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Hi,
John Howell who has managed the forum for years is getting on and wishes to retire from the role of managing it.
Over the years, he has managed the forum through good days and bad days and he has always been fair.
He has managed to bring his passion for fish keeping to the forum and keep it going for so long.
I wish to thank John for his hard work in keeping the forum going.
With John wishing to "retire" from the role of managing the forum and the forum receiving very little traffic, I think we must agree that forum has come to a natural conclusion and it's time to put it to rest.
I am proposing that the forum be made read-only from March 2022 onwards and that no new users or content be created. The website is still registered for several more years, so the content will still be accessible but no new topics or replies will be allowed.
If there is interest from the ITFS or other fish keeping clubs, we may redirect traffic to them or to a Facebook group but will not actively manage it.
I'd like to thank everyone over the years who helped with forum, posted a reply, started a new topic, ask a question and helped a newbie in fish keeping. And thank you to the sponsors who helped us along the away. Hopefully it made the hobby stronger.
I'd especially like to thank John Howell and Valerie Rousseau for all of their contributions, without them the forum would have never been has successful.
Thank you
Darragh Sherwin
Angles
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alan_co9 (alan_co9)
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17 Nov 2006 11:54 #1
by alan_co9 (alan_co9)
My friend is trying to breed some Angles. The 2 of us are looking for advice every. We seem to have it all covered expect for 1 thing, Leave the parents in or take them out? This seems to be 50.50, What do you think?
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apistodiscus (apistodiscus)
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17 Nov 2006 15:20 #2
by apistodiscus (apistodiscus)
Hi Alan,
if you can,keep the parents with the young. This serves several purposes.
First of all it looks great to see parents and fry in the tank.
Secondly fry cared for by their parents grow faster and makes your life a lot easier
Thirdly, brood care seems to be at least in part a learned behaviour. So once you start raising a few generations without their parents the natural behaviour of brood care will be lost.
Young angels will more than likely eat their first couple of clutches of eggs. That is normal and no reason to worry.
Keep a small light over the tank at night and the parents are more likely to successfully raise their brood.
Should you decide to go the natural way, try to find out where your dealer got his fish from. Fish from Asia tend to be artificially raised and are almost certain not to care for their offspring. Try to get hold of Czech or German stock or even better wild caught fish.
Wild caught fish are not as hardy as their tank bred relations but it is well worth the effort. They are better proportioned and have much better colours.
Holger
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alan_co9 (alan_co9)
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17 Nov 2006 18:44 #3
by alan_co9 (alan_co9)
Thanks for the info, ill pass it on.
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18 Nov 2006 16:10 #4
by Deeco (Deeco)
Make sure the water is mature and has low ph slate can be used but i've best success with cylindrical objects tubing pot's etc i've heard of them breeding on long grass plants and such but have never witnesed it
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alan_co9 (alan_co9)
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19 Nov 2006 08:25 #5
by alan_co9 (alan_co9)
Thanks for your reply, How low of a ph would you say?
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19 Nov 2006 14:21 #6
by Deeco (Deeco)
ph 6.2 6.4 range for parents when fry born raise ph 6.6 if you keep it 6.4 throughout you should be grand
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alan_co9 (alan_co9)
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19 Nov 2006 14:53 #7
by alan_co9 (alan_co9)
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apistodiscus (apistodiscus)
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20 Nov 2006 10:50 #8
by apistodiscus (apistodiscus)
Hi Alan,
it all depends where your fish are from. Wild caught need a pH of around 6.2-6.5. Stock from Europe can be bred in neutral water. You won't get as many fish but unless you have a commercial venture in mind there will still be plenty.
I used to breed them by the bucket load and I always did it as follows:
breeding cube 40*40*40 cm.
Temp. around 27-28 C
Hardness 6-8 dH, carbonate 2-3 kH
pH as above.
Sponge air filter.
As a substarte I always use an Echninodrus bleheri or similar. The fish will clean a leaf and spawn on it.
leave the fry with their parents for about 2-3 weeks. You will have to move them to a bigger growing-on tank therafter. Do not move the parents with them.
Now is the time for the first cull. You have to be ruthless unless you want to end up with misfigured and weak fish. In the wild nature would take care of that but since their are no predators in your fish tank, you'll have to do it. Anything fish that is missing fins or gill covers has to go. Also have a look for spinal deformaties.
Make sure you have plenty of BBS. Young angels are a hungry bunch. You'll have to feed them at least 4 times a day.
Take a small airpipe to suck up any feaces and dead BBS. You can corporate this with a daily water change of 25 %.
Holger
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alan_co9 (alan_co9)
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20 Nov 2006 12:02 #9
by alan_co9 (alan_co9)
Thanks for the info again lol, All of the fry (when they come) all ready have new homes. He should be doing it in 2 weeks, waiting for the water to mature a bit. Ill keep you all posted.
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alan_co9 (alan_co9)
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22 Nov 2006 09:32 #10
by alan_co9 (alan_co9)
Forgot to ask this question, :oops: How do you sex angles were not to sure?
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apistodiscus (apistodiscus)
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22 Nov 2006 10:04 #11
by apistodiscus (apistodiscus)
You can't really until they spawn. Then you'll see the papilla, that's where the eggs and milk come out from. The females is much larger.
Buy a group of six juveniles and wait until they pair up anything else is just luck. You could also get two females spawning with each other. When they full of spawn it will happen quite often
Holger
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alan_co9 (alan_co9)
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22 Nov 2006 11:07 #12
by alan_co9 (alan_co9)
Ok ty, Don't think he was going to get 6, Is his tank big enough? its a rekord 120.
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22 Nov 2006 12:14 #13
by Deeco (Deeco)
tank is fine put a bristlenose or two to keep the algae down, remove them when angels start spawning, you can see a visible tube hole under pelvic fins. when they start spawning they will also become territorial.
Don't buy angels too young they will take six eight months to become mature and then you could be waiting up to a year or more for a pair to form.
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alan_co9 (alan_co9)
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22 Nov 2006 15:38 #14
by alan_co9 (alan_co9)
Thanks ill pass it on to him. You have all been a big help thanks.
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apistodiscus (apistodiscus)
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23 Nov 2006 02:12 #15
by apistodiscus (apistodiscus)
You won't be able to keep 6 adult angels in a tank that size. What you also want to consider, if you are serious about breeding angels, is the need for a growing-on tank or two. I don't know how many fish your buddy is planning to raise and to what size but one 200 l tank is sort of a minimum
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alan_co9 (alan_co9)
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23 Nov 2006 15:30 #16
by alan_co9 (alan_co9)
The tank will only be a breading tank. At the moment he is only thinking of 1 or 2 batches of fry to see how he gets on. He is worried that if he does it alot he will be stuck with all them. He has 2 other community tanks, both under stocked, will these do as growing-on tank tanks? He is going to give the fry (when there ready to be moved) to his friends.
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23 Nov 2006 19:55 #17
by serratus (Drew Latimer)
hi folks
as far as i am aware, you can only sex angels when the "tubes are down", meaning, like most "unsexable cichlids", females have short, thick tubes. males long thin tubes. but you do need a " true pair" to compare!
imo.
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apistodiscus (apistodiscus)
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24 Nov 2006 02:14 #18
by apistodiscus (apistodiscus)
Hi Alan,
what size are the tanks? It all depends how big he wants to grow them. A decent size batch for angels is about 200. Minus about 50 fish with deformaties and other runts. That will still leave you with 150 fish.
They are easier and faster to grow in a bare bottom tank since it's easier to clean and monitor food uptake. You will need two 200 l tanks to grow 150 fish to about the size of an old 50p coin. Hope that helps. If you have any further questions send me an pm and I'll mail you my phone number.
Holger
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alan_co9 (alan_co9)
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24 Nov 2006 07:10 #19
by alan_co9 (alan_co9)
After your last post I don't think there going to fit in to his community tanks. I have a spear bit of money so ill get 1 tank and he can get the other. I take it these 2 tanks will have to be cycled first before we put the fry in. I think that's it all covered. (I hope) Thanks for everybody's help.
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apistodiscus (apistodiscus)
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24 Nov 2006 16:02 #20
by apistodiscus (apistodiscus)
one more thing. You shouldn't use a power filter on any of these tank. Simple sponge filters are the best. Samll fish won't get sucked in and they also fing very small food on them. Best of luck. Let us know how you are getting on
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Anthony (Anthony)
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24 Nov 2006 16:48 #21
by Anthony (Anthony)
After your last post I don't think there going to fit in to his community tanks. I have a spear bit of money so ill get 1 tank and he can get the other. I take it these 2 tanks will have to be cycled first before we put the fry in. I think that's it all covered. (I hope) Thanks for everybody's help.
Thats why I don`t breed fish any more. Too much hassle. Best if you have a fish house.
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alan_co9 (alan_co9)
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25 Nov 2006 06:35 #22
by alan_co9 (alan_co9)
Simple sponge filters, never thought of that thanks.
Thats why I don`t breed fish any more. Too much hassle. Best if you have a fish house.
It will be worth it in the end I hope.
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Anthony (Anthony)
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25 Nov 2006 07:17 #23
by Anthony (Anthony)
So do I mate.
Best of luck. I am waiting till I build a fish house. Hopefully next year.
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alan_co9 (alan_co9)
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25 Nov 2006 08:58 #24
by alan_co9 (alan_co9)
Thank you and good luck with your fish house.
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