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Retirement and forum shutdown (17 Jan 2022)

Hi,

John Howell who has managed the forum for years is getting on and wishes to retire from the role of managing it.
Over the years, he has managed the forum through good days and bad days and he has always been fair.
He has managed to bring his passion for fish keeping to the forum and keep it going for so long.

I wish to thank John for his hard work in keeping the forum going.

With John wishing to "retire" from the role of managing the forum and the forum receiving very little traffic, I think we must agree that forum has come to a natural conclusion and it's time to put it to rest.

I am proposing that the forum be made read-only from March 2022 onwards and that no new users or content be created. The website is still registered for several more years, so the content will still be accessible but no new topics or replies will be allowed.

If there is interest from the ITFS or other fish keeping clubs, we may redirect traffic to them or to a Facebook group but will not actively manage it.

I'd like to thank everyone over the years who helped with forum, posted a reply, started a new topic, ask a question and helped a newbie in fish keeping. And thank you to the sponsors who helped us along the away. Hopefully it made the hobby stronger.

I'd especially like to thank John Howell and Valerie Rousseau for all of their contributions, without them the forum would have never been has successful.

Thank you
Darragh Sherwin

When to cull? Ancistrus "snub nose"

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06 Feb 2011 18:09 #1 by Melander (Andreas Melander)
Hi fellow fishkeepers,

I'm back asking for advice again.

Basically I was wondering about peoples views on fry culling. Do you always cull even minor defects or do do you let some live if you don't think the defect is genetical and if it does not seem to affects the fish?

The reason that I'm asking is that I have noticed one of my Bristlenose juveniles (Ancistrus cf. cirrhosus, longfin) growing into a "snub nose"

Scroll down on this page for an example, I unfortunately don't have any pictures:
www.zebrapleco.com/core/hypancistrus_zebra_health.php

Being from a already inbred species I thought this was the cause, however after doing some research it seems that this is most common in fry from wild caught Hypancistrus and that the cause is undetermined for now.

My juvenile is the only one showing these signs and the parents have had 200+ fry before this without defects. It should also be said that it is a very mild case(unlike the pictures of the zebras), I can't see the fish being in pain or having difficulties eating, It is also one of the strongest and fastest growing from that batch.

If I would decide to let this fish live (it seems a waste to cull if not needed), I would have to find a home for it where it will not be bred, in case it is genetical after all.

Please share your views on this, thanks in advance.

Melander

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07 Feb 2011 23:30 #2 by bart (Bart Korfanty)
culling pretty word heh
i cull all abnormal ones as soon as i can spot them
tea tree oil, quick and painless
does not happen often tho
i always! breed from unrelated parents

anyways it's up to you what you gonna do

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08 Feb 2011 00:04 #3 by joey (joe watson)
is it not clove oil to put fish to sleep?

Location: Portlaoise, Midlands

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08 Feb 2011 12:27 #4 by Fishowner (Gavin fishowner)
Clove oil knocks them out alright,the tea tree oil is actually used in tanks to heal wounds eg.melafix..smell it next time. I guess if you place a fish into tea tree oil they would probably die at 100% solution,but I wouldnt think its a painless death which the clove oil appears to be.

Gavin

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08 Feb 2011 19:30 #5 by Melander (Andreas Melander)
Thanks for the replies lads.

Wish I would have spotted the fry sooner, before developing into a otherwise healthy looking sub-juvenile.

Never tried clove oil, either that or a smack on the head I suppose.

I would breed from unrelated parents when possible, the problem is with species like this that have already been inbreed in fish farms for physical traits and mass production and where wildcaughts don't exist.

For instance my longfin male x my albino female(from another source) produce albino fry which means that the male also carries the albino gene and most likely is related to the albino female somehow.

As this trait from what I understand seems to pop up randomly in several species of plecos, and in first generation fry I do not believe it's caused by inbreeding, I'm only guessing thou so better safe then sorry.

Going a bit off topic there but anyway.

Melander

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08 Feb 2011 22:02 #6 by Fishowner (Gavin fishowner)
Wont become apparent until the 2nd generation I would suspect?

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09 Feb 2011 19:32 - 09 Feb 2011 19:34 #7 by Melander (Andreas Melander)
No, suprisingly the examples I have seen have been F1´s, fry from the first generation with wild caught parents.

From what I have gathered allot of people dismiss this deformity as being genetical and one popular suggestion seems to be that it is a physical damage caused when the fry is punching thru the egg, which would explain why it is seen in allot of Loricariids and seems to appear randomly.

Melander
Last edit: 09 Feb 2011 19:34 by Melander (Andreas Melander).

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09 Feb 2011 20:02 - 09 Feb 2011 20:03 #8 by derek (Derek Doyle)
most but by no means all deformities are a direct result of inbreeding.
chronic inbreeding is seen in the consumer driven quest within the trade for brighter colours and longer finnage which leads to badly deformed individuals which become uglier and more and more noticable as the fish grow. (parrotfish long finned angels etc)
however even in wild caught and unrelated stock there is always a chance of runts or short or missing fins or bad body shape etc.
there are probably several causes such as toxins or chemicals in the water or incorrect water parameters etc. at spawning and hatching time and the first few days of life. also eggs and tiny fry can be easily damaged by parents or stronger siblings or too strong a current. plus incorrect diet or missing trace elements can be detrimental to proper fry development.
the decision to cull or not is up to each individual and should be done as early and as humanely as possible.
some cichlids and catfish can live a long life 10 years plus and if you decide to give up fishkeeping an ugly fish can be hard to rehome.

30 tanks specialise in african cichlids, angelfish and various catfish
Last edit: 09 Feb 2011 20:03 by derek (Derek Doyle). Reason: add word

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10 Feb 2011 19:22 #9 by Melander (Andreas Melander)
Agreed Derek, I guess I feel somewhat guilty for not noticing this at an earlier stage. Would I have spotted it earlier the choice would have been easier.

As it is now I think the fish has grown too big and is looking too healthy for me to cull it for being “ugly”.

I will try to find a new home for this one, if that is not possible I will keep it myself. I can’t see me getting out of fish keeping so that should not be an issue.

Thanks for the input!

Melander

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10 Feb 2011 22:48 #10 by Fishowner (Gavin fishowner)
If it was snub nose zebra pleco Id of happily taken it off your hands!!!

Gavin

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11 Feb 2011 16:34 #11 by Melander (Andreas Melander)
In that case I would have happily kept it myself:)

Melander

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12 Feb 2011 11:40 #12 by bart (Bart Korfanty)

Clove oil knocks them out alright,the tea tree oil is actually used in tanks to heal wounds eg.melafix..smell it next time. I guess if you place a fish into tea tree oil they would probably die at 100% solution,but I wouldnt think its a painless death which the clove oil appears to be.

Gavin


well it works for me, few drops for a cup
if u skeptical here's little something to read
onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.13...109.2010.02625.x/pdf

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