Marine set up converting to Tropicals

I was wondering if I could use any of the marine set up I have for tropical set up.

for example live rock? can it live in freshwater?. Also live sand , can it be used for fresh water.

I currently have an eheim extertnal filter and mce 300 skimmer. Skimmer probably won't be useful, so an internal filter will be required.

I'm planning to stock some gouramis, sail fin molly and angels.

Cheers

Tunes145

Don't believe the LR or sand could be used in a FW setup. The bacteria etc would probably die and cause all sorts of issues with the system. Probably better off with new sand and rock - might even help to finance the move
No need for a new internal as the old external should be fine but would need a thorough clean out and maybe new sponges/bio ball/noodles depending on the condition. the whole lot would need to be cycled again to build up the FW bacteria for converting the ammonia etc before adding any fish. again it depends on the tank volume - is the external big enough for your tank as it was only providing additonal fitration to the LR in the marne setup - in the FW it will be the primary mechanism for fitering the water

Don't think the skimmer can be used

Hope that helps and might be a lot more experienced people on here who could explain better

although i have zero exp in that field, i'd be inclined to say they could be used in a fresh water set up but not yours, if you had good flow over the rock surely bacteria would grow in/on it, the sand would be just sand (is coral also live sand? i had this in my tank for years), although it would more than likely screw up your ph. correct me if i'm wrong folks

Thanks for the replies.

Well, selling the live rock could actually finance for the tropicals.

I was inclined to think the same, sand would be just sand. Though the sand is aragonite fiji pink but as mentioned it could higher the phd.

I don't like gravel at all.

I like Marines, but I can't afford it any more. Out of job in these days.

Hi Tunes. Im afraid you will have to start from scratch. Putting LR in a freshwater setup will cause a huge die off and poison the tank. You can certainly use your external filter but you will need to sterilize it first. A good scrub with hot water should do the trick. Beware of any parts that may be a little worse for wear after being run in a saltwater setup. Unfortunately your skimmer will be useless in a freshwater tropical setup. It would be best to remove the substrate and use an inert sand as it would buffer th ph and most likely it is live now so a die off would occur on that too. Selling off the LR and skimmer would go a long way toward funding the switch though, so its not all bad. If the stuff is in good nick and you are willing to take a hit then you should move it fairly quickly.

Jay

how much extra would it cost to run a marine? i understand it being expensive to put together, but wat extra costs is there? is the salt mix expensive?

jay, would the die off not help cycle the filter for use wit fresh water?

dar wrote:

how much extra would it cost to run a marine? i understand it being expensive to put together, but wat extra costs is there? is the salt mix expensive?

That depends entirely on what type of marine system you wish to maintain. The initial hit is pretty hard for sure. You then have issues of power bills etc. Salt mixes are pricey enough, how pricey depends on the tank size. Good quality ready mixed saltwater is usually available in most good lfs, however, most reef keepers mix their own so they can be sure of using the one mix to maintain levels of certain trace elements etc. If you are considering going salty my advice would be to read and research as much as possible before commiting to it as mistakes are costly, especially in terms of livestock. It is this which drives most new saltwater aquarists out at the early stages.

Jay

dar wrote:

jay, would the die off not help cycle the filter for use wit fresh water?

Live rock has organisms living both on and within it. It acts as the biological filtration within a closed marine system. Placing it in a freshwater setup is will cause a die off and release all sorts of nasties over a prolonged period of time. That said, it will eventually become "dead rock" and could mabey be used in an african cichlid setup or some other system that would require ph buffering. It certainly wont do the job in a FW setup that it does in a marine one though. The amount of time that it would take to "uncure" the LR would depend on many factors and would stink out the room the tank is in until it is "dead". Bit of a waste of some very expensive rock and meanwhile your waiting a long time for it to become useable again.

Jay

@ Tunes. A thought. Why not contact your lfs and see if they might trade you some inert rock, sand and some other freshie essentials for your live rock? Worth a shot.

Jay

how much extra would it cost to run a marine? i understand it being expensive to put together, but wat extra costs is there? is the salt mix expensive?

to give you an idea on cost dar i just converted my 100l from tangs to marine..
heres the break down of what i spent..
Live rock..11KG €110 in Aquatic Village
single t8 marine white €20
2 korilia power heads i got 2nd hand off this forum for €40
sand i used from my tanganyikan tank
salt cost me €28 but that'll only do 120l so will need more
and thats it really..

livestock is all from AQ
2 clownfish €20
5 blue leg hermits €30
4 cleaner shrimp €60
1 fire shrimp €20
2 damsels €16

so in total around €350
well worth it,best tank iv'e ever had and its only getting started

@Viperbot,

Thanks for the advise. LFS could be an idea and may be get something for free in exchange(or sell here the rest, skimmer etc...).

LR definetly no no then. I still want to keep sand. I guess it needs good wash out?.

As also mentioned, mistakes cost dearly and yes I did a few mistakes, which is why I am considering for cheap FW way.

Although, I read and researched well. I think my biggest mistake was switching the food.I had NLS pellets (hoping it would work) which were refused by all except pacific sail fin tang and yellow goby.

I tried all the methods, gradual mix.. not feeding for a day, etc..

Unfortunetly, all my efforts didn't work and lost a number of fish. I still have the sailfin tang and the goby. They are fine.

So when FW set up action, they'll go with the LR.

@dar

Well, the on going expense it not too much. Salt mix is the most expensive, and after that food.

Also a bit extra electricity consumption. My cost was on the fish that died off, they are expensive. I don't want to replace as I can't afford huge bill and learn through mistakes. Basically, going back my comfort zone in FW.

peter wrote:

salt cost me €28 but that'll only do 120l

serious? wow, and wat sort of water change and frequency would be needed on your set up, would that salt do you a month? my apologies for drifting of topic a wee bit

the only reason it was so expensive was cause it was the smallest packet in the shop. buckets of salt can be bought and it works out a lot cheaper then..
looking at changing 15/20 every weekend for know and keep an eye on the water parameters and then change that to every fortnight when the systems developed.

Tunes145 wrote:

@Viperbot,

Thanks for the advise. LFS could be an idea and may be get something for free in exchange(or sell here the rest, skimmer etc...).

LR definetly no no then. I still want to keep sand. I guess it needs good wash out?.

As also mentioned, mistakes cost dearly and yes I did a few mistakes, which is why I am considering for cheap FW way.

Although, I read and researched well. I think my biggest mistake was switching the food.I had NLS pellets (hoping it would work) which were refused by all except pacific sail fin tang and yellow goby.

I tried all the methods, gradual mix.. not feeding for a day, etc..

Unfortunetly, all my efforts didn't work and lost a number of fish. I still have the sailfin tang and the goby. They are fine.

So when FW set up action, they'll go with the LR.

Were the fish that died eating anything before you tried the NLS or were they refusing food altogether? I ask because if they were refusing food entirley, no matter what you offered them, then something else was/is wrong. What fish did you loose, and how quickly did they die? Did they just waste away or did they die suddenly? The Sailfin Tangs are tough enough in established systems and the gobys are hardy too.

Jay

Jay

Sorry to hear about your die off there, Viper. On the subject of your sand in a freshy setup. I presume this will raise your ph, which is not suitable for the Angels you said you want to keep. A better option would be play sand. It's very cheap and inert. You could even make a few squids by selling the live sand for that?
L

Xaribdis wrote:

Sorry to hear about your die off there, Viper. On the subject of your sand in a freshy setup. I presume this will raise your ph, which is not suitable for the Angels you said you want to keep. A better option would be play sand. It's very cheap and inert. You could even make a few squids by selling the live sand for that?
L

No die off at my end Lorcan, at least not yet . I was harping on about the sudden crash of life on the posters LR if he/she were to use it in a FW system. I agree that the poster should also remove the sand. @ Tunes, a bag of inert playsand will cost next to nothing and the effect is great.

Jay

Sorry, meant Tunes in his Marine tank. My bad.
L

jesus my biological marine clock is ticking big time

dar wrote:

jesus my biological marine clock is ticking big time

For information on starting out on marine fishkeeping I highly recommend The Conscientious Marine Aquarist 2nd Edition by Robert M Fenner. This is a fantastic book for researching saltwater setups, fish and inverts and gives detailed information on their needs and what to do when things go wrong. Its a bit pricey, in and around 90-100 Euros but shop around or go online. The soft back edition will be cheaper. Read up as much as you can and have a plan and stick to it. There are some great sites dedicated to marines so its worth checking them out too.

Jay

@Viperbot

Yes, they were eating normally. I gave them Gamma brine shrimp + garlic. They didn't die straight off the purchase. They lived around 3 months. Since September I have been trying to use NLS.

I read an article that brineshrimp does not have much of nutritional value in the long term and the fish can develop diseases. So I ended up researching and come across NLS. Believing the hype and thought it will be great for the fish.
Fish died so far are: Yellow long nose butterfly, purple fish(similar to firefish, purple version), 1 of 2 Clowns and yellow eye(Kori)tang.

ok, I will go with play sand. The idea of getting the live sand out of aqaurium bit daunting. I better check my tools and spades:)

@Xaribdis.
Thanks for the condolonces. It is sad when you find fish dead on the bottom next morning when you wake up.

Ok, it seems maybe the diet was an issue there. The Butterlfy and the Tang were herbivores and grazers that require lots of veg in their diet, supplemented with meaty foods. They would have spent a lot of time picking over the live rock looking for diatoms and other greens. The Kole Tang in particular would certainly have needed a veggie based diet. The Longnosed Butterfly is one of the easier to keep Butterfly fish (if there is such a thing ) and would have fared a little better on the diet you provided. Im guessing the Tang went first? Either way, its a shame you lost them as they are both beautiful fish. Some fish simply wont take new foods, especially if they are unwell. NLS, is a much hyped brand, and for good reason. If fed exclusively, it is marvellous stuff that promotes great colour and form. I use the large pellet variety to supplement my Dogface Puffer and Niger Trigger who like it almost as much as the muscles and prawns. I would say this though, try sticking it out. You still have the tank set up and your remaining fish are doing well. They have taken to the new food and if all else is well why not try again with some tough tankmates? Marine fishkeeping is a hobby that I find is a lot less forgiving than freshwater but far more rewarding.

Jay

Viperbot wrote:

Ok, it seems maybe the diet was an issue there. The Butterlfy and the Tang were herbivores and grazers that require lots of veg in their diet, supplemented with meaty foods. They would have spent a lot of time picking over the live rock looking for diatoms and other greens. The Kole Tang in particular would certainly have needed a veggie based diet. The Longnosed Butterfly is one of the easier to keep Butterfly fish (if there is such a thing ) and would have fared a little better on the diet you provided. Im guessing the Tang went first? Either way, its a shame you lost them as they are both beautiful fish. Some fish simply wont take new foods, especially if they are unwell. NLS, is a much hyped brand, and for good reason. If fed exclusively, it is marvellous stuff that promotes great colour and form. I use the large pellet variety to supplement my Dogface Puffer and Niger Trigger who like it almost as much as the muscles and prawns. I would say this though, try sticking it out. You still have the tank set up and your remaining fish are doing well. They have taken to the new food and if all else is well why not try again with some tough tankmates? Marine fishkeeping is a hobby that I find is a lot less forgiving than freshwater but far more rewarding.

Jay

@Viperbot
Thanks for that. you guessed right. First, I found kori tang lying dead and next day I didn't see butterfly until I have to look at the back find the yellow thing lying. I am glad to hear that NLS is working for you. I suspect that if the fish at LFS feeding tham frozen food. They don't recognize pellet food?. Then again sailfin tang adapted itself. It's hard to explain why it works and why it doesn't.
I have to admit, it is very rewarding and keeping wilder and exotic animals are much more fascinating. I don't want to spend another a big sum of replacing all these fish. I will see how the tang and goby will do abit while. I had plans for later to actually upgrade fish only tank from current 180 liter(awquamarine 900)tank with corals to red sea max 250 next year(subject of me finidng a good paying job). If though the rest dies that's definetly back for me to easy fw fish gouramis and mollies.

One thing is for sure, its difficult to stay in the salty game when things go wrong and work is scarce. Those Red Sea Max tanks are fantastic but pricey so I understand the reluctance to dive in. Whatever you decide, good luck with it and dont hesitate to ask if you have an issue.

Jay