Water testing and changes etc.

Hey folks,

I'm having a contemplative afternoon and was just wondering what your thoughts are regarding water quality and water changes in freshwater tropical and coldwater systems.

I'm asking because I've never done one myself. I've been keeping fish for over 15 years and in that time I've never once tested my water nor have I ever done any sort of a water change. I've never had a disease outbreak nor have I ever had any fish die on me due to disease or water quality (I've had a few eat each other but thats another story).

Am I the execption to the rule?

Opinions?

The ideal fish tank so

What size is it?,,current fish ?

at the minute I've only got one freshwater tank (120L juwel, Lido i think, the cubish one)

I've 1 syno catfish (can't figure out what sort of syno)

6 Juvenile Brichardi

1 small frontosa.

Thats all. I got rid of my 120l malawi tank and got myself a 180L marine and a 55L marine instead. I do however, do water changes on the 55L marine, if only been keeping marine for 6 months.

With the freshwater tank I've had this particular one for over a year. It got 1 full water change (when I moved house) but apart from that it's fairly self sufficient. I feed them every 2 days and they look after themselves.

Hy,
no disrespect to the breeds which you have in the tank,but they are simple to keep and adapt well.If you try this for example with tropheus or wild caught ones its another story.In my opinion we often do to much on our tanks(a whole industry lives of it)sometimes its even better to let it go the natures way and fish will adapt to it-but in my opinion there is no way around waterchages.
Regards,Tim

no disrespect taken!

You're right they are simple to keep (that's why i chose them) but I've kept every sort of tropical fish at this stage and I've always used the same methods. Slowly adding fish, mature filters and never ever over feeding.

Hy,
there is no right or wrong in our hobby.What works for one doesnt have to work for the other-so everyone is his own pioneer-that makes it soooooo interesting.Keep going like that when it works for you.Regards,Tim

hiya q
Fair play to ya ....I can see where you are coming from Re water testing....but not with water changing...I try and change some water fortnightly if not weekly but because of my setup (keeping South American fish in water that's so hard we have to add salt to avoid changing our washing machine every 6 months) some people have advised that I don't change water and instead add something like TETRA easy balance...I'm not a fan of using unnecessary chemicals but I still do like my water changes...if nothing else it allows me to just keep an eye on things in the tank.
Lar

It's just a sustainable ecosystem (virtually), Most people start keeping fish nowadays by the book and usually start overcleaning and over medicating, which leads to disaster. You however didn't , and in fact by fluke through your own ignorance of "the rules" (No offence meant) have created something much closer to what true fishkeeping is all about and it can take many by the book over zealous fishkeepers years to realise this.... Leave the damn tank alone!

It's possible for example to take a goldfish bowl, add some tiny plants and planteating fish. Let mature for a few weeks and SEAL the top closed with no air coming in. These fish can live for years. They eat the plants, plants feed on the fish waste and cycle the oxygen , bang! sealed sustainable ecosystem.

If you had a more fish then you would need water changes. It's not ideal but it's a lot better then over zealous fish keepers killing their fish with kindness, always tinkering with what doesn't need to be tinkered with, treating for disease because a fish looks "sad" or scrubbing filters and dumping chlorinated water followed by a big dollop of Stress Coat.

Only thing id say is your fish may be stunted by the nitrates. Your fish are accustomed to the environment and the high nitrates, in fact dumping them into a "clean" system could kill them. You obviously top up the water as it evaporates over time? Do you have plants?

Some people here would be shocked and suprised by what some friends of mine get away with!

Imagine 220 l tank, 1 fluval 4 filter. Water changes every 2 months. The fish in this tank?
8 x 10- 15" pleco's,
6 x 6-8" syno's
10 x 6 - 18 " bichirs,
8 other assorted catfish from 8-15 ",
1 x 16" Silver arowana,
2 x 9" oscars, 2x 8 " snakeheads,
1 x 6" pike cichlid,
1 12" fire eel,
1 6" blue crayfish!!!
It's like a wall of fish and not ideal but as far as health go's...
No problems!!!!

My girlfriend has around 100 small fish in a small tank with a fluval 3 internal filter, 2 amazon swords NEVER water changes only tops up the evap! Again no problems!

Myself it's once monthly 40% in my 400l

seriously though Many of the over zealous fishkeepers could learn a thing or 2 from q547. Good fish keeping is a fine line between doing all you can and doing nothing at all!

As for test kits, I don't test weekly, or at any regular interval. I test (v.rarely) when i'm curious about something like establishing a good PH reading or when I see any signs somethings off. I just watch my fish as a guide, their behaviour tells me everything's ok or not. So not everyone tests weekly your not alone there. I think you get a feel for reading the tank and fish, works for me anyway. For example I never bother testing for ammonia or nitrites in my established tanks as I know it's zero, because i've been doin it long enough to be 99.99% certain and thats good enough for me!

Trimax wrote:

It's just a sustainable ecosystem (virtually), Most people start keeping fish nowadays by the book and usually start overcleaning and over medicating, which leads to disaster. You however didn't , and in fact by fluke through your own ignorance of "the rules" (No offence meant) have created something much closer to what true fishkeeping is all about and it can take many by the book over zealous fishkeepers years to realise this.... Leave the damn tank alone!

It's possible for example to take a goldfish bowl, add some tiny plants and planteating fish. Let mature for a few weeks and SEAL the top closed with no air coming in. These fish can live for years. They eat the plants, plants feed on the fish waste and cycle the oxygen , bang! sealed sustainable ecosystem.

If you had a more fish then you would need water changes. It's not ideal but it's a lot better then over zealous fish keepers killing their fish with kindness, always tinkering with what doesn't need to be tinkered with, treating for disease because a fish looks "sad" or scrubbing filters and dumping chlorinated water followed by a big dollop of Stress Coat.

Only thing id say is your fish may be stunted by the nitrates. Your fish are accustomed to the environment and the high nitrates, in fact dumping them into a "clean" system could kill them. You obviously top up the water as it evaporates over time? Do you have plants?

Some people here would be shocked and suprised by what some friends of mine get away with!

Imagine 220 l tank, 1 fluval 4 filter. Water changes every 2 months. The fish in this tank?
8 x 10- 15" pleco's,
6 x 6-8" syno's
10 x 6 - 18 " bichirs,
8 other assorted catfish from 8-15 ",
1 x 16" Silver arowana,
2 x 9" oscars, 2x 8 " snakeheads,
1 x 6" pike cichlid,
1 12" fire eel,
1 6" blue crayfish!!!
It's like a wall of fish and not ideal but as far as health go's...
No problems!!!!

My girlfriend has around 100 small fish in a small tank with a fluval 3 internal filter, 2 amazon swords NEVER water changes only tops up the evap! Again no problems!

Myself it's once monthly 40% in my 400l

seriously though Many of the over zealous fishkeepers could learn a thing or 2 from q547. Good fish keeping is a fine line between doing all you can and doing nothing at all!

As for test kits, I don't test weekly, or at any regular interval. I test (v.rarely) when i'm curious about something like establishing a good PH reading or when I see any signs somethings off. I just watch my fish as a guide, their behaviour tells me everything's ok or not. So not everyone tests weekly your not alone there. I think you get a feel for reading the tank and fish, works for me anyway. For example I never bother testing for ammonia or nitrites in my established tanks as I know it's zero, because i've been doin it long enough to be 99.99% certain and thats good enough for me!

I think I know the tank you are talking about Trimax, if its the same chap I am thinking of he has had a raft of deaths but just replaces the fish each time with other fish.

The arowana was one of two big ones that went in & one died the next day.

Brilliant, I would love a tank like this!! One question what do you do with the poop in the gravel. does it break down itself. As I clean my gravel out every month with a gravel vac and the dirt is awfull!! Also what do you do about algae on the tank - clean it or leave it. As I cannot avoid some sort of algae buildup over a few weeks!

Something I learned through the years:

1. As much it is tempting - never overfeed, or feed 70% full two time a day. I dont really know how to measure 100% versus 70-80% but i reckon when you feed it should only take 30-45 seconds to finish all the feeds, floating and sunk. This promotes lively fish that will always long for food. This helps to 'cleanse' fishes system when less food is digested and released promoting low ammonia levels, less algae and prevents fish bloat due to high protein feeds.

2. Promote the hobby to the nearest friend you have - this helps during holidays when you have to go 2 weeks or more. The friend will surely know what to do in your absence. When I went to Canada for 10 months be sure to make a well prepared fish reminder log.

3. Daily Partial Water Changes - if you got the time - never cease the chance to take out the physical waste. Either you net or siphon. This promotes lesser issues with chemistry imbalance with less frequent but drastic volume water changes. although I've done 60% WC before it was very rare and you have to get conditioners on standby to make sure no major spikes happen.

4. Water Testing - Honestly, and real honestly when you religiously do the water changes and feeding below 80%, I only test for PH....many will object that for the 10 years I've taken care of freshwater fish I had only tested PH levels. One point I had a PH of 3.5! I realized the fish is still happy on very very acidic water but I'm probably shortening its lifespan. So i decided to keep levels higher to 6.0 by adding coral chips.

5. Fish Stocking - as much as it is tempting to buy all the fish you like - learn to 'tame' the desire to buy fish when your tank is already settled and fully stocked. When someone offers free fish, graciously decline and say you have no space but you would have accepted it - The problem with more fish is that you have more livestock to worry about, each fish will have less quality time from your, protential problems with so many things like incompatibility, water condition, and eventually fish death. There is also problems with increasing electricity bills.

Some great ponits there Ian and alot I stick too. What do you mean by " 70% full two time a day" - 70% of what, or am I missing somthing?

nonie wrote:

Some great ponits there Ian and alot I stick too. What do you mean by " 70% full two time a day" - 70% of what, or am I missing somthing?

Feed 70% full 2 times a day. I guess its not the type of feed but the duration a stock of fish will consume the feed. Some day feed that will take 5 mins for the fish to finish off. I saw make it 1min only - I think it will extend the life of a fish being fed less full everytime.

What's my say about Automatic WC Systems - not to offend anyone who has them but I'm not for those systems as for me they totally rin the fun off fishkeeping. I have at one time reared 20 tanks in sponge filters and never loss a fish due to foul water. I had been working full time as an IT professional, with 3 kids and managed to find the time to keep the water good. I had my water source very near the tanks - never throw away water as they are best for watering plants, and you have water to rinse new and old filters. Always keep a water drum near for water changes, and have a battery operated pump for rare emergencies or when you are transferring out fish (fish out of tank more 24 hours or more). I actually have a 6 stage RO unit for 3 years and honestly never used it for water changes. I've always used TAP and I store water in 5 liter bottles with holes on the cap - at one time I stored 38 of them bottles for aging water.

Ian where do you live that accomodates all the tanks, bottles and ro units!!! LOL Fair play it looks like you are prepared for any scenario. I would really like to have the space to keep such quantities as reserve. A one bedroom apartment almost fits a small tank!!

Just had a read of the posts here and have found it helpfull.

I used to over feed my fish and since i stopped doing it 6 weeks ago i have noticed a huge difference in the quality with w/c and fish. I feed my fish every 2 days and only for around 1 minute to 1 and a half minutes fish are alot happier and active so much more. Also changed what food i gave the fish to a more balanced all round flake food.

As for water changes, i always tested my water every few days, taking what i read in books as gospel..... i started to see that i didnt need to do water changes so often or test my water as much. My tank is pretty much ok as is, i do a small water every week about 10% or so just to stop a build up of nitrate keeping it to around 10 ppm. Since doin that, there is never a difference in w/c and the water test results never really change at all.

I am new to fish keeping, been at it now 6 months and since then i have learned so much, most of what i learned came from just doin things myself learning as i go and speaking to actual fish keepers with experience.

I think a website like this is a great idea and thanks to the people running it:laugh: I have learned so much from everyone here. You can read about difffernet ways for doing this and that but being able to talk to people with experience who have had the same issues i have had and no how to help is great so much better then anything you can read in book.

Alan

HI Alan,

I have to agree nothing like learning for yourself. You can read so mush on settign up tanks, what to keep etc but it is not until you do it for yourself and come across the problems and mistakes that is the real learning curve.

nonie wrote:

HI Alan,

I have to agree nothing like learning for yourself. You can read so mush on settign up tanks, what to keep etc but it is not until you do it for yourself and come across the problems and mistakes that is the real learning curve.

Another big lesson for me is when I lost a valuable fish. I lost one not of my neglect or any water problems - I have a 23in Shleropages Ferrerei (Black Arowana) which I reared from a 2in fry jumped out of a hole in my tank after a caretaker left a narrow gap after feeding...I was in the office then. My 'mourning' took me years to regret and I have no one to blame but myself I have been asking a caretaker to look after my fish during daytime - which was a big lesson for me. The 'caretaker' wont have the same passion as you have towards your fish...

Yeah not only do you learn but isnt that part of the enjoyment of have fish......? or any pet

Its great when you have a sick pet and help it recover and get better again or when they breed its all part of the fun if you ask me:laugh:

And when you have learned from ur mistakes you can pass on what you know to other people and give them help which again is part of the enjoyment for me anyway.

Alan

alkiely wrote:

Yeah not only do you learn but isnt that part of the enjoyment of have fish......? or any pet

Its great when you have a sick pet and help it recover and get better again or when they breed its all part of the fun if you ask me:laugh:

And when you have learned from ur mistakes you can pass on what you know to other people and give them help which again is part of the enjoyment for me anyway.

Alan

I agree 100%, I like to get my arms wet so to speak!

Ian wrote:

nonie wrote:

HI Alan,

I have to agree nothing like learning for yourself. You can read so mush on settign up tanks, what to keep etc but it is not until you do it for yourself and come across the problems and mistakes that is the real learning curve.

Another big lesson for me is when I lost a valuable fish. I lost one not of my neglect or any water problems - I have a 23in Shleropages Ferrerei (Black Arowana) which I reared from a 2in fry jumped out of a hole in my tank after a caretaker left a narrow gap after feeding...I was in the office then. My 'mourning' took me years to regret and I have no one to blame but myself I have been asking a caretaker to look after my fish during daytime - which was a big lesson for me. The 'caretaker' wont have the same passion as you have towards your fish...

I know your pain, I lost a green arowana. 420 euro, microchipped with cites certs and framed breeding records. Jumped out a small hole, Found it the next day dead and dry. As if there wasn't few enough left in the world.

Trimax wrote:

Ian wrote:

nonie wrote:

HI Alan,

I have to agree nothing like learning for yourself. You can read so mush on settign up tanks, what to keep etc but it is not until you do it for yourself and come across the problems and mistakes that is the real learning curve.

Another big lesson for me is when I lost a valuable fish. I lost one not of my neglect or any water problems - I have a 23in Shleropages Ferrerei (Black Arowana) which I reared from a 2in fry jumped out of a hole in my tank after a caretaker left a narrow gap after feeding...I was in the office then. My 'mourning' took me years to regret and I have no one to blame but myself I have been asking a caretaker to look after my fish during daytime - which was a big lesson for me. The 'caretaker' wont have the same passion as you have towards your fish...

I know your pain, I lost a green arowana. 420 euro, microchipped with cites certs and framed breeding records. Jumped out a small hole, Found it the next day dead and dry. As if there wasn't few enough left in the world.

420 euros for a green arowana is indeed dear here in Ireland - sorry to hear your loss Jim. I kept mine in a freezer for 2 years...A black arowana would probably command 2x if not 3x that for good sized juvinile....really need to keep our eye on them. Water levels low and in the best least disturbed part of the house or we get them spooked and affect their growth.