Retirement and forum shutdown (17 Jan 2022)
Hi,
John Howell who has managed the forum for years is getting on and wishes to retire from the role of managing it.
Over the years, he has managed the forum through good days and bad days and he has always been fair.
He has managed to bring his passion for fish keeping to the forum and keep it going for so long.
I wish to thank John for his hard work in keeping the forum going.
With John wishing to "retire" from the role of managing the forum and the forum receiving very little traffic, I think we must agree that forum has come to a natural conclusion and it's time to put it to rest.
I am proposing that the forum be made read-only from March 2022 onwards and that no new users or content be created. The website is still registered for several more years, so the content will still be accessible but no new topics or replies will be allowed.
If there is interest from the ITFS or other fish keeping clubs, we may redirect traffic to them or to a Facebook group but will not actively manage it.
I'd like to thank everyone over the years who helped with forum, posted a reply, started a new topic, ask a question and helped a newbie in fish keeping. And thank you to the sponsors who helped us along the away. Hopefully it made the hobby stronger.
I'd especially like to thank John Howell and Valerie Rousseau for all of their contributions, without them the forum would have never been has successful.
Thank you
Darragh Sherwin
Another Ph Question
- Viperbot (Jason Hughes)
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Im a little perplexed here. I have recently helped my brother setup a tank. Its a 240ltr freshwater setup. Yesturday he asked what was going on with his ph as, according to his test kit, it was coming out of the tap at 9.0 and overnight it was dropping to 5.0. I told him to test both the tap water and the tank again as I figured that he may have made a mistake with the dropper or something but he got back to me with the same readings. All thats in the tank are two large pieces of bogwood and a substrate of inert pea gravel and an airline. Am I right in saying that as co2 escapes from water the ph rises? Or is it the other way around? I know bogwood can help lower ph a bit but this is a bit much so I doubt thats the culprit.His filter is an internal fluval 4+ which I seeded with media from my big tank (sponge and I added a bit of wool for polishing). Ill be visiting him today to have a look but could do with being armed with an idea or two as im unsure as to what is going on. Cheers,
Jay
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- JohnH (John)
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As said before, I'm a little hopeless with water chemisty but you are right - pH shouldn't be dropping from 9 to 5 overnight, no amount of bogwood would achieve this (unfortunately).
Can you check if the test kit is in date? - This just might explain such a discrepancy. Most pH kits have two different tests, low and high and the low wouldn't measure pH9...likewise the high wouldn't register pH5 either. I'm wondering if one is on the blink.
Do you know the test kit he's using?
Theoretically pH should rise as CO2 disperses, to answer your other question.
I'll stand aside and let others with better understanding of the mysteries of Water Chemistry help you better.
I just thought I'd offer that limited amount of 'knowledge'.
Read Ian's reply to Andrew's pH query from during the week, that offers better advice.
John
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N. Tipp
We're just two lost souls swimming in a fish bowl - year after year.
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It's a long way to Tipperary.
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- Viperbot (Jason Hughes)
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Jay
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when water comes from the tap it can give a false reading so it needs to stand before been tested say 24hours to sure.
co2 lowers pH as does bog wood.
do i would suggest going to your LFS and get them to test it to be sure
mickey
Mickey Wallace & Cath Woods
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- Ma (mm mm)
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I am having a similar issue, 9 out of the tap, a steady 7.2 in my tanks, bog wood only, only thing I'll say is that I do have a mineral substrate that may reduce the waters PH buffering capability along with a fair amount of tannin in the water can easily bring it down when the water is in this state, it can also be the amount of minerals nutrients ect in the water that can affect it's PH buffering ability, no peat in the equation I tanke it.
Just a thought.
Mark
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- Ma (mm mm)
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I advise anyone with PH that high with a 6.8.7.0 in their tank to add fresh water slowly, maybe not add more than 5% an hour, I know it PH comes down in the tank but a large volume of 25% fresh water in an 30 mins may give some gill burn to some fish maybe?
Mark
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and found this
Influence of carbon dioxide on alkalinity
Carbon dioxide can change the pH of water. This is how it works:
Carbon dioxide dissolves slightly in water to form a weak acid called carbonic acid, H2CO3, according to the following reaction:
CO2 + H2O --> H2CO3
After that, carbonic acid reacts slightly and reversibly in water to form a hydronium cation, H3O+, and the bicarbonate ion, HCO3-, according to the following reaction:
H2CO3 + H2O --> HCO3- + H3O+
This chemical behaviour explains why water, which normally has a neutral pH of 7 has an acidic pH of approximately 5.5 when it has been exposed to air.
Read more: www.lenntech.com/carbon-dioxide.htm#ixzz0gjnuZlSc
if we use the part i underlined as a guide it would seem possible for the difference when one considers the bog wood.
i still think you should both check tap water after allowing to stand for 24 hours and get it checked by Your LFS
Mickey
Mickey Wallace & Cath Woods
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- Viperbot (Jason Hughes)
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Jay
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- Viperbot (Jason Hughes)
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Mark
I am having a similar issue, 9 out of the tap, a steady 7.2 in my tanks, bog wood only, only thing I'll say is that I do have a mineral substrate that may reduce the waters PH buffering capability along with a fair amount of tannin in the water can easily bring it down when the water is in this state, it can also be the amount of minerals nutrients ect in the water that can affect it's PH buffering ability, no peat in the equation I tanke it.
Just a thought.
Mark
No, no peat as his filter is an internal with no room for it.
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Mickey Wallace & Cath Woods
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Jay
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Mark
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Jay
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- igmillichip (ian millichip)
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the chemistry of carbon dioxide is not as simply in theory as the link above says; and is even more complex in reality.
The underlined statement seems to assume pure water at pH7.
In addition to the actual pKa's of carbonic acid, the partial pressures and atmospheric pressure also affects the CO2/carbonic acid equilibrium.
But a drop of pH from 9.0 to 5? That is rather large.
There are a number of causes of that...eg test kit not working, or very low buffers in water.
Maybe even sounds like a nitrous or nitric acid induced pH crash in water with little buffering.
But, I would say you need further water checks (eg hardness and pH).
ian
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