filling your tank

ok age old debate, but lets crank it up for the newer folk. dechlorinate first or use hose and add dechlorinator as your filling?. i must admit i recently gave it the hose treatment, only to find it wiped out the bacteria in the filter (organic aqua? dont Kev, just dont ) second time around and i knocked off the filter but it is more hassle than it is worth. although this "might" be ok for the fish but wat when your filter sucks in the chlorine before it has a chance to mix? any one any views or input

I fill up a few buckets on Friday nite and do a water change on Sunday and hope all chlorine has escaped by then. A by the way..... I was having trouble with algae forming in the external filter tubes. I put some flex tidies on them and problem solved. Maybe thats obvious to some but I'm well pleased and thought I'd share.

@Louis Not a bad idea! I've noticed a bit of build up on my filter tubing but you've given me the idea to use some of that foam insulation tubing instead, as I've an inline heater.Will see how it goes!

dar wrote:

ok age old debate, but lets crank it up for the newer folk. dechlorinate first or use hose and add dechlorinator as your filling?. i must admit i recently gave it the hose treatment, only to find it wiped out the bacteria in the filter (organic aqua? dont Kev, just dont ) second time around and i knocked off the filter but it is more hassle than it is worth. although this "might" be ok for the fish but wat when your filter sucks in the chlorine before it has a chance to mix? any one any views or input

I think you answered your own question there

Louis; chlorine does evaporate, but chloramine doesn't

Putting untreated water in a a cycled tank in always a bad idea. Trying to add treatments while at the same time filling the tank with a running filter is asking for trouble as they most likely wouldnt have a chance to mix properly and so you get a die off of essential bacteria both in your filter and within the tank aswell. If you intend to let water sit for a couple of days as opposed to treating with chems then I would run an airstone in that water to be sure the gas has escaped. I personally would recommend using treatments like stress coat or prime as they do more than just remove chlorine and chlorimines...always read the label .


Jay

yeah i am against it, but back issues and replacing 200 ltrs can be a right pain so i said i would give it a blast and thought i would point out the cons, even filling it with the hose and knocking off the filter is not an option in a big tank, as it takes too long to fill and the bacteria will suffer. so hose is a no no for me (back issues depending)

Hi Dar, I have no idea of your set up but I'm guessing it's decent with a 200L water change! what about a good pump and hose from a hidden storage tank elsewhere in the house/ garage? Might be able to fill the storage tank with the same pump as well- Fill storage, add Prime, let it sit for a few days and then pump on to the Main tank? Dunno if the idea helps but best o' luck anyway!

Is there chloromine in the water ?
The last I heard ( a good while back now) they only admitted to chlorine being added.

justin, wat you know and wat the government want you to know are the exact same thing...that's all you will be told, and you'll get more when they want you to know more

from a public health point of view, it would better politics to announce that chloramines are used rather than chlorine.
So there is really no logic why water suppliers would be coy about it....simply phone your local board and ask them

well.....don't ask if they add chloramines though, ask if chloramines are in the water.
They may truthfully answer 'No' to the first question, but may truthfully answer 'Yes' to the second as well.

For fish keepers, the reality is that there are enough high quality de-chlorinators on the market that not only remove the chlorine and chloramine but also remove the ammonia produced from the chloramine.

RO systems should also not have to be a concern if the RO system is maintained and used properly; if not then certain membranes can swell.

ian

For the second time, I got logged out while replying and end up at the home page and not the reply page.
I'll try to be quicker this time.

Heres a link to the National Water Study 2000

Theres a few interesting bits if you rummage through it.

www.environ.ie/en/Publications/Environme...eDownLoad,566,en.pdf

Also some interesting reading from two websites.

www.poolwizard.net/problems/chloramines.htm

Chloramines are the result of insufficient free chlorine and usually result in a strong chlorine odor in and around the swimming pool. Chloramines are formed as a product of nitrogen and active chlorine (hypochlorous acid - HOCl). The nitrogen is most commonly introduced into the pool water as ammonia in the form of sweat and (unfortunately) urine.

Associated problems
Chloramines (combined chlorine) are poor sanitizers and have a gaseous tendency. The presence of chloramines (and dichloramines/ trichloramines in particular) cause the following physical symptoms:

red, burning eyes;
burning sensation in nose, throat and lungs;
dry, itchy skin and dry hair;
breathing difficulty leading to "swimmers' asthma" particularly in young children.
In addition to these, the pool has a tendency to discolor, becoming milky or green with algae due to the low sanitizing ability of the combined chlorine
A shock treatment using either chlorine or a non-chlorine sanitizer will ensure the destruction of the nitrogen compound combined with the chlorine. The pungent smell disappears and the free chlorine level goes up providing complete sanitization of the pool water.

Pool water chemistry formulae - chloramines
1.HOCl + NH3 = NH2Cl + H2O
hypochlorous acid + ammonia = monochloramine + water
2.NH2Cl + NH3 = NHCl2 + H2O
monochloramine + ammonia = dichloramine + water
3.NHCl2 + NH3 = NCl3 + H2O
dichloramine + ammonia = trichloramine + water

www.toxicwatersolution.com/Water-Quality...loramine-Water-Test/

Chlorination of water supplies serves to destroy and deactivate disease producing microorganisms. It is particularly useful in treating drinking water resulting in an overall improvement of the water quality.

Chlorination also may introduce undesirable taste and odor characteristics. To monitor chlorination and to minimize any adverse effects, it is essential that proper testing is performed routinely.

Free chlorine is a very effective disinfectant. Total chlorine is the combination of both free (available) chlorine and reacted chlorine, or chloramines. Chloramines are formed when free chlorine reacts with organic compounds including ammonia. Chloramines are not effective sanitizers and may cause eye and skin irritation in addition to a strong chlorine smell.

Chloramine levels can be determined by subtracting the amount of free chlorine from the amount of total chlorine (example: free chlorine = 0.5 ppm, total chlorine - 1.0 ppm, thus, 1.0 ppm - 0.5 ppm = 0.5 ppm chloramine).

It's threads like these that make me wish i studied chemestry in secondary school lol

Stuart.

wylam wrote:

It's threads like these that make me wish i studied chemestry in secondary school lol

Stuart.

There you go.
I was quite happy with my choices (and they were my choices...and not the teachers nor my parents nor my aunts and uncles) at school.

@JustinK.....did you read that massive PDF file? how many hundred pages is it?

Hence, why I said don't ask if they add chloramines, but ask if chloramines are in the water (a subtle difference)

...this bit does not seem quite right....in the poolwizzard link:
2.NH2Cl + NH3 = NHCl2 + H2O
monochloramine + ammonia = dichloramine + water
3.NHCl2 + NH3 = NCl3 + H2O
dichloramine + ammonia = trichloramine + water

it doesn't indicate the increasing ratio of chlorine added and the decreasing pH (usually by addition of mineral acid especially hydrochloric acid). Adding ammonia would favour the production of monochloramines and not favour production of di- and tr- chloramines.
It should do to be correct...and to be correct gives more credibility to the rest of the story in my opinion.
(I used to teach chemistry at university, and so tend to be a bit fussy over such wrong chemistry stuff...especially on information sites and books).

ian

I think it was only 146 pages. Not as much info as I was hoping for.
As for the chemical equations, I had meant to check them first.Its been a while.
I can see maybe some Hydrogens missing for a start.

JustinK wrote:

I think it was only 146 pages. Not as much info as I was hoping for.
As for the chemical equations, I had meant to check them first.Its been a while.
I can see maybe some Hydrogens missing for a start.

Government reports....loads of pages, loads of money to compile, but maybe don't say much.

Yep, there is too many nitrogens, too few hydrogens and too few chlorines. I recon who ever did the poolwizzard info page needs to learn some chemistry.

ian