Anybody able to give advice

Hi All
I have 2 big issues with Nitrate levels in 2 tanks.
The first is a new set up which has no fish in it and has been sitting for 2 weeks. Its a four foot jewel. I replaced the filter media and washed the gravel myself thoroughly.
I filled it and let it heat slowly and treated it with tetra afe start.
This tank is in my fathers house and when I called down after two weeks it was covered in algae.
The second tank is in my own house and as stated before on this site I had been both lazy and lucky with my lack of water changes. My Nitrate levels rarely went above 50 mg/l and even when they reached this I did changes.
My Nitrites never went above 1 mg/l and I find that the bog wood keeps the ph and hardness in check.

However I started doing more water changes as every thread I read states that you all do at least weekly changes and this is when the levels of nitrates in my tank shot up. I use a syphon to dig through the gravel when doing the changes. I have an aquaclear 200 powerhead hooked up to undergravel filter plates and also the standard box filter that comes in the jewel tank. The sponges are cleaned on this at every water change and the carbon was replaced recently.

I cant figure why the levels have suddenly shot up.
Just out of curiosity I tested my tapwater and the Nitrate levels in my tapwater are above 25mg/l.
Is this normal?

I hate using chemicals in the tank but even after 4 days of 25% water changes there is no difference in my levels of Nitrates. I have treated it with tetra nitrate minus and am continuing daily changes but am worried.

The only fish showing any ill effects are my male cocatuoid and my blue rams. The rest of the fish including Discus and golden rams are fine.

Please help.

i'd get a second opinion, bring your water to your lfs they should test it for you, your test kit could be incorrect (wat one are you using and how old is it, these go out of date). wen changing the water dont clean the filter at the same time maybe a day or two later and only once a month

Hi Pat,
you should bring your tapwater to the LFS to retest as well.

Whatever about what's going on in your tanks (and you may be introducing nitrates from your tapwater), the EU limit for nitrates in potable (Drinking) water is 11.3 mg/l. If 25mg/l came out of your taps, then its possible that an even higher concentration was present in the recent past.

If it does prove the case, you should call your local county council or whoever is responsible for your water supply as its not fit for human consumption. (Different forms of nitrate are used as preservatives and are present as pollutants in some water supplies around the world. Long term consumption of them, especially where they are present in drinking water, are connected to widespread cancers, espcially Stomach cancer).

Jim.

Hi Pat,


Washing the gravel will decude somewhat the Nitrates but will leave more ammonia.

Nitrates in abundance is a side effect of good filtration.


One easy solution is to use a flating plant like Riccia that will feed on the nitrates. You can buy as a temporary fix a product called Nitrate Min form tetra, this binds to the Nitrates and lockes them together rather than a chemical that cahnges the chemistry of your water, I have used this in unplanted tanks but find a breeding net with Riccia in it keeps Nitrates at bay.

There are many options for this problem if you google removing Nitrates from my aquarium, and maybe also on the forum too if you have a search you may find some useful info.


Best of luck


Mark

Mark

Thanks Mark
I am using the tetra Nitrate min. I can only use it once a week and its not had any effect yet so I may try the Ricca.
Will let you know how it goes .
Pat

some of these locking products nitrate ammonia etc... dont show the progress on the tests so they could well be doing the job

When your cleaning the sponges,how exactly are you cleaning them? Are you running them under the tap,if you are its killing any good bacteria you have. I assume you are cleaning it with existing tank water ?

Also as the lads mention,check your test kit and date.It sounds like both the tank and the tap water are out of order,would be unusual and may explain why the results are wrong.What kind of test kit are you using?
Gavin

If you gravel vac it will remove the nittate min as it sinnks and sits on the bottom, that may be why it has not had an effect.

I have some Moss here and some Riccia, it should grow fairly fast in a tank with lots of Nitrates, not a lot as I gave most away bt some to get you started, the Riccia will grow fast.


50mpl is safe for community aquariums, Discus and others are not suited to such high Nitrates, 25mpl should be ok tho.


Looking at the post by Jim, I would agree that the concentration was higher and has dropped off and that is why you are seeing the effect on the fish now.


Mark

Fishowner wrote:

When your cleaning the sponges,how exactly are you cleaning them? Are you running them under the tap,if you are its killing any good bacteria you have. I assume you are cleaning it with existing tank water ?

As above, make sure you use tank water to clean the filter media.

This might be why there used to be a 1mpl Nitrate reading as the bacteria cycle was broken by the chlorine killing off the media, if the media has become more established in your tank lately Nitrates will permanently go up as processing of ammonia and Nitrites is occuring and will increase as the media hosts more processing bacteria.





Mark

I only ever clean the sponges in tank water never under a tap.
I only bought the test strips last week as I ran out.
I have had trouble getting the test strips (tetra 6 in 1)
I tried several shops midweek and couldnt get any. On saturday I visited fins furs and feathers as My father had gotten a pack of 50 JBL strips for what I pay for 25 tetra strips. Unfortunately they were out and I eventually got the tetra strips in Kinsealy.
It might be cheaper to by the individual chemical kits I havent done the maths.
I normally test the water once a week but this week I have been testing every day.
Have decided to leave the next water change till thursday and see is there any change.
Sorry about the length of the reply but trying to cover everything.

Bit worried about the tap water though.
Maybe I can blame that on how mad the 4 year old is.....

cheaper is not the issue, the drops are more accurate, the strips are not the best and it's really enjoyable using the little test labs

The reason I use the strips is they do 6 tests in one including chlorine.
Unless the cost of the bottles is excessive then it wont really come down to price.
After all I spend good money on fish and plants so I need to protect them.
I will have to get the lab coat.........

You'd need to test ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH....for changes (relative to each other)

There have been questions about how the filter material is washed?
They are quite important.....as already said, washing in tap water will tend to kill off the nitrifying bacteria (the ones that convert nitrites to nitrates) on the filter media.

But, that would normally mean a decrease in nitrates and an increase in nitrites if the aerobic nitrifying bacteria are killed.

However, it may have been that you also have had anaerobic denitrifification going on in the more stale parts of an filter. Denitrification will reduce nitrates so if that system existed and is now not working then that would also explain an increase in nitrates over normal.

In some chemical situations, bacteria that normally oxidise nitrites may start to reduce nitrates to nitrites.

pH is important to all of this.

On to the actual test equipment.....this is always something that should be questioned first if something 'mad' has happened.

High nitrates in tapwater....that concerns me even more.

The case for nitrates being linked to stomach cancer is very questionable....but linked to a bad diet or bad stomach function or being an infant may increase the pH to a level that favours the reduction (by bacteria) of nitrates in the stomach to nitrites ....these may form N-nitroso compounds with dietary proteins (very much the same thing that is produced when cooked cured meats at high temperature...and we know that that is mot good).

A bigger more defo problem is Diuresis (which has spleen haemorrhage and fatty deposits amongst the chronic effects) and Methaemoglobinaemia.

The latter is of particular importance (medically significant) for younger people (especially infants).

Hence, if tap water is high in nitrates then there is a bigger problem.....populationwise.

Ian

Ok thats after scaring my a bit.
First thing I need to do is buy some test kits and retest the tapwater.

From the sounds of it I think its time to replace some of the sponges in the filter.
Need to get the test kits.

Hi Pat,
I think the message is - double check the tapwater and deal with that first - both from the human health perspective and secondly, if its the source of the problem, its adding nitrates to your tank water.

@igmillichip - At the risk of going off topic, I studied the connection some years ago and there was overwhelming correlation at a population level for this (other factors too, naturally). However, didn't mean to put it in as scaremongering.

But, to put 25mg/l in perspective - this is the level of pollution at which the EPA no longer considers a groundwater system (rivers or lakes) to be of "good status".

I hope I didn't scare anyone.....but I have a particular interest in medical tocicology and especially with dietary aspects.
There is some questionable scaremongering out there on this and that....but much of the well know and established facts are often sacrier than the 'rumoured scaremongering'.

I could easily go on a rant about diet and health, but I won't.

On the subject of the quality of water supplies, aquarium test kits are not really on a par to the quality and accuracy required to properly test water if we consider legislation/directives.
Hence, I think that theres needs to be great caution when worrying about water-supplies based upon a pretty simple and basic 'quick' test.

ian

@ Jim, I was writing a reply whilst you posted above...so didn't see your reply. Hence, my last reply was not in relation to one above it....so my reference about 'scaremongering' was not directed at any post here.

On a step-off the main walkway here, there are many problems with using population studies without fundamental research.
I can say that the many constant differences of opinions in gastroentrological society conferences between us (fundamental gastroentrological cancer researchers) and those who reviewed clinical reports on populatiins were very heated. My specific topic of research was on the effects of sugar and salt on colon cancer rather than on nitrates, but both are still of questionable correlation.

Ian

Hi Ian - I guess we've probably both been in, and witnmess to, enough "heated" debates on these and related topics.

back to the fish . . . . !