×
Retirement and forum shutdown (17 Jan 2022)

Hi,

John Howell who has managed the forum for years is getting on and wishes to retire from the role of managing it.
Over the years, he has managed the forum through good days and bad days and he has always been fair.
He has managed to bring his passion for fish keeping to the forum and keep it going for so long.

I wish to thank John for his hard work in keeping the forum going.

With John wishing to "retire" from the role of managing the forum and the forum receiving very little traffic, I think we must agree that forum has come to a natural conclusion and it's time to put it to rest.

I am proposing that the forum be made read-only from March 2022 onwards and that no new users or content be created. The website is still registered for several more years, so the content will still be accessible but no new topics or replies will be allowed.

If there is interest from the ITFS or other fish keeping clubs, we may redirect traffic to them or to a Facebook group but will not actively manage it.

I'd like to thank everyone over the years who helped with forum, posted a reply, started a new topic, ask a question and helped a newbie in fish keeping. And thank you to the sponsors who helped us along the away. Hopefully it made the hobby stronger.

I'd especially like to thank John Howell and Valerie Rousseau for all of their contributions, without them the forum would have never been has successful.

Thank you
Darragh Sherwin

PH Increase

More
30 Dec 2006 15:35 #1 by KenS (Ken Simpson)
With my previous 65l tank, the PH was nailed at 7.8 for the past six months. I recently noticed that my tap PH has dropped to 7.4. Not a big deal.

However, I tested the PH on my new tank tonight and it's 8.2!! Not sure how that happened. I have two rocks in there. They look like red sandstone that I picked up in Blanchardstown. Could these be the cause? I also have some new pebble substrate. This could also be the cause.

Should I worry about it?

I currently have 7 Corys, 2 Honey Gouramis and 3 Keyhold Cichlids which all tollerate PH up to 8.0. I also got a Bristlenose Pleco today which can also tollerate into the high 7s.

Regards,

Ken.

Please Log in to join the conversation.

  • Anthony (Anthony)
  • Anthony (Anthony)'s Avatar
  • Visitor
  • Visitor
30 Dec 2006 16:27 #2 by Anthony (Anthony)
Replied by Anthony (Anthony) on topic Re: PH Increase
You can test the stones and the rock by removing them and and pouring vinegar on them. If they sizzle then they are Alkaline and are raising the temp.

Please Log in to join the conversation.

  • ChrisM (ChrisM)
  • ChrisM (ChrisM)'s Avatar
  • Visitor
  • Visitor
30 Dec 2006 17:37 #3 by ChrisM (ChrisM)
Replied by ChrisM (ChrisM) on topic Re: PH Increase
I dont belive a jump that big would occur with the rocks (Lava rock??) and pebbles (Gravel??).I would look at the test kit myself.The pH scale is logarithmic ie
1 10 100 1000 10000 100000 etc etc as opposed to normal scales
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
so a jump of .4 is a fairly big jump!!Unless the pebbles were limestone pebbles or had alot of dust on them?Go with Antos method and let us know!

Please Log in to join the conversation.

  • Didihno (Didihno)
  • Didihno (Didihno)'s Avatar
  • Visitor
  • Visitor
30 Dec 2006 17:57 #4 by Didihno (Didihno)
Replied by Didihno (Didihno) on topic Re: PH Increase
Sheyot I just bought three of those red sandstone rocks in Blanch.

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
30 Dec 2006 19:20 #5 by KenS (Ken Simpson)
Replied by KenS (Ken Simpson) on topic Re: PH Increase
I'll give it a try tomorrow and let you know.

I'm also leaving a sample of my tap water overnight to test the PH. I believe tap water straight out of the tap can give inaccurate PH readings.

Regards,

Ken.

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
30 Dec 2006 22:32 #6 by serratus (Drew Latimer)
hi ksimpson
check the KH carbonate hardness, low KH, low buffering capacity.your tapwater supply may have changed?

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
31 Dec 2006 06:50 #7 by KenS (Ken Simpson)
Replied by KenS (Ken Simpson) on topic Re: PH Increase
Checked the GH and KH. They haven't moved - 180 and 100 respectively.

Regards,

Ken.

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
31 Dec 2006 07:47 #8 by KenS (Ken Simpson)
Replied by KenS (Ken Simpson) on topic Re: PH Increase
Just did the vinegar test on the sandstone and there is some sizzling, not major, but there is some. The substrate was fine.

I also tested my PH after letting the water lie overnight and it's up to 7.8. I'll leave it for another 12 hours and test again.

That's almost €40 down the drain. Blanchardstown should check this stuff out before they sell it. I'm sure there are others that will experience similar problems.

Regards,

Ken.

Please Log in to join the conversation.

  • Anthony (Anthony)
  • Anthony (Anthony)'s Avatar
  • Visitor
  • Visitor
31 Dec 2006 11:26 #9 by Anthony (Anthony)
Replied by Anthony (Anthony) on topic Re: PH Increase

hi ksimpson
check the KH carbonate hardness, low KH, low buffering capacity.your tapwater supply may have changed?


A kh of 1 can and will crash.
The rocks have to be raising the ph or you rtap water has changed as Serratus said.
Maybe all the rain washed tons of Limestone into the water supply. :roll:

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
31 Dec 2006 11:51 #10 by KenS (Ken Simpson)
Replied by KenS (Ken Simpson) on topic Re: PH Increase
I'm not convinced that the amount of sizzling confirms that the rock is the problem. There is some, but very little. I just tested it again a few minutes ago. Is a very small amount enough to confirm a problem?

I was out in Blanchardstown today and discussed it with them. They told me to bring it back and they'll change it.

It's intrestesting that my tap water when left sitting went up 0.2 from 7.6 to 7.8. I'll leave it sitting for a couple of days and keep testing it.

I read on another forum that you may need to leave your tap water sitting for up to 48 hours to get a true PH reading.

Regards,

Ken.

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
31 Dec 2006 12:23 #11 by platty252 (Darren Dalton)
If it sizzles at all you will have problems.
Get a bucket of water, test the pH, add the rock and in a day or two test the pH again. this should tell you if it is causing the pH to increase.

I believe if you leave a bucket of water aerated at 25c(77f) for an hour you should get a proper pH reading.
I forget the In's and outs of it but it has to do with the lack of oxygen when it is coming from the tap and the Co2 in the atmosphere.

Personally if i taught i was going to have problems with the rock i would change it, regardless how nice it looks. Happy new year.

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
01 Jan 2007 12:29 #12 by KenS (Ken Simpson)
Replied by KenS (Ken Simpson) on topic Re: PH Increase
I tested the tap water sample again that I took 36 hours ago. First test when it was fresh out of the tap was 7.6, tested last night and it was 7.8. Tested tonight and it's 8.0! This is just a sample of water sitting in a measuring jug that I use purely for my tank so it wouldn't have been contaminated with anything.

I also had some water lying in the bottom of my quarantine tank for about a week. I tested it and it's also 8.2. There is nothing in this tank only substrate which I'm pretty sure isn't causing it.

I doubled checked the test kit. I have a second API kit that I hadn't opened yet. I opened it tonight and tested the PH - confirmed at 8.0.

It's beginning to look as though my water has a PH of 8.2 at the moment, but needs to be left sitting for about 48 hours before this shows on a test kit. This hasn't always been the case as my pH was previously nailed at 7.8.

To be sure I will put the sandstone in a bucket of water and just water in another. I'll test both over the next couple of days to see if there is a difference in pH.

Should I be worried that I now have a pH of 8.2 and the maximum for my fish is 8.0 (7.5 or 7.7 for the bristlenose pleco)?

Regards,

Ken.

Please Log in to join the conversation.

  • Anthony (Anthony)
  • Anthony (Anthony)'s Avatar
  • Visitor
  • Visitor
01 Jan 2007 13:31 #13 by Anthony (Anthony)
Replied by Anthony (Anthony) on topic Re: PH Increase
I recon its just your tap water.
The rocks have increased your kh so your ph is rising. It hard to get a proper reading from tap water while it has Chlorine in it.
My mate is from Donabate and his was always 7.8-8.
Thats why he kept Malawi cichlids.

You might best buying ro water or an ro unit.

Please Log in to join the conversation.

  • apistodiscus (apistodiscus)
  • apistodiscus (apistodiscus)'s Avatar
  • Visitor
  • Visitor
01 Jan 2007 15:32 #14 by apistodiscus (apistodiscus)
Replied by apistodiscus (apistodiscus) on topic Re: PH Increase
Vinegar isn't strong enough an acid to cause sizzling. If that was the case you couldn't in food or your teeth would start sizzeling. Only sure way is to use undiluted hydrochloric acid. Have no idea if you can buy it in Ireland. I@ve read that you can use rost remover. No idea if that's true. See if I can find a can in the shed. I'll let you know if it works

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
01 Jan 2007 15:55 #15 by platty252 (Darren Dalton)
Lemon juice works. I have just tried it on some tuffa rock and it sizzled.

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
01 Jan 2007 16:04 #16 by KenS (Ken Simpson)
Replied by KenS (Ken Simpson) on topic Re: PH Increase

Lemon juice works. I have just tried it on some tuffa rock and it sizzled.


Thanks, I'll give it a try.

Regards,

Ken.

Please Log in to join the conversation.

  • Anthony (Anthony)
  • Anthony (Anthony)'s Avatar
  • Visitor
  • Visitor
02 Jan 2007 07:22 #17 by Anthony (Anthony)
Replied by Anthony (Anthony) on topic Re: PH Increase
You live in a hard water area anyway. It would not take much Calcium carnonate(is that right) to harden your water considerable.

Please Log in to join the conversation.

  • apistodiscus (apistodiscus)
  • apistodiscus (apistodiscus)'s Avatar
  • Visitor
  • Visitor
02 Jan 2007 09:11 #18 by apistodiscus (apistodiscus)
Replied by apistodiscus (apistodiscus) on topic Re: PH Increase
Neither lemon juice nor vinegar are acidic enough. Both have a PH of around 2.5. Same as coke incidentially and nobody is suggesting to use coke. You will need an acid with a ph of below 1 to be able to assess if your rocks contain calcium.

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
02 Jan 2007 10:26 #19 by KenS (Ken Simpson)
Replied by KenS (Ken Simpson) on topic Re: PH Increase
I'll just stick with comparing my two buckets of water over the next few days. One with the sandstone and one without. That should give me a good indication.

I tested my GH and KH in the tank earlier in the week and it hasn't changed to that of my tap water. I'll check again tonight.

Regards,

Ken.

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
02 Jan 2007 10:42 #20 by KenS (Ken Simpson)
Replied by KenS (Ken Simpson) on topic Re: PH Increase
Just did a bit more testing. My two buckets have now been standing for 24 hours:

With rock: 7.6
Without rock 7.6

The sample of water that has been standing in a clean measuring jug for four days - 8.0. BTW, my tank is showing 7.9, but I did a 15% water change on Saturday night so it will probably take a few days before it hits 8.0 again.

It's really beginning to look as though it takes a few days for my water to show it's true pH and that this has nothing to do with the rock. However, I'll keep monitoring my two buckets for a few more days to be sure.

Regards,

Ken.

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
02 Jan 2007 16:47 #21 by platty252 (Darren Dalton)

Neither lemon juice nor vinegar are acidic enough. Both have a PH of around 2.5. Same as coke incidentially and nobody is suggesting to use coke. You will need an acid with a ph of below 1 to be able to assess if your rocks contain calcium.


I am curious now as to why the lemon juice sizzled/fizzled.
Is it because it is more acidic than the rock?
If you were to pour some thing with a ph of 9 on to the rock would it still sizzle? I don't think so, but would it?
If you were to pour hydrochloric acid ( i think that has a ph of 1 or less) would this sizzle?
Now i know this will sound stupid but how would you tell the difference between the sizzle from the lemon juice and the sizzle from the hydrochloric acid?
Would the hydrochloric acid leave some sort of residue on the rock?

Apisto please make these questions go away. My head hurts.
It's like one of those itches that wont go away, except it's on my brain and i cant scratch it.

Please Log in to join the conversation.

  • Anthony (Anthony)
  • Anthony (Anthony)'s Avatar
  • Visitor
  • Visitor
03 Jan 2007 13:30 #22 by Anthony (Anthony)
Replied by Anthony (Anthony) on topic Re: PH Increase
The reason I think is because the rock is Alkaline and the vinegar is acidic.
I think it is a chemical reaction where both are equaling out or is the acid breaking down the calcium in the rock.

I also know that you know the answer and we are about to have a new Discus article debate. :lol:

Please Log in to join the conversation.

  • apistodiscus (apistodiscus)
  • apistodiscus (apistodiscus)'s Avatar
  • Visitor
  • Visitor
04 Jan 2007 03:56 #23 by apistodiscus (apistodiscus)
Replied by apistodiscus (apistodiscus) on topic Re: PH Increase
I have no idea why you a got a fizzle with your lemon juice. I tried it on some calcious rock that I have left over from when a kept livebearers and it did sweet f all. HCl over it and you could have mistaken it for a carbonated drink. Not intend on starting a major discussion on it so I won't go back to chemistry 101 here. Just sharing an observation

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
05 Jan 2007 13:45 #24 by KenS (Ken Simpson)
Replied by KenS (Ken Simpson) on topic Re: PH Increase
Ok, after 5 days of soaking the sandstone in one bucket and plain water in the other, the pH is as follows:

With sandstone - 8.1
Without sandstone - 8.1

I think I can safely conclude that the sandstone isn't impacting my PH.

I was out in Brittas yesterday and Drew suggested tyring the API water softening pillow to see if it would lower my KH slightly and bring the pH under 8.0.

I put it in my filter last night and checked my GH/KH this evening. GH was 80, down from 180, but KH didn't move at 100. I'm not sure it will have an impact on my KH.

Regards,

Ken.

Please Log in to join the conversation.

  • Anthony (Anthony)
  • Anthony (Anthony)'s Avatar
  • Visitor
  • Visitor
06 Jan 2007 10:35 #25 by Anthony (Anthony)
Replied by Anthony (Anthony) on topic Re: PH Increase
Those pillows are a waste of time and money.

Total rubbish.

Can you get your hands on some distilled or ro water.

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
06 Jan 2007 12:46 #26 by KenS (Ken Simpson)
Replied by KenS (Ken Simpson) on topic Re: PH Increase
Tested again this morning and the GH and KH was the same from the night before. The only advantage is that they lower GH and eliminate calcium deposits. I had a fair build up inside the lid of my old tank. That's not really a big deal for me as my water is only moderately hard so it's easy enough to remove.

Regards,

Ken.

Please Log in to join the conversation.

  • Anthony (Anthony)
  • Anthony (Anthony)'s Avatar
  • Visitor
  • Visitor
07 Jan 2007 14:14 #27 by Anthony (Anthony)
Replied by Anthony (Anthony) on topic Re: PH Increase
You have a 230l tank just crying out for African cichlids.

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
15 Jan 2007 15:24 #28 by KenS (Ken Simpson)
Replied by KenS (Ken Simpson) on topic Re: PH Increase
I put a large piece of bog wood in my tank on Saturday. Tested the water tonight and the pH is down to 7.6. I presume it will come down further but will eventually go back up again? It would be too good to be true if this solved my problem.

It's also tanning the water slightly. I thought I had all the tannins out of it. I heard that I can add carbon which will remove this? Will it also send the pH back up?

Thanks,

Regards,

Ken.

Please Log in to join the conversation.

  • apistodiscus (apistodiscus)
  • apistodiscus (apistodiscus)'s Avatar
  • Visitor
  • Visitor
16 Jan 2007 01:59 #29 by apistodiscus (apistodiscus)
Replied by apistodiscus (apistodiscus) on topic Re: PH Increase
Hi Ken,
lloking at the fish you are keeping, the tanins will actually be benificial for them. You can take them out with carbon. If you have live plants I wouldn't use carbon since this also removes nutrients.

Holger

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
16 Jan 2007 06:42 #30 by KenS (Ken Simpson)
Replied by KenS (Ken Simpson) on topic Re: PH Increase
Thanks Holger. I'll leave it alone.

Regards,

Ken.

Please Log in to join the conversation.

Time to create page: 0.082 seconds
Powered by Kunena Forum