Retirement and forum shutdown (17 Jan 2022)

Hi,

John Howell who has managed the forum for years is getting on and wishes to retire from the role of managing it.
Over the years, he has managed the forum through good days and bad days and he has always been fair.
He has managed to bring his passion for fish keeping to the forum and keep it going for so long.

I wish to thank John for his hard work in keeping the forum going.

With John wishing to "retire" from the role of managing the forum and the forum receiving very little traffic, I think we must agree that forum has come to a natural conclusion and it's time to put it to rest.

I am proposing that the forum be made read-only from March 2022 onwards and that no new users or content be created. The website is still registered for several more years, so the content will still be accessible but no new topics or replies will be allowed.

If there is interest from the ITFS or other fish keeping clubs, we may redirect traffic to them or to a Facebook group but will not actively manage it.

I'd like to thank everyone over the years who helped with forum, posted a reply, started a new topic, ask a question and helped a newbie in fish keeping. And thank you to the sponsors who helped us along the away. Hopefully it made the hobby stronger.

I'd especially like to thank John Howell and Valerie Rousseau for all of their contributions, without them the forum would have never been has successful.

Thank you
Darragh Sherwin

Eggs falling out of nest

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22 Oct 2009 12:29 #1 by Jaffacakehead (John McPartland)

Eggs falling out of nest was created by Jaffacakehead (John McPartland)

I bred my blue veiltail betta with a beautiful white female with iridescent fins. I've removed the female and the male has been left to care for the eggs. For some reason the eggs keep falling out of the nest and he's struggling to keep them in the bubbles.
There's about sixty eggs on the bottom at any time. The male is picking up four or five at a time and spitting them into the bubbles and they're just falling back out again.
The nest is under half a polystyrene cup.
He's an experienced male as this is his third spawning and everything was fine before.

Is this something to do with the humidity of the air above the waterline or something?

Can these eggs hatch on the bottom of the tank and will the fry drown?

Maybe Spookymuffin or someone else with experience of breeding bettas could help.

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22 Oct 2009 12:38 #2 by gardoyle27 (Gareth Doyle)

Replied by gardoyle27 (Gareth Doyle) on topic Re:Eggs falling out of nest

hey, if he can't keep up with the eggs it may be because the water level is too high, drop the water down to 5-6 inches in the tank, i bred betta's a few years ago and this worked well for me, the eggs do fall out of the bubbles but it the male has to go up and down a deeper amount of water all the time he is not going to be able to keep up with the eggs falling.

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22 Oct 2009 13:24 #3 by Jaffacakehead (John McPartland)

Replied by Jaffacakehead (John McPartland) on topic Re:Eggs falling out of nest

The water level is already only six inches. Normally the male is kept busy spitting eggs and then fry back into the nest but this is just weird as they're not sticking at all.

I have a tight lid on the tank but its quite cold in the room and you can see steam above the water. That's why I thought it might have something to do with humidity or air temperature or something.

I've heard of successfull hatchings without a nest at all so maybe they'll be ok.

They should be due to start hatching tonight or tomorrow anyway so I'll wait and see what happens.

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23 Oct 2009 00:41 #4 by platty252 (Darren Dalton)

Replied by platty252 (Darren Dalton) on topic Re:Eggs falling out of nest

The labyrinth organ dosent develop for a couple of weeks after they hatch.
I think if they are fertile they will hatch.
Just out of curiosity what temperature are they at?

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23 Oct 2009 08:27 - 23 Oct 2009 08:29 #5 by SpookyMuffin (Debbie Behan)

Replied by SpookyMuffin (Debbie Behan) on topic Re:Eggs falling out of nest

He might be having trouble making enough mucus to keep the nest sticky, how long ago was he last bred from and what age is he?
When breeding bettas the temperature above the water should always be as close to the water temperature as possible. Not just because the babies will need it in a few weeks when they start breathing from the surface but also because it could lead to greater swings in the temp of the water (even if you have a great heater) which could shock and kill your fry. I'm not sure if this would effect the bubblenest in any way but it's certainly a possibility.

The eggs may hatch but you'll likely lose most of them. When the father picks up the eggs and fry in his mouth he cleans them and re-coats them in mucus which prevents them from getting fungus and helps fight off bacterial infection. If he's leaving some on the floor of the tank and not mouthing them them they'll probably get fungus, but if he's still picking them up and they just keep falling out of the nest then you might be okay.

Last edit: 23 Oct 2009 08:29 by SpookyMuffin (Debbie Behan).

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23 Oct 2009 11:30 #6 by Jaffacakehead (John McPartland)

Replied by Jaffacakehead (John McPartland) on topic Re:Eggs falling out of nest

All the eggs were gone this morning and the nest all broken up.

Its two months since he bred last and he's in great condition.

I got him in May but I don't have any idea how old he was when I got him. He's never been very aggressive either so maybe he's past his prime.

Maybe its time he retired.

I'll probably leave it til the Spring before trying again anyway.

Do you have any half moon or crown tails from your last spawn?

I'd be interested in getting some off you if you do. They must be about an inch long by now.

Thanks for your prompt reply. I knew you'd be the one with the answers.

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23 Oct 2009 11:34 #7 by Jaffacakehead (John McPartland)

Replied by Jaffacakehead (John McPartland) on topic Re:Eggs falling out of nest

platty252 wrote:

The labyrinth organ dosent develop for a couple of weeks after they hatch.
I think if they are fertile they will hatch.
Just out of curiosity what temperature are they at?

82 F. Maybe slightly on the warm side but that's what's worked for me before.

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derek (Derek Doyle)
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23 Oct 2009 12:22 #8 by derek (Derek Doyle)

Replied by derek (Derek Doyle) on topic Re:Eggs falling out of nest

good thread and good points made. other things to consider are what type of filter are you using as the flow can ruin the nest. a small sponge is best, reduced to a mere trickle or turned off when nest guarding. also ime a few floating plants rather than polystyrene are a better material for nest building. finally i would not give up on this male yet as breeding and egg developement can go wrong for any number of minor factors and the next spawn may well work out perfectly.

30 tanks specialise in african cichlids, angelfish and various catfish

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23 Oct 2009 13:19 - 23 Oct 2009 13:20 #9 by SpookyMuffin (Debbie Behan)

Replied by SpookyMuffin (Debbie Behan) on topic Re:Eggs falling out of nest

In my experience, males who are passive need to be retired earlier. Not to mention the fact that a lot of bettas in pet shops are pushing a year old and are therefore already past their prime breeding age (6-9 months) when you buy them.
I think that it might be best to retire your male, but you might still get another spawn out of him in the spring (they are more likely to spawn successfully in the warmer months).

I have some fry at the moment that are six weeks old, they are from a cross between a Halfmoon and a Halfmoon Plakat so the fry should all be Halfmoons and SuperDeltas. They should be ready for new homes in a few weeks. I have a few people that are interested in them, I can only hope that I have enough fry to meet the demand! Would you be interested in a male or a pair?

Last edit: 23 Oct 2009 13:20 by SpookyMuffin (Debbie Behan).

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23 Oct 2009 13:51 #10 by Jaffacakehead (John McPartland)

Replied by Jaffacakehead (John McPartland) on topic Re:Eggs falling out of nest

That sounds like a really nice cross. Ideally a pair if you have one left but if you don't then just a male would be fine.

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23 Oct 2009 13:59 #11 by SpookyMuffin (Debbie Behan)

Replied by SpookyMuffin (Debbie Behan) on topic Re:Eggs falling out of nest

I should really make a list of all of the people who expressed interest and what gender/amount of bettas that they wanted. I'll put you down for a pair anyway, or just the male if all the females get snatched up.

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24 Oct 2009 20:31 #12 by Jaffacakehead (John McPartland)

Replied by Jaffacakehead (John McPartland) on topic Re:Eggs falling out of nest

derek wrote:

good thread and good points made. other things to consider are what type of filter are you using as the flow can ruin the nest. a small sponge is best, reduced to a mere trickle or turned off when nest guarding. also ime a few floating plants rather than polystyrene are a better material for nest building. finally i would not give up on this male yet as breeding and egg developement can go wrong for any number of minor factors and the next spawn may well work out perfectly.

I have a sponge filter which is barely trickling so that wasn't the problem. I usually use a large Indian Almond leaf for the male to build his nest under but I have none left so I thought I'd use the polystyrene cup cut in half lengthways as I saw it on the internet (everything on the internet is true!). Other things I've used before are bubblewrap or a plastic fishfood lid and they worked fine.

Its funny how addictive betta breeding is.

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Retirement and forum shutdown (17 Jan 2022)

Eggs falling out of nest