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Retirement and forum shutdown (17 Jan 2022)

Hi,

John Howell who has managed the forum for years is getting on and wishes to retire from the role of managing it.
Over the years, he has managed the forum through good days and bad days and he has always been fair.
He has managed to bring his passion for fish keeping to the forum and keep it going for so long.

I wish to thank John for his hard work in keeping the forum going.

With John wishing to "retire" from the role of managing the forum and the forum receiving very little traffic, I think we must agree that forum has come to a natural conclusion and it's time to put it to rest.

I am proposing that the forum be made read-only from March 2022 onwards and that no new users or content be created. The website is still registered for several more years, so the content will still be accessible but no new topics or replies will be allowed.

If there is interest from the ITFS or other fish keeping clubs, we may redirect traffic to them or to a Facebook group but will not actively manage it.

I'd like to thank everyone over the years who helped with forum, posted a reply, started a new topic, ask a question and helped a newbie in fish keeping. And thank you to the sponsors who helped us along the away. Hopefully it made the hobby stronger.

I'd especially like to thank John Howell and Valerie Rousseau for all of their contributions, without them the forum would have never been has successful.

Thank you
Darragh Sherwin

liquid carbon source

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05 Feb 2014 15:47 #1 by alan 64 (alan)
liquid carbon source was created by alan 64 (alan)
hi i am just writing this thread about liquid carbon source for plants as i have been using an alternative to what u buy in ur lfs, its called steranios 2 and its actually a sterilizer they use in hospitals but it contains the active ingredient all the companies that produce liquid carbon products use, well that is what my research has led me to belive, the ingredient is glutaraldehyde and its slightly stronger in the sterilizer so i worked it out at 1ml per 50 litres is fine i also have used it at higher dosages for algea problem with no problems and have been using it approx 8 months now, i think i paid 50 euro for a gallon so if u want to save a few quid u can look into it or ask me about my experience with it, hope this might be helpful to some of use

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05 Feb 2014 17:25 #2 by Redser (Richard)
Replied by Redser (Richard) on topic liquid carbon source
This sounds interesting, where can you get it?

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05 Feb 2014 18:14 #3 by igmillichip (ian millichip)
Replied by igmillichip (ian millichip) on topic liquid carbon source
My experience of using gluteraldehyde is as fixative in cell culture and microscopy analysis and as a means to effectively kill cells.

It is pretty good at killing living cells.

ian
Irish Tropical Fish Society (ITFS) Member.

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06 Feb 2014 02:06 #4 by alan 64 (alan)
Replied by alan 64 (alan) on topic liquid carbon source
il have a look at where i got it redser and let u know , thats interesting ian as it is used to kill germs in hospital surgery rooms and that

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06 Feb 2014 13:32 #5 by Gonefishy (Brian oneill)
Replied by Gonefishy (Brian oneill) on topic liquid carbon source

My experience of using gluteraldehyde is as fixative in cell culture and microscopy analysis and as a means to effectively kill cells.

It is pretty good at killing living cells.

ian


It sure is! I wouldn't be adding it to my tank....

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07 Feb 2014 00:33 #6 by alan 64 (alan)
Replied by alan 64 (alan) on topic liquid carbon source
well if u use any of the name brand liquid carbon products u already do my friend

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07 Feb 2014 15:16 #7 by alan 64 (alan)
Replied by alan 64 (alan) on topic liquid carbon source
here is a link redser of where i got it if u need any more info let me know and if u have any concerns just research it online as i havnt read a single thread where this has caused any ill effects on fish or plants or inverts and i have used it now for 8 months with no problems except good plant growth and low algea issues www.farmaline.co.uk/health/order/sterani...ectant-cleanser-5-l/

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07 Feb 2014 15:36 #8 by Redser (Richard)
Replied by Redser (Richard) on topic liquid carbon source
Thanks Alan,
No I don't have any concerns as different chemicals such as this are being used everyday in so many ways.

If you were to let some people know what chemicals are being used in our food preparation they would never eat again.

As you pointed out the small dilution used couldn't do any harm.

Thanks again
R

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07 Feb 2014 16:35 #9 by alan 64 (alan)
Replied by alan 64 (alan) on topic liquid carbon source
yea mate and im just putting this out there as it has saved me a few quid and id like to share that with people and i think ul find the product is 2% glutaraldehyde mixed with bufferd water and thats it so its not a big mad chemical concoction ha ha

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07 Feb 2014 18:09 #10 by Homer (Kevin)
Replied by Homer (Kevin) on topic liquid carbon source
Simon used to use it in Maxizoo, in the huge planted Tank, He swore by the stuff.

Kev.
The Glass is always greener on the other side.


It's NOT "Chee lick", NOT "Chee Chee Licks"!!! Cichlids is pronounced as "Sick Lids"!!!!!

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08 Feb 2014 10:53 #11 by igmillichip (ian millichip)
Replied by igmillichip (ian millichip) on topic liquid carbon source
Even if off-the-shelf products contain gluteraldehyde, there is a difference between having a product with a low concentration prepared in a controlled lab condition and a product prepared from a concentrated solution in a non-controlled environment.

It is the concentration/dose that is important.

Any product containing gluteraldehyde should only be used under guidance......... persons with an existing hypersensitivity should not really use such a high concentration of a product containing it without full protection (it is a molecular cross-linker and can easily trigger any hypersenitivity that is based upon cross-linking reactions).

Furthermore, as a cross-linker it has the ability to cause certain hypersensitivity reactions in persons that can become permanent (eg cause asthma as one example or worse).

In these distinfectants using gluteraldehyde there is often something added to prevent gluteraldehyde evaporation.......has that been checked out for long-term fish toxicity (it's like having soap added to something as a surfactant....safe, maybe, for us but not for fish).

You will also find that the manufacturer of this disinfectant states that it is cold disinection of instruments and endoscopes and that written handlng instructions should be obtained if using it for any other purpose ;)

ian
Irish Tropical Fish Society (ITFS) Member.

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08 Feb 2014 12:31 #12 by alan 64 (alan)
Replied by alan 64 (alan) on topic liquid carbon source
ian ur off the shelf products are 1.5% gluteraldehyde steranios 2 is a 2%gluteraldehyde mix with buffered water and as far as research goes i dont know ask the thousands of americans, english and austrailians that use it and as ive said ive used it for 8 months now maybee more and it works perfectly it even smeels like what u use from the locat lfs and i dont wear gloves and a tyvec suit and gas mask when im using it oh and im still alive ha gluteraldehyde

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08 Feb 2014 13:32 #13 by igmillichip (ian millichip)
Replied by igmillichip (ian millichip) on topic liquid carbon source
Yes....many people started smoking ciggies 2 weeks ago and are still alive.
And some people smoke very heavily for years and are still alive.
Those facts mean very little when determing the hazards, risks and dangers fo something.

There is a fundamental difference between acute toxicity, chronic toxicity and cummulative toxicity; there are differing toxicodynamicxs and kinetics attributed to differences in people as well.

I have not found any research showing that gluteraldehyde is not a hazard.

What is, however, shown by toxicological research is that an increased number of hospital workers working with gluteraldehyde showing occupational asthma are being noted (as just one example)

And I am sure that places that use it also have a gluteraldehyde test kit (if not then they should do)....I don't see many test kits for sale in aquatic shops.

Now, another common cross-linker is also used in fish keeping: formaldehyde (as formalin = formaldehyde in water).

Again, low concentrations supplied in small quatities under controlled conditions lower the risks but the risks still need to be broadcast.

ian
Irish Tropical Fish Society (ITFS) Member.

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08 Feb 2014 13:41 #14 by igmillichip (ian millichip)
Replied by igmillichip (ian millichip) on topic liquid carbon source
I'm not knocking anything by the way, but it is our responsibility to highlight health hazards to man, fish, other species and the environment where those hazards/risk/dangers are known.

ian
Irish Tropical Fish Society (ITFS) Member.

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08 Feb 2014 14:31 #15 by Redser (Richard)
Replied by Redser (Richard) on topic liquid carbon source
Once again Ian is speaking "common sense" (even though it's called "common" unfortunately it's not very common). All to often we are clueless to the risks and hazards we encounter in our daily lives. Yes we do need to make ourselves aware and take precautions. For example how many of us actually read the product information in the box with the products we buy for our fish tanks and take notice of the precautions we are advised to take. Because I worked in the medical & pharmaceutical industry I know I do. As such I realize that these risks and hazards do exist and take the necessary precautions so I for one will not have a problem using this product or any other that will save me money.
I also smoke and have done so for nearly 30 years and I believe that no medical institute could accurately assess the damage it has done to me until I'm dead and even then I don't think they will be bothered, but I am still alive. As Ian said it will affect each individual differently, so hopefully I'll be around long enough to complete my current build project of 540l African Mbuna Tank, sump and stand.

So be careful out there!
R

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08 Feb 2014 16:03 #16 by alan 64 (alan)
Replied by alan 64 (alan) on topic liquid carbon source
i do apreciate where in is coming from and i dont disagree with him one bit and its good he highlights this as he says is important to tell the whole story, me personaly i just feel this product is safe for me to use and i have done alot of research on it ive used it in two tanks with plenty of stock one with over 100 fish and plenty of shrimps and snails in one tank with no problems so all i can do is share my personal view and experience with it and the fact it saved me a lot of money and was recomended too me to a person who is highly regarded in the fish keeping society in ireland so foe me thats good enuf, others can make up there own mind im just tryna show alternative solutions and save a few quid aswel

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15 Feb 2014 01:24 #17 by fishhope (pat)
Replied by fishhope (pat) on topic liquid carbon source

Simon used to use it in Maxizoo, in the huge planted Tank, He swore by the stuff.

Kev.

can i ask kev would you use it?

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15 Feb 2014 08:32 #18 by Homer (Kevin)
Replied by Homer (Kevin) on topic liquid carbon source
Without a doubt, I wouldn 't be without it.

Kev.
The Glass is always greener on the other side.


It's NOT "Chee lick", NOT "Chee Chee Licks"!!! Cichlids is pronounced as "Sick Lids"!!!!!

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15 Feb 2014 11:20 #19 by fishhope (pat)
Replied by fishhope (pat) on topic liquid carbon source
Thats good,have a link to the stuff u buy,my main worry is putting your hand and skin in the water is it safe?

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15 Feb 2014 12:44 #20 by alan 64 (alan)
Replied by alan 64 (alan) on topic liquid carbon source
there is a link above at the start of the thread and i wouldnt be worried about that i have used it for spot dosing on plants and everythin, but if ur concerned just dilute it in a cup or something before u add it, me personally i just squirt it in but always avoid squirting directly where there are fish

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15 Feb 2014 16:00 #21 by fishhope (pat)
Replied by fishhope (pat) on topic liquid carbon source
can u buy steranios 2% anywhere local

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16 Feb 2014 01:55 #22 by Homer (Kevin)
Replied by Homer (Kevin) on topic liquid carbon source
You could try Lennox chemicals in Dublin or google Hospital supplies in Dublin too.

Kev.
The Glass is always greener on the other side.


It's NOT "Chee lick", NOT "Chee Chee Licks"!!! Cichlids is pronounced as "Sick Lids"!!!!!

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16 Feb 2014 02:07 #23 by Homer (Kevin)
Replied by Homer (Kevin) on topic liquid carbon source
I would yes but I would dose it carefully, as Ian said, professionally formulated treatments are assessed in great depth before allowing dangerously uneducated access to it, their dosage rates usually allow for an acceptable degree of error, any error with the raw material could lead to disaster.

I have never used it but know Simon, now at Artane Aquatics, did so and very successfully.

Kev.
The Glass is always greener on the other side.


It's NOT "Chee lick", NOT "Chee Chee Licks"!!! Cichlids is pronounced as "Sick Lids"!!!!!

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16 Feb 2014 23:56 #24 by fishhope (pat)
Replied by fishhope (pat) on topic liquid carbon source
is it alot better then easylife easycarbo,as i can get this for 60 euro 5litres and steranios 2 costs 51 euro for 5 litres so the thing is how much better is it and why?

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17 Feb 2014 01:58 #25 by alan 64 (alan)
Replied by alan 64 (alan) on topic liquid carbon source
it wouldnt be better its just a stronger solution so ur steranios is probably around the equivelant of 7 litres of the easycarbo but if u feel unsure about the steranios just go for they easycarbo, me personaly will stick to the steranios as i am using it daily a long time now and im just use to it

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17 Feb 2014 08:45 #26 by Homer (Kevin)
Replied by Homer (Kevin) on topic liquid carbon source
Wouldn't it be easier to dispense with Liquids completely and get yourself a proper CO2 system?

Kev.
The Glass is always greener on the other side.


It's NOT "Chee lick", NOT "Chee Chee Licks"!!! Cichlids is pronounced as "Sick Lids"!!!!!

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