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Retirement and forum shutdown (17 Jan 2022)

Hi,

John Howell who has managed the forum for years is getting on and wishes to retire from the role of managing it.
Over the years, he has managed the forum through good days and bad days and he has always been fair.
He has managed to bring his passion for fish keeping to the forum and keep it going for so long.

I wish to thank John for his hard work in keeping the forum going.

With John wishing to "retire" from the role of managing the forum and the forum receiving very little traffic, I think we must agree that forum has come to a natural conclusion and it's time to put it to rest.

I am proposing that the forum be made read-only from March 2022 onwards and that no new users or content be created. The website is still registered for several more years, so the content will still be accessible but no new topics or replies will be allowed.

If there is interest from the ITFS or other fish keeping clubs, we may redirect traffic to them or to a Facebook group but will not actively manage it.

I'd like to thank everyone over the years who helped with forum, posted a reply, started a new topic, ask a question and helped a newbie in fish keeping. And thank you to the sponsors who helped us along the away. Hopefully it made the hobby stronger.

I'd especially like to thank John Howell and Valerie Rousseau for all of their contributions, without them the forum would have never been has successful.

Thank you
Darragh Sherwin

Growing aquatic plants in semi-green house / shed

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01 Mar 2012 14:03 - 01 Mar 2012 14:40 #1 by Melander (Andreas Melander)
Hi again,

I have searched about the subject on the forum but maybe I have missed the thread so please let me know if that’s the case.

Basically I have been thinking about propagating plants for a long time, especially Anubias which I find great and want more of. As of now I have only really done it in submersed form. They just grow so slow and I want to find out the best way to grow them faster without too much fancy equipment. I know there are many great enthusiasts of aquatic plants here and I am sure I'll get great advice.

Yesterday I bought the Practical Fishkeeping Magazine and there was an article about Anubias which I suppose gave me a kick in the bum to get started.

I have access to this semi-green house:


Would it be an idea to start using this or am I better of growing them indoors, I have not measured the night and day time temperatures yet.

I am aware that Anubias does not like it too sunny so perhaps the greenhouse / shed is not the best idea?

My plan is to grow them semi-emersed, ie leafs above the waterline, has anyone done this and do they grow much faster this way? In early tests the plant kept moist just by condensation.

I have e few of these seed boxes too which I was thinking of using either indoors or in the shed:


Looking forward to hear you views.

Melander
Last edit: 01 Mar 2012 14:40 by Melander (Andreas Melander). Reason: realised it's more of a shed then a green house:)

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01 Mar 2012 14:11 #2 by Melander (Andreas Melander)
It has to be said that there will be vegetables growing in the shed too and I will not have access to all of it.

Melander

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01 Mar 2012 16:51 #3 by stretnik (stretnik)
Replied by stretnik (stretnik) on topic Re: Growing aquatic plants in semi-green house
The biggest problem you will have will be temperature fluctuations, you can overcome this by using whitewash on the windows or Glasshouse shading, even single sheets of newspaper will help to keep cooking temperatures down during the hottest part of the day.

Kev.

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01 Mar 2012 17:38 #4 by platty252 (Darren Dalton)
You can try use Styrofoam fish boxes. Your LFS should be able to supply you with these.

Remove the lid and place glass over the top. You want to wedge this up on one end so air can get in and out.
The condensation will keep the plant moist.

For the base/roots you could either make up a nutrient rich substrate/soil and have the roots in this or just use water with fertilizer added.

I remember JohnH talking about this method before.

Darren.

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06 Mar 2012 21:26 #5 by Melander (Andreas Melander)
Apologies for not replying earlier, I suddenly was without an internet connection until today.

Very good advice from both of you, thanks!

@Kev I am was concerned about the fluctuations until I read your reply I was more worried about the night time drop though.

@Darren The Styrofoam boxes sounds like great idea, not only for the insulating properties. I'm definitely going to get a few of them and i actually found a few pieces of Plexiglas sheets in the shed which could serve as lids.

I have a feeling that this project will be a slow growing one(no pun intended) but in a way it suits me well as I can experiment with different soils and methods to see what works best.

Melander

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07 Mar 2012 03:21 #6 by sheag35 (Seamus Gillespie)
hope these give you some ideas


aquaponics


aquaponics greenhouse below - kinda weird people but should work for aquatic and semi aquatics plants, here they seem to use it for veg



Fishkeeping the Only way to get wet and wild

currently 25 tanks, and breeding is the aim of everything i keep
location:Limerick

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07 Mar 2012 12:18 #7 by omen (Conor)
Very informative videos. However not exactly Irish climate :D

The difficulty here is keeping the temperatures consistently warm. It's well worth checking out Tom Barr's Dry Start Method:
www.barrreport.com/showthread.php/3594-T...or-Planted-Aquariums

The plants need kept in a warm and very humid area with lots of light and nutrients. Normally the humidity is achieved by covering with cling film or a tightly fitting lid.

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07 Mar 2012 12:51 #8 by NosIreland (Andrius Kozeniauskas)
Hi Everyone,
I've tried growing Aquatic Plants(HC cuba, Crypts, Eleocharis parvula and lilaeopsis brasiliensis) in heated propagator that I put on windowsill that was facing south, so that plants were getting maximum natural light.
Now all of them grew well but slower compared to what I was growing in the tanks. The best growth was achieved where garden soil was used.
All plants looked healthy and HC and crypts were blooming. I used tank water to water and mist them.
The problem with these plants is the same that is with all emerged grown plants. Once you put them in the tank they start melting/dying until they adapted to new conditions. Because the conditions change so do plants and they do not look the same as before.
If you thinking of propagating plants then emerged way is preferred(this what Tropica and others are using) as I think it requires less care(at least for me) and you don't have to worry about algae.

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07 Mar 2012 13:53 #9 by omen (Conor)
The benefit of growing emersed is the plants have a limitless amount of c02 available to them. And because c02 is not a limiting factor, you can crank up the ferts and lighting. In theory you should get much better growth rates than submerged, however as mentioned this is after an adjustment period were the plants develop their emersed form. All aquatic plants have an emersed form, and they need to transition from one to the other when going from one state to the other.

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07 Mar 2012 22:43 #10 by Melander (Andreas Melander)
@Sheag35: great vids! I have seen been done before in a shop in London, I can't remember the name of the program but the store basically produced food fish in a large tank and pumped the water to be used as fertilizer for the in house vegetables.

@Omen: The Dry Start Method sounds like an excellent trick, definitely something I would consider for the future. Regarding the transition from emersed and submersed form (and vice versa) is there a trick to do it without chocking the plant, would a slow transition for instance make a difference?

@NosIreland: I was planning on growing them emersed and actually held one of those heated propagator in the store the other day but decided against it. You said they grew faster in your tanks and I have to ask If your tank was set up for good plant growth (proper lights, c02)? My tanks are definitely not set up for plants growth and I was hoping to grow the plants waster emersed than where they are a.t.m.

Cheers,

Melander

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07 Mar 2012 23:06 #11 by NosIreland (Andrius Kozeniauskas)

@NosIreland: I was planning on growing them emersed and actually held one of those heated propagator in the store the other day but decided against it. You said they grew faster in your tanks and I have to ask If your tank was set up for good plant growth (proper lights, c02)? My tanks are definitely not set up for plants growth and I was hoping to grow the plants waster emersed than where they are a.t.m.

Cheers,

Melander


Yes my tanks are in turbo mode(lights, co2 etc)
In your case growing them emersed could be a good option, as long as it's not too cold. You don't need lights for plants as long as you can place them somewhere where sun can reach them.

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08 Mar 2012 17:25 #12 by omen (Conor)
When doing the Dry start method to kick start a planted tank, when you fill it with water you really need to blast it with c02 and ferts, and keep the lighting period short to begin. This is a critical time, as all the plants will be trying to form aquatic leaves rather than emmersed, and they will be accustomed to receiving limitless c02. Lots of water changes and loads of c02 should sort it out, however this transition period is when you are very likely to get hit with algae outbreaks unless you keep on top of it.

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08 Mar 2012 17:42 #13 by stretnik (stretnik)
Replied by stretnik (stretnik) on topic Re: Growing aquatic plants in semi-green house / shed
If you want to use top quality Soil, grab Tetra's Pond Soil, it is specifically designed with aquatic plants in mind as it allows for strong growth but without Algae becoming a problem, I keep Daphnia adult stock in a Bucket with a bag of it on the bottom, while the Fleas will feed on Algae, they wouldn't keep it in check... the Soil is doing it's Job.

Kev.

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08 Mar 2012 20:50 #14 by Melander (Andreas Melander)
@Omen: I will probably not go down the full Dry start method yet(planted tank on the list), as I will start with tanks already set up. I assume that the theory is the same when regarding giving the plants a kick start when moving them from emersed to submersed form.

@Kev: Sounds great, I’ll try that. I was thinking of doing a test with a number of plants using different fert, soil, light etc. I know i could just look it up but i quite fancy the idea.

@NosIreland: That’s what i was thinking, my only concern with natural light is the Anubias, famous for doing well in the shade. I believe several forms I have had have done great in quite strong light in the past but I'm not sure about direct sunlight.

Cheers,

Melander

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08 Mar 2012 21:18 #15 by stretnik (stretnik)
Replied by stretnik (stretnik) on topic Re: Growing aquatic plants in semi-green house / shed
If strong Sunlight is a worry, you can buy special shade paint that is Water based and can be removed from Glass using a dry cloth, it reduces Light intensity by quite a lot, I have 2 eight foot by twelve foot Glass Houses and grow Melons, Tomatoes and Cape Goosberries using shade Paint as a way of preventing Leaf scorch.

Kev.

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09 Mar 2012 17:59 #16 by omen (Conor)
Planting emerse grown plants into a stable and mature tank should not really be an issue. You will initially get a lot of melting leaves as the plant tries to develop submerged leaves, best to remove these so they do not rot in your tank, and the plant does not expel energy in trying to keep these leaves alive. Depending on the plant difficulty and requirements the change to submerged form is straight forward. However more difficult plants will require c02 addition to the tank, and obviously the transition time will be much slower in a low tech tank.

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10 Mar 2012 21:26 #17 by Melander (Andreas Melander)
@Kev: Never heard of that before, great idea! I will try the paint, it sounds like it should sort my worries. Could even use some in the bedroom :lol:

@Omen: That's reassuring to hear, I am sticking to the easy to keep plants I have at the moment anyway and they will go back to matured tanks so the transition should not be a problem then.

I feel that I have gotten the answers I was looking for and have moved my first little Anubias nana to an emersed state. I'm going to stick to containers inside at the moment until we have gotten the "green shed" going with regular vegetables.

Would be a great little circle: using fish waste as fertilizer for growing aquatics plants and courgettes for the fish :cheer:

Thanks for the help lads!

Melander

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10 Mar 2012 21:33 - 10 Mar 2012 21:40 #18 by stretnik (stretnik)
Replied by stretnik (stretnik) on topic Re: Growing aquatic plants in semi-green house / shed
It's called white wash , it's a Lime based wash that rubs off easily when the winter arrives.

www.craftsman-style.info/painting/031-make-whitewash.htm www.ehow.co.uk/how_7616023_make-greenhouse-whitewash.html

Another hint for you is to get a 50 Gallon Water Butt, fill it with Water in the Aquarium, paint the outside of the Butt Black, it will absorb heat during the Day and release it slowly during the Night.




Kev.
Last edit: 10 Mar 2012 21:40 by stretnik (stretnik).

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10 Mar 2012 21:56 #19 by Melander (Andreas Melander)
Very interesting, I have a bit of a soft spot for lime as a material anyway, can't beat lime mortar for instance.


The water butt is another good ide. I have a couple of large black cattle troughs with at the bottom which I was thinking of using for something similar but a water butt would probably be better, and have less visual impact in the garden.

Melander

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