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Retirement and forum shutdown (17 Jan 2022)
Hi,
John Howell who has managed the forum for years is getting on and wishes to retire from the role of managing it.
Over the years, he has managed the forum through good days and bad days and he has always been fair.
He has managed to bring his passion for fish keeping to the forum and keep it going for so long.
I wish to thank John for his hard work in keeping the forum going.
With John wishing to "retire" from the role of managing the forum and the forum receiving very little traffic, I think we must agree that forum has come to a natural conclusion and it's time to put it to rest.
I am proposing that the forum be made read-only from March 2022 onwards and that no new users or content be created. The website is still registered for several more years, so the content will still be accessible but no new topics or replies will be allowed.
If there is interest from the ITFS or other fish keeping clubs, we may redirect traffic to them or to a Facebook group but will not actively manage it.
I'd like to thank everyone over the years who helped with forum, posted a reply, started a new topic, ask a question and helped a newbie in fish keeping. And thank you to the sponsors who helped us along the away. Hopefully it made the hobby stronger.
I'd especially like to thank John Howell and Valerie Rousseau for all of their contributions, without them the forum would have never been has successful.
Thank you
Darragh Sherwin
Listless fish
- pjq (pjq)
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28 Nov 2006 10:32 #1
by pjq (pjq)
Listless fish was created by pjq (pjq)
I'm new to this , got a 170l tank and 4 goldfish and 2 Shubunkins last Sat. , they are in cold 20C water without filter , I have changed +-10% of water every second day .
The 1st question ; one goldfish ( red on top and whilte belly) swins to the bottom and then drifts/floats back to the top , the others are very energetic but this one is alone and listless not much fin movement. Any ideas?
2. I feed some flakes once a day ( very little ) but they are not very interested . Im using spring water ( from the country side ) , it perks them up when added and they appear to feed on it , can the water have enough food and nutrients for them?
PJQ
The 1st question ; one goldfish ( red on top and whilte belly) swins to the bottom and then drifts/floats back to the top , the others are very energetic but this one is alone and listless not much fin movement. Any ideas?
2. I feed some flakes once a day ( very little ) but they are not very interested . Im using spring water ( from the country side ) , it perks them up when added and they appear to feed on it , can the water have enough food and nutrients for them?
PJQ
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- serratus (Drew Latimer)
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28 Nov 2006 10:55 #2
by serratus (Drew Latimer)
Replied by serratus (Drew Latimer) on topic Re: Listless fish
hi pjq
first thing i would do is test the water for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and ph. 99% of fish health problems is water quality, its there environment and any changes will stress them/make them more susceptable to disease. the possible reason they perk up when you do a waterchange is because you are diluting the toxins down. did you add anything to start off the filters, like cycle, stress zyme, bactozyme etc? tetra have a new product called safestart that is amazing! we sell hundreds of bottles of the stuff! it really works! you can add fish that day without maturing the filters!
they are probably not showing interest in food as they are "feeling unwell" from water conditions the spring water may have nutrients they like but they would still need feeding, however at the moment, do not touch the filter and do not feed them anymore, they ll be fine for a week or so, test the water and get back to me
first thing i would do is test the water for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and ph. 99% of fish health problems is water quality, its there environment and any changes will stress them/make them more susceptable to disease. the possible reason they perk up when you do a waterchange is because you are diluting the toxins down. did you add anything to start off the filters, like cycle, stress zyme, bactozyme etc? tetra have a new product called safestart that is amazing! we sell hundreds of bottles of the stuff! it really works! you can add fish that day without maturing the filters!
they are probably not showing interest in food as they are "feeling unwell" from water conditions the spring water may have nutrients they like but they would still need feeding, however at the moment, do not touch the filter and do not feed them anymore, they ll be fine for a week or so, test the water and get back to me
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- lampeye (lampeye)
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28 Nov 2006 10:57 #3
by lampeye (lampeye)
lampeye
Replied by lampeye (lampeye) on topic Re: Listless fish
you need a filter.....do u know if the spring water is good? can u test it ?do u have ammonmia and nitrite test kit? goldfish will take a beating but if looked after well they can live for 20 years
lampeye
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- serratus (Drew Latimer)
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28 Nov 2006 11:13 #4
by serratus (Drew Latimer)
Replied by serratus (Drew Latimer) on topic Re: Listless fish
hi pjq
i read in another post that your new tank is unfiltered! as panda says YOU NEED ONE! it will be so much easier to look after this is why the goldfish is listless, i no it is only one at the mo. but the rest will follow! goldfish are very messy, especially when they get big. they produce a massive amount of waste, i would even recommend 2 filters, one at each end and alternate the cleaning to keep one filter "alive" with filter bacteria.
i read in another post that your new tank is unfiltered! as panda says YOU NEED ONE! it will be so much easier to look after this is why the goldfish is listless, i no it is only one at the mo. but the rest will follow! goldfish are very messy, especially when they get big. they produce a massive amount of waste, i would even recommend 2 filters, one at each end and alternate the cleaning to keep one filter "alive" with filter bacteria.
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- pjq (pjq)
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28 Nov 2006 16:27 #5
by pjq (pjq)
Replied by pjq (pjq) on topic Re: Listless fish
Thanks a million for the replys , I have ordered filter and water tester . Shop said that 6 little fish in 170l would be fine , in addition I did add stress coat to the water .
Plan is
1. As tank can't be hidden from 3 yr old boy , it required hardy fish on day one . ( excitement was so great , I should have given child the stress coat!)
2. Get filter this week and add a few more fish at Christmas .
2.1 May have to dress boy in black for back garden burial tomorrow (stress coat for me this time).
3. Add heater in Jan and go tropical ( will need more advice then ).
PJQ
Plan is
1. As tank can't be hidden from 3 yr old boy , it required hardy fish on day one . ( excitement was so great , I should have given child the stress coat!)
2. Get filter this week and add a few more fish at Christmas .
2.1 May have to dress boy in black for back garden burial tomorrow (stress coat for me this time).
3. Add heater in Jan and go tropical ( will need more advice then ).
PJQ
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- lampeye (lampeye)
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28 Nov 2006 18:31 #6
by lampeye (lampeye)
lampeye
Replied by lampeye (lampeye) on topic Re: Listless fish
the shop is full of rubbish! get the filter asap...you also need it to break the surface of the water to keep a good level of oxygen in there. if you cant get the filter straight away get an airpump with an airstone, maybe someone or the shop can lend you one. dont add any fish until you get the filter and the test kits....and the tank is fully cycled.....
check out this link
www.fishlore.com/NitrogenCycle.htm
check out this link
www.fishlore.com/NitrogenCycle.htm
lampeye
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- pjq (pjq)
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06 Dec 2006 15:48 #7
by pjq (pjq)
Replied by pjq (pjq) on topic An Update
AN UPDATE
The fish died a week ago , once I realised theat the other 5 were fine and energetic I was able to relax .
Got my Filter today and set it up , they do seem to be even happier with the added water movement . Also got my test kit and found PH , Amonia , NO2 and NO3 values to be fine even before filter was installed .
Thanks for the advice , will be back for more ( hopefully not too soon)
PJQ
The fish died a week ago , once I realised theat the other 5 were fine and energetic I was able to relax .
Got my Filter today and set it up , they do seem to be even happier with the added water movement . Also got my test kit and found PH , Amonia , NO2 and NO3 values to be fine even before filter was installed .
Thanks for the advice , will be back for more ( hopefully not too soon)
PJQ
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- lampeye (lampeye)
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06 Dec 2006 15:53 #8
by lampeye (lampeye)
lampeye
Replied by lampeye (lampeye) on topic Re: Listless fish
good man,
you should change 25 percent of your tanks water every week. pick a day and stick to it.
you should change 25 percent of your tanks water every week. pick a day and stick to it.
lampeye
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- Deeco (Deeco)
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06 Dec 2006 16:20 #9
by Deeco (Deeco)
You know yourself
Replied by Deeco (Deeco) on topic Re: Listless fish
panda is right godfish shunbunkin require more oxygen per square cm than freshwater tropical or marine
Make sure filter is up to job get a small air pump fvor the oxygenantion of the water get one for 10 15 quid
Make sure filter is up to job get a small air pump fvor the oxygenantion of the water get one for 10 15 quid
You know yourself
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- pjq (pjq)
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09 Dec 2006 15:27 #10
by pjq (pjq)
Replied by pjq (pjq) on topic Re: Listless fish
NOT OUT OF THE WOODS YET
Lost a goldfish last night and now the sturdiest of all the goldfish is poorly . He is bobbing at 45 degrees to the surface ( but not taking air ) , pectoral fin is going but other fins are tight against the body . He is being harrased by a Subunkin and darts away for some peace powered by pectoral fins .
As I said previously , I got all my equipment on Wed.
Raised the water temp from 20 to 22 on Wed. and to 24 yesterday.
Filter return is a bit out of water , splash giving plenty oxygen .
Noticed first moss/algae growing on shells at bottom , water cristal clear.
Tested water ; Wed ---- Sat
pH 7.5 ---- 8
NH4 .009 ---- .03
NO2-N <0.1 ---- <0.1
NO3 5mg/l ---- 5mg/l
GH n/a ---- 9dH
PO4 N7a---- 0.1
I didnt change the water between Wed. and Sat , changed 1/3 after above test and added some stress coat , I'm still using spring water ( NO3 is 5mg/l , pH 7) .
Let me know if any of the above rings a bell .
PJQ
Lost a goldfish last night and now the sturdiest of all the goldfish is poorly . He is bobbing at 45 degrees to the surface ( but not taking air ) , pectoral fin is going but other fins are tight against the body . He is being harrased by a Subunkin and darts away for some peace powered by pectoral fins .
As I said previously , I got all my equipment on Wed.
Raised the water temp from 20 to 22 on Wed. and to 24 yesterday.
Filter return is a bit out of water , splash giving plenty oxygen .
Noticed first moss/algae growing on shells at bottom , water cristal clear.
Tested water ; Wed ---- Sat
pH 7.5 ---- 8
NH4 .009 ---- .03
NO2-N <0.1 ---- <0.1
NO3 5mg/l ---- 5mg/l
GH n/a ---- 9dH
PO4 N7a---- 0.1
I didnt change the water between Wed. and Sat , changed 1/3 after above test and added some stress coat , I'm still using spring water ( NO3 is 5mg/l , pH 7) .
Let me know if any of the above rings a bell .
PJQ
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- Processor (Niall O'Leary)
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10 Dec 2006 02:25 #11
by Processor (Niall O'Leary)
Did you do it in exactly this order or did you add stress coat to the water before you put it in the tank ?
Also increasing the temp only reduces the available oxygen.
Processor.
Replied by Processor (Niall O'Leary) on topic Re: Listless fish
changed 1/3 after above test and added some stress coat
Did you do it in exactly this order or did you add stress coat to the water before you put it in the tank ?
Also increasing the temp only reduces the available oxygen.
Processor.
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- Sean (Fr. Jack)
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10 Dec 2006 03:25 #12
by Sean (Fr. Jack)
That would be a ecumenical matter!!!
Replied by Sean (Fr. Jack) on topic Re: Listless fish
Don't be fooled thinking goldfish especial the twin tailed variety are easiest to keep, the Mort's in the fish shops are more from them than the tropicals, as these so called cold water fish come from singapore, and have got use to 28C and sangria! The only hard (from disease point of view) is koi and that is probally because they come from Israel, you could go down the temperate sub tropical route if you do not want to heat your tank, danios, white clouds Chinese sucker fish, in summary goldfish are very tolerant to NH3/NO2, but the twin tailed one like it hot, or at least for the first couple of months, you are very brave keeping these fish, I would feel much more comfortable if you had some "hardies" i.e tropicals.
That would be a ecumenical matter!!!
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- pjq (pjq)
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10 Dec 2006 04:07 #13
by pjq (pjq)
Replied by pjq (pjq) on topic Re: Listless fish
Processor,
The water went in first , then the stress coat . Surely the splash of the filter must be enough to keep 4 fish in 170l of oxygenated water ?
Sean ,
I asked for the hardiest of the hard to start the tank , will try some dinos and chineese cloud when re-stocking .
I assume from what you are both are saying that the symptoms ( fins tight to the body ) are typical of any sick fish .
PJQ
The water went in first , then the stress coat . Surely the splash of the filter must be enough to keep 4 fish in 170l of oxygenated water ?
Sean ,
I asked for the hardiest of the hard to start the tank , will try some dinos and chineese cloud when re-stocking .
I assume from what you are both are saying that the symptoms ( fins tight to the body ) are typical of any sick fish .
PJQ
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- Processor (Niall O'Leary)
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10 Dec 2006 11:55 #14
by Processor (Niall O'Leary)
Replied by Processor (Niall O'Leary) on topic Re: Listless fish
OK that's the mistake. Welcome to my world.
I was making this mistake when I started and couldn't figure out what was wrong. Read the following link and you'll get a full history of my woes and might even pick up more tips.
www.irishfishkeepers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=64
You see when you add the stress coat it neutralises the chlorine in the water. When you add the water first and then the stress coat the chlorine in the water destroys your good bacteria in the filter so your ammonia and/or nitrites won't be broken down.
I know you probably add the stress coat immediately after putting the water in but it is actually too late then the damage is done.
So add the stress coat to the water before it goes near the tank.
Think of your water as contaminated and the stress coat makes it clean and safe again.
Do this and wait till you see the difference....your well on the way now..no more hastle and wondering why you bothered with this lark in the first place. At least that's how I was feeling at the start.
Look forward now to a good healthy tank but don't forget to go easy on the stock, too many more fish at one time and you'll get screwed.
Processor.
PS. I'm in Carlow tomorrow(Monday) I can bring 4 Black Phantom Tetra and 3 Dannio (1 breeding) with me if you can make it over to collect them. That is if the would be OK in a car for 4 hours - 3 minimum anyway.
Perhaps the more experienced on the forum could answer this one???
I was making this mistake when I started and couldn't figure out what was wrong. Read the following link and you'll get a full history of my woes and might even pick up more tips.
www.irishfishkeepers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=64
You see when you add the stress coat it neutralises the chlorine in the water. When you add the water first and then the stress coat the chlorine in the water destroys your good bacteria in the filter so your ammonia and/or nitrites won't be broken down.
I know you probably add the stress coat immediately after putting the water in but it is actually too late then the damage is done.
So add the stress coat to the water before it goes near the tank.
Think of your water as contaminated and the stress coat makes it clean and safe again.
Do this and wait till you see the difference....your well on the way now..no more hastle and wondering why you bothered with this lark in the first place. At least that's how I was feeling at the start.
Look forward now to a good healthy tank but don't forget to go easy on the stock, too many more fish at one time and you'll get screwed.
Processor.
PS. I'm in Carlow tomorrow(Monday) I can bring 4 Black Phantom Tetra and 3 Dannio (1 breeding) with me if you can make it over to collect them. That is if the would be OK in a car for 4 hours - 3 minimum anyway.
Perhaps the more experienced on the forum could answer this one???
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- pjq (pjq)
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10 Dec 2006 13:31 #15
by pjq (pjq)
Replied by pjq (pjq) on topic Re: Listless fish
Processor ,
The stress coat and chlotine makes perfect sense ....... but ,,, that can't be my problem as I get a churn of spring water from a spring on the hill ( also use this water for making tea and softening whiskey ) as we don't like the stuff delivered by Kilkenny Co Co.In addition , the amonia and Nitrite levels are not spiking . I have tested the spring water and it seems fine , 5mg Nitrate against the 2.5mg in the mains water .
I wonder if the temperature increase is the problem , the lady in LFS said the fish were used to cold water .
In any event , I've taken him out of the tank to stop the Shebunkin harassing him . He is in a clean 20C container .
PJQ
PS I have PM ed you
The stress coat and chlotine makes perfect sense ....... but ,,, that can't be my problem as I get a churn of spring water from a spring on the hill ( also use this water for making tea and softening whiskey ) as we don't like the stuff delivered by Kilkenny Co Co.In addition , the amonia and Nitrite levels are not spiking . I have tested the spring water and it seems fine , 5mg Nitrate against the 2.5mg in the mains water .
I wonder if the temperature increase is the problem , the lady in LFS said the fish were used to cold water .
In any event , I've taken him out of the tank to stop the Shebunkin harassing him . He is in a clean 20C container .
PJQ
PS I have PM ed you
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- Processor (Niall O'Leary)
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11 Dec 2006 03:26 #16
by Processor (Niall O'Leary)
Replied by Processor (Niall O'Leary) on topic Re: Listless fish
Noy sure if the PM went through but can you ring me as soon as you can.
Processor
Processor
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