to escape. The expert in seahorse told me an open lid atleast 12 hours a day. Ive an open sump in my tank so the gas escapes from there. Take as many free fish and plants you can just be aware of introducing pests like snails and diseases to your tank. I dont know of overly agressive female swordtails, when I breed them it was the males that fought especially the dominant male. Try keeping mollies, my fav of the live bearers.

But I think, that chances of introducing pests to my aquarium are equal whatever I take plants/fishes from shops or experienced hobbyists. Maybe I'm wrong

A questions, with organic aqua, if I use it, i understand, that I can change water whenever I want, but they say I can change once a month. But how about filter? When putting in that bacteria sachets, most of them will get into filter. When i lost my Neon tetra, I found them in filter, but took only them out without cleaning it, because I afraid to wash out bacteria.

About the OA, im assuming when you first set up your tank that you used OA start up kit suitable for 100l tank. Every 7 days added the health suplement. Then once a month change 25% of water, fill up with tap water, no conditioner, and add OA monthly maintenance kit. Only other filtering you need is sponge filter to trap any large pieces of crap, uneaten food. No need for any other bacterial additions like stress zyme, its all in the OA. This is the routine ive followed last 3 years in my tank and its working fine.
Hope you blocked where the tetras got into your filter, maybe up the intake pipe, a piece of sponge fixed over it works. Once a fish dies in a tank it stats to release toxins so its important to remove dead or sick fish asap. In your intro you said you have friends with large established tanks, maybe they can visit you and help with the basics. As for introducing diseases into your tank they can come from any source, lfs, fellow keepers or bought in food. You have a chance to start you tank over from new, if OA is not followed carefully it wont work and your better off using more traditional bio cycling method to mature tank.

Hi and sorry to hear of your losses.
I've used organic aqua with great success which is why the Lfs gave you all the other treatments. Maybe they reacted badly with the oa. You don't need a filter unless using it for water movement so at time of each water change you should wash it in tap water.
You seem to be doing everything else right with the air pump etc. I had a lid but still got plenty of circulation as not tight fitting so loads of air escape

I ment to say, whether you do a weekly or monthly water change you should also wash the filter sponge using the tank water you just took from the tank, that way you wont kill any good bacteria in your sponges.

Thank you so much guys, everything is much simpler now. So I'll keep using only OA and do once a week 25-30% water change and will wash filter sponge with the water I remove from tank.
With air escaping, I thing air is escaping well. I can't remove top lid as air bubbles are creating a lot of movement and water will be all over the place including light.

All this morning I spent on researching Cory cats. Looks like it is not very good choice for beginner as looks like a lot of people having trouble with them.

Planted tank, would that be a good idea to plant and straight away introduce new fish? Or better to wait couple weeks after planting? I want to have Baby tears carpet and then make U shape background.

I had loss of fishes, but that makes me even more interested in aquariums. Hopefully I wont buy bigger tank

I wouldn't take too much notice of the so-called "science" supplied with OA......whether or not the product works is one thing, but the marketing and science quoted is rubbish.

There are a few red-herrings and pseudo-scientific bits quoted by OA.....we don't want them perpetuated as if fact as that makes it so difficult in explaining how OA and other products/systems work

On this particular case of lost fish, I have 2 thoughts that jump to mind:
the tank was not mature enough for fish, and (this is a BIG one)....I see a mention somewhere that (quote) “And after checking numerous posts by goggling I see that I did everything right.”
Unfortunately, the problem there is that wrong posts must have been pulled up on the google results as a Siamese Fighter is not something that is correctly mixed with swordtails etc due to conflicting water requirements and fish behaviour conflicts.
Siamese Fighters should only be cautiously housed with Corydoras catfish as many Corys cannot tolerate the high temperature expected by a Siamese Fighter.

So.....I think that the wrong advise was followed.

ian

I have to agree with ian that the science offered up by OA is flakey at best but all I know is it works for me and for many others, but for some reasons has caused total tank lose for others. I think arvis already had the fish mix, betta and swordtails before joining this forum. Its a sharp learning curve for sure. If you do go down the OA route then only change water once a month.

I suspected the googling for info came before joining the forum here as I have not seen such a mix being recommended on this forum.

The danger of "googling" for info for someone starting out is in knowing which bit of info is correct and which is rubbish.

ian

yea, about googling, I have noticed, that have to be careful what to take serious and what not. I see that you guys have mixed opinions as well.

So looks like I have to get rid of my 2 swordtails. Today I introduced 2 brush nose plecos and 1 4 cm shrimp. In shop they said it is ''fun shrimp'' , but I cant find such a thing in google. They said it can live alone.
So, swordtails starts the old story again - attacking shrimps antennas. Looks like plecos are safe as they are much quicker then swordtails.

Your suggestions? I really think, that cause of my dead fishes are swordtails.

Ive kept swordtails in the past and even though they will chase and harass other similar shaped fish ive never come across them killing entire tank of fish, bristle nose pleco are fine but can get agressive to eachother as adults. Google for sure before you buy but also chat to the lads/ladys here too. Is it possible your shrimp were called fan shrimp, the name covers wide range of shrimp, they are great to clean up any left over food.

Thank you paulv, it is called Fan Shrimp indeed! Found some info on them. Very shy lad. Biggest creature in my aquarium, but very careful
Yesterday I introduced to tank Pogostemon helferi, anubia barteri, corksrew val and some unknown plant to me. They has 36w T8 lighting and no extra co2. We will see how they grow.
At the moment one of the plecos is super active while other is very slow, possibly transfer shock.
Swordtails looks fine atm, attacked shrimp couple times, one of the plecos, but now looks kind of calmed down. Yesterday I didn't feed them, so today I see swordtails copying plecos - cleaning gravel and sand. So funny, never thought swordatils could take sand in mouth and after spit it out Same around bogwood.

So, atm I have 2 swordtails, fan shrimp, 2 plecos. I'm planning to add 10 guppies. Can I add extra cherry shrimps and couple corycats? Or it will be overcrowded? Initial plan was to get corycats instead of plecos, but we had a good deal on plecos, so we got 2.

just to confuse you further so anyone else please jump in but during the water change if using OA then wash the sponges in tap water to kill off the bacteria as not required

when you do get plants give me a shout as have some OA plant food that you can have. its in my shed somewhere

sincgar wrote:

just to confuse you further so anyone else please jump in but during the water change if using OA then wash the sponges in tap water to kill off the bacteria as not required

your right that you can wash sponges in tap water if your using OA at monthly maintaince, but im not sure arvis is totally using OA or a mix of both so I erred on the side of caution.

Arvis if your adding fish its best to feed your tank 20/30mins before adding new fish so existing fish are full and wont hassle the new fish so much. I sugest you wait 2 weeks and see how youf new fish get on before adding more. Id be cautions with the shrimp unless you provide lots of hiding places for them even plecos will eat shrimp.

Had a few fan shrimp (also known as bamboo shrimp amongst other names) in my sons tank a while ago, they like to be able to get into the "flow" of the water so they can feed more efficiently....

Provide lots of hiding places or they will become a little nervous and stressed
keep an eye on theur feeding habbits..... they can be very interesting

I quite enjoyed them, would almost get more now that there is nothing in the tank that will eat them (i didnt do my homework properly when i first got them and a catfish had a great meal when they shed)

Neil

Funny news - My 3 years old looking at pleco sucking glass says - he is kissing glass, he thinks it is his girlfriend
Bad news - one of the plecos is dead. He was very inactive yesterday in bag and after introducing. This morning he was still alive, but now he is gone. Other, more active pleco is still going around as hyperactive kid.

Shrimp, I'm not really worried, that he can become food, he is 2x the size of swordtails and 2x the size of pleco. As well - pleco is bristllenose or brushnose, different peopple call it differently, and it is the peaceful fish.

OA - it is recommended to was sponge under tap water if changing once a month, my issue is that I wanted to change more frequent as water looks a bit dull. But this morning I found out why it is dull. Flow in my tank is so big, that everything from gravel is swimming up. I switched off air pump for night and fully submerged my filter, so water doesn't hits the water and guess what - water perfectly clean.
The only thing now is - is there enough oxygen for fishes?! Until now none of them has been breathing from the surface, so I assume it is enough.

Sincar, yesterday I planted couple of plants, so I would definitely be up for some food I'm based in Naas, co.Kildare, so if you aren't too far away, I can collect it.

paulv, in a weeks time I'll have to take 10 guppies, hope anything goes well.

And if my fishes will survive other 2-3 weeks, then I would like to add corycats if possible. There I need your opinion guys.

Keep an eye on the swordtails once you add thd guppys, from my experience with mixing guppies with mollies its the guppies the are aggressors.try to get a mix of 4 females to 1 male. Be prepared for lots of babies.

I would review the water quality, and (maybe mre specifically) review your water against the water from where you are getting fish.

Maybe the method of transfering fish between different waters is the problem.

ian

I would love to test, but Organic Aqua will show false readings. PH is stable 7.7, Total ppm 313. have to find out cheap way to measure water hardness. PH from the tap is 7.4. If using Britta filter I can drop it down to 6.7, but Britta adds extra 130 ppm for some reason.

I don't want to go down the complicated road of saying that it is nonsense about the claims OA makes test results false.....that's too much like the "Emperors New Clothes" for me and there is little to back such myths

Now.....it is true that certain treatments may make certain tests invalid, but they can be explained and the solution would be to use a different test system.

If you look at Organic Aquas adverts, the manufacturers even use statements from customers about how OA produces good/perfect/acceptable etc test results.

That is something which I have mentioned previously on many occasions (and to the distributor here).....OA needs to get its marketing act together if it wants be have wider appeal.

Anyway, I would start to look at shock caused by the transfer if the water is testing as "good".
Maybe use the trickle acclimatisation method to reduce losses.

ian

Which system would you recommend for water testing? The guy who made Organic Aqua seems to be working in seahorseaquariums. And they are saying - no way.
Looks like have to say - there is always a way

How water shock normally shows on fishes? My first ones died approximately 8-20 days after.
Yea, last fish - pleco died next day after introducing to tank, but the second pleco is hyperactive.

Excellent point Ian regarding transfering newly bought fish to youf tank. If I can sugest this method. Float the new fish bags in your tank and add 1 cup of tank water into the bag, repeat this every 20 mins until you've doubled the volumn of water in the bag, this way the new fish will slowely acclimatise to your tank wster and temp, then release the new fish into your tank feeding your exciting fish at same time. I find this works well for me, even transfering large adult fish.
The old debate about OA continues, my opion is, if its working why fix or replace it.

Arvis its hard to understand whats goin on with your tank. Did one of the new pleco's just die ?. Your in naas I think, im close to u in rathcoole, if you like I can drop in and chat about your tank. Pm me.

Okey, the way how I did this last time - I put the bag in water, added just a bit of water every 10 min. But I was doing it over hour for plecos and 1.5h for shrimp. I ended up with doubled or even tripled water. So it is nearly same as paulv suggests. What I didn't do - i didn't feed after introducing them. The active pleco straight away started cleaning job, other one was cleaning just a little bit.
For first batch of fishes I put bag's in water, added 20% to bags waters amount and after 4 changes put them in aquarium. Basically the same.