Help wanted

I am after having three cichlids that died over the last few weeks
First I taught white spot so I treated the hole tank and everything looked ok
My fish stopped rubbing off the sand and stones one fish died from bladder not sure the correct name
It was swimming head down. Now it looks like one cichlid has a problem with its scales they are gone flakey on one side
Is this some sort of parasite can I use food to flush out there system.
I using the same food all year flakes and pellets I do water change once a week
I added a new filter and six cichlids about three weeks ago I have 25 cichlids in a 350L
I can't see any stress and the only think I can think is maybe a fish had white spot but the lfs said they were ok
Any help or advice be great

Hi james, I know from experience that ich may be cured but the spores stay alive in your tank and attack after a few weeks again. Check if any fish are flicking against rocks. Did you try using aquarium salt?

Yes I got the aquarium salt and it helped I noticed one fish with red in the gills
Could it be a anti crustacean parasite

Only thing I can think of is flukes, gill and skin fluke. The fish will scratch like with ich but the gills will be red and imflamed. Only way to be sure is to check under a microscope. Fish with gill flukes will not eat, hide away and struggle to breath with red gills. Its s real pain to cure.

Hi James,are the Cichlids your on about African Cichlids ie.Malawi? The reason I ask is that Flicking against the substrate and rocks etc. is very common with these especially when only recently added......it's a territorial thing.......And is this the reason you thought it was white spot? or something else?

The red gills could be a few things but my first thought when I hear this is Ammonia poisoning........Have you checked your water? Any gasping?

When you added the new filter did you take out an established one? or did you just add it for extra filtration?.......Did you seed it or use mature media in it?

A picture of the fish with the flaky scale problem would help but this could be due to the flicking(if Malawi), but treating the tank with a mild medication cant do any harm (eSHa 2000 I think is good),but if you have an Ammonia problem I would address that first.........No matter what the problem is I would do a 40-50% water change straight away.

Ger

If indeed these are Malawi then it is most likely to be bloat from incorrect Food, it could be dropsy if not Malawi Cichlids.

H.

Homer wrote:

If indeed these are Malawi then it is most likely to be bloat from incorrect Food, it could be dropsy if not Malawi Cichlids.

H.

if its either of these then james should look out for swollen bellies in the fish.

paulv wrote:

Homer wrote:

If indeed these are Malawi then it is most likely to be bloat from incorrect Food, it could be dropsy if not Malawi Cichlids.

H.

if its either of these then james should look out for swollen bellies in the fish.

I am assuming that is what he meant by flaky Scales as a result of the swollen Belly.

H.

Homer wrote:

paulv wrote:

Homer wrote:

If indeed these are Malawi then it is most likely to be bloat from incorrect Food, it could be dropsy if not Malawi Cichlids.

H.

if its either of these then james should look out for swollen bellies in the fish.

I am assuming that is what he meant by flaky Scales as a result of the swollen Belly.

H.

Hmmmmmmmm and I assumed he was talking about two different fish?

Ger

A pic of the sick please james. I was thinking the flaky scales are from excessive rubbing against rocks.

I been reading up on all the different things and can't find a answer all my fish seem perfect healthy water is good with regular water changes ,just one fish i added was acting a bit strange in the lfs and just sitting on the sand and not swimming around much they were 3 Pseudotropheus socolofi albino Snowflake i added him to a tank of his own for a few days, the one that was sitting around is now swimming and showing no bother the one that looks short of breat is one of my Victorian red tail cichlids the other fish i added was Cobalt Blue Zebras cichlid ob cichlid he looked bloted from the day i got him but i think he always looked that way the other fish i have no id on him the one with the flakey scales is only on one side its a yellow tail acei cichlid . I added a eheim professional 2 external filter for the 6ft tank both filters will be moved to the new setup when its finished.Before i added the filter i cleaned it with my tank water i buy the same food for my cichlids so i didnt think that would be the problem.
i try get someone at home to get a photo of the cichlid i am worried about with the flaky scales
the reason i treated the tank for white spot some fish had a long white sting poo its gone now and back to normal

Does it look like this?

H.

Homer wrote:

Does it look like this?

H.

yes but its only on one side all the fish look healthy and are still feeding great but there is still something wrong i have found about four dead cichlids two 4 inch and two 2 inch one that died was swimming by himself, when i went to work he was ok and when i got home 12h later and he was dead

I would still be thinking bloat, If Derek Doyle sees this he will have a better Idea, he is a Cichlid Guru.

H.

Homer wrote:

I would still be thinking bloat, If Derek Doyle sees this he will have a better Idea, he is a Cichlid Guru.

H.

can garden pea's in a pod help with bloat you could be right but the last cichlid that died looked like it was gasdping for air can this happen from bloat

Most definitely, as far as I know , you can get meds for this but water conditions and diet as well as bad food can lead to this, it is Bacterial, my phone is on 2% right now so cant reply for a while as away from my charger.

There are recommendations for Metronidizole, I have a few tabs if you want.

H.

Homer wrote:

Most definitely, as far as I know , you can get meds for this but water conditions and diet as well as bad food can lead to this, it is Bacterial, my phone is on 2% right now so cant reply for a while as away from my charger.

There are recommendations for Metronidizole, I have a few tabs if you want.

H.

hopefully i have a photo when you get the phone charged but it does look like bloat now after i reading a bit about it. thanks for the help

ger310 wrote:

Homer wrote:

paulv wrote:

Homer wrote:

If indeed these are Malawi then it is most likely to be bloat from incorrect Food, it could be dropsy if not Malawi Cichlids.

H.

if its either of these then james should look out for swollen bellies in the fish.

I am assuming that is what he meant by flaky Scales as a result of the swollen Belly.

H.

Hmmmmmmmm and I assumed he was talking about two different fish?

Ger

sorry i missed some of these comments yes one fish has flakey skin on one side thats a yellow tail acei and the other fish with bloat is a ob cichlid he looked big from the first time i got him so i never new if it had bloat or should have looked the way he does

Ok the inflamed gills and gasping is worrying so I really would recommend a really large water change as soon as you can.

As for the bloating,i'm really leaning towards a dietary problem........These guys are really prone to intestine problems if you don't get the diet balance right and also if you overfeed.
The 4 you mentioned should really be mainly fed Spirulina based food as they are Herbivores,with an occasional treat of something meaty (bloodworm etc.) just to loosen (for want of a better word) things up.
If you could post what other fish your keeping in the tank that would be great as the dietary requirements can vary a good bit and trickier to get right when keeping lots of different species of Mbuna,Haps,Peacocks etc. in the same tank.

Ger

ger310 wrote:

Ok the inflamed gills and gasping is worrying so I really would recommend a really large water change as soon as you can.

As for the bloating,i'm really leaning towards a dietary problem........These guys are really prone to intestine problems if you don't get the diet balance right and also if you overfeed.
The 4 you mentioned should really be mainly fed Spirulina based food as they are Herbivores,with an occasional treat of something meaty (bloodworm etc.) just to loosen (for want of a better word) things up.
If you could post what other fish your keeping in the tank that would be great as the dietary requirements can vary a good bit and trickier to get right when keeping lots of different species of Mbuna,Haps,Peacocks etc. in the same tank.

Ger

If you could also let us know what flake and pellet food your feeding now that would be great also.......And if your going to try the pea,dont forget to deshell it and mash it a bit......if they don't go for it smear a garlic clove on it to make it a bit more appetising

Ger

one Victorian died from intestine and the other i really don’t have any clue it was ok when i went to work and when i got home it was dead i am doing a water change 2 times a week since i first noticed some fish acting strange i treated the tank for white spot and added aquarium salt this worked but i am still not happy and still think there is something wrong.

one fish is at 1:20 top left corner ob cichlid

Im still wondering about the red gills james talked about. Ive never kept african cichlids so im way out of my dept here. Seems between ger and homer it will get sorted.

paulv wrote:

Im still wondering about the red gills james talked about. Ive never kept african cichlids so im way out of my dept here. Seems between ger and homer it will get sorted.

maybe its just me and the fact i have a 3 Pseudotropheus socolofi albino Snowflake
and i seen one with the red gills

fish mix of malawi and victorian
i pleco 4 catfish
FOOD NUTRAFIN MAX SPIRULINA FLAKES (this is used so all fish get some food)
Hikari Cichlid: large Pellet Floating Type Cichlid Staple Specialists (this is used most for the cichlids)
bloodworms once a week

this is only on one side and it looks like some shin is like flake or shedding
i dont know if skin ever falls off and new skin grows back lol

This is what i got at the lfs but i am not sure if i should use it till i know more

I am a little concerned that aquarium salt has been used in a malawi tank.
There is potential to cause damage to the kidney.

The flaky scales look like physical damage from another fish (eg fighting or other "mouth induced damage").....but the photos are not clear enough to see.

Before treating any gill disorder, make sure that the water conditions are correct. As few people ever properly test malawi water, I would suggest simply making a few rapid serial water changes over the next few days and add some adsorbing material to reduce ammonia, nitrites and nitrates (as a minimum). Polyfilter is one of the best as it will remove certain organic materials that are detrimental to fish health.

ps. when was that video done....just able to open it after my post above

ian

The salt was used to help treat ich, at a rate of 1 tea spoon per 20l of water, hope my advise to james did not do harm.

igmillichip wrote:

I am a little concerned that aquarium salt has been used in a malawi tank.
There is potential to cause damage to the kidney.

The flaky scales look like physical damage from another fish (eg fighting or other "mouth induced damage").....but the photos are not clear enough to see.

Before treating any gill disorder, make sure that the water conditions are correct. As few people ever properly test malawi water, I would suggest simply making a few rapid serial water changes over the next few days and add some adsorbing material to reduce ammonia, nitrites and nitrates (as a minimum). Polyfilter is one of the best as it will remove certain organic materials that are detrimental to fish health.

ps. when was that video done....just able to open it after my post above

ian

I have tested the water twice this week i added a 2nd filter so i wanted to be sure it didn't do any harm to the tank the amonia 0 nitrite/nitrate both 0 to 0.5 i didn't know the salt could do harm as for the fight there is one fish in the tank and i am not happy with him he is hidden in a barrel and can be aggressive with other fish when they come in around his area thew video was done on the 24th of last month

irish-zx10r wrote:

This is what i got at the lfs but i am not sure if i should use it till i know more

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maybe wait till you know whats up with your fish before adding any treatments.

Acute use of sodium chloride with malawis (so long as concentration is not too high) is OKish, but chronic use is not something I would advise: although malawi has a high salt concentration, it is not the same salt as you get in aquarium salt.

There was once a common belief (caused by mis-understanding the water analysis) that malawi was a "salty" lake....keepers added aquarium salt or marine salt to "emulate" the natural waters: the results that I saw brough for autopsy were commonly called "malawi bloat maladies" (it is no malady it is a symptom of poor keeping or handling)

Incorrect RedOx is a big problem in malawi tanks......incorrect addition of salts, organic acids and other things can swing RedOx into an unhealthy position for malawi cichlids.
Lack of water changes can also remove the RedOx buffering; that would also be linked to false readings regarding the general buffering capacity of the water.

With the fish described as aggressive and in a barrell......is that fish taking up a position low down in the tank?
Often, the top-dog malawi cichlid will try to get the lowest position in the tank (a bit opposite to human corporate behaviour ).

Depending on the species, some top-dog malawis are not only a serious hazard due to aggression but some have speed that will out-wit even the toughest of other species.

ian