clean up crew for a barebum tank

Hi ya tet. ..are ya running full triton????

I like the idea of triton but I don't like having to wait for results.

Hello!! Yes, im running full triton. Im not the person for waiting either. But, you dont have to wait for the official results to do something. I do manual testing while waiting for the triton water analysis, like Ca, Mg and KH. Most importantly, keeping the KH at 8. I also check the Nitrates occasionally, just to make sure the Macro algae are doing their job, its around 2 to 5...i dont want it to be zero tbh (despite tritons' recommendation).

Hows your tank btw?

tetdiscus
done a triton test a while back after I had the wipeout...... everything looked just fine to be honest, only thing elevated to be honest was the po4 levels!!!
at this stage Ive tried just about everything there is to try including running rowaphos thru the reactor i have here!!!! No Joy tbh!!!! it comes down to 0.16ish then raises back up to 0.36 where it is at the moment! But using Rowa and all the agents etc is only treating a symptom and not the cause!!!! So Im going to remove the cause at the root to reduce the waste of money on products that only touch the symptom!!!!! if that makes sense!
The surprising thing thru all the issues Ive had with this tank since starting it up (Cyano, algea, phosphates, wipeout etc) my KH has stayed stable the whole time at 9......

Argh do they really suggest nitrate a of zero???are the readings not somewhat deceptive considering the algae needs nitrates to surive..

Both lps and sps need some also ..in my tank nitrates are always between 2 and 5 and phosphates between 0.08 and 0.16.....

Don't do an awful lot really to keep them there which is why I'm so surprised at Neil's levels...but if it is the rock...better to pull it out..

Chris
Yea a 0 is suggested for Nitrate but as you say this will actually be a false reading as there is nitrate required for the microalgae's.

well thats my take on it all anyway!!!!!
equally when my algae problem was at its worst there a few weeks ago, my phosphate readings were 0.03 because the algea was masking the true reading!!!!

0.36 isn't massive levels of phosphate. ..and ya new rock to swap it out with????

Other options maybe something like calupia ...as in put some algea in the tank and let it burn through everything

Picking up some rock in SH when I get back from my few days away

This things been running since april and no sign of the phosphates burning out of the shitty rock so time to just decorate the garden with it and put in some nice pieces of new stuff

carlowchris wrote:

0.36 isn't massive levels of phosphate. ..and ya new rock to swap it out with????

Other options maybe something like calupia ...as in put some algea in the tank and let it burn through everything

Caulerpa is very good. But i wouldnt put it in display tank. They multiply very quickly. And can attach to almost anything. You wont be able to take it all out from the DT when time comes.

hammie wrote:

Picking up some rock in SH when I get back from my few days away

This things been running since april and no sign of the phosphates burning out of the shitty rock so time to just decorate the garden with it and put in some nice pieces of new stuff

Are you getting live rock? Thats better then i suppose...I was wondering if you were running the pump to the phosphate reactor too fast? I use ball valve to slow it down. Also, are you not planning on using phosphate reactor/remover the entire time? I mean, i will be using the phosphate remover as long as im in the salty hobby.

Yea I'll get live rock instead of using dry reef rock!
Absolutely I'll use po4 remover the whole time, but not the amount I'm using at the moment which has basically done nothing only cost a bucket load of money while readings have stayed consistently high
There's 250g in the filter at the min
That's due a change tomorrow morning before I leave! It was only put in the tank few days ago but it'll be saturated now and therefor becomes less than useless!
I was putting 500g a week thru the system for a while there!!!! Basically 40 euro a week I think it was costing!
Now imagine I wasn't having these issues....... imagine the corals and stock I could have had in the tank for what's been spent so far!!!!!

All the best of luck then. Hopefully it will work out for you.

Also, may i suggest a separate phosphate reactor with a not so strong pump with a valve to slow down the flow of water to reactor. Using rowaphos (they are small granules compared to other phosphate remover) will require long contact time with water. If using too much flow will exhaust the po4 remover quickly thus making it rather useless, in my opinion. Also, if you want to use Triton AL99 in the future, keep an eye on your Aluminum level. Rowaphos is iron oxide based.

Happy holidays.

Hey Hammie

Levels of 0.36 is not really that bad, at least not bad enough to consider adding live rock which to me could introduce new problems such as critters or even an ammonia spike if you use too many.

Dry Rock will leach phosphates for months, I think it has taken over 10 months for mine to stop leaching even though I had cured them for over 3 months in a separate tank.My rocks didnt start leaching phosphates straight away (not a lot) but until 2-3 months after, but by then I was already using NoPox and PO4x4 at the same time so phosphates never went over 0.08. I also had caulerpa growing in the tank.

However, there was a period that, for over 6 months where I stopped looking after my tank, that my Phosphates increased and algae started to grow on the back of my tank (this happened around 7 months after introducing the dry rock). For a while I struggled with it as, as soon as I removed the algae, more film/hair algae will start to grow on the rocks, and it would cover every rock within a day or two, then it was back to cleaning again.

So I am not sure what happened next or what caused it but I let the algae grow on the back of the aquarium and stopped dosing NoPox (I actually run out of it and didnt realize until a few weeks later - I use a dosing pump to dose NoPox).

Anyway the algae one day disappeared (just have some on the back wall which I never touch) and that's pretty much it, no more cyano nor film/hair algae anywhere to be found. The only thing I have is Po4x4 in my filter but I am not sure how much that's helping as I havent replace it for over 3 months now.

I believe this was mostly because the rocks stopped leaching (my dry rock) but also because the algae on the back wall is looking after the phosphates as well.

As I am getting a new aquarium I dont care how my current tank looks, as long as everything is happy in it I am happy as well, so I dont care if I have algae growing on the glass or not. But I understand that having this type of algae growing in your DP is not nice, so maybe macro algae would be better? Caulerpa is good but it has a few cons, first, it can become asexual and wipe out the entire tank (never seen this happen but I have read about it), second, it is toxic to some corals such as the elegance, and third it will need frequent trimming so it wont get out of control, and even then, it will stick to your rocks easily.

So in conclusion, before putting live rock which will likely come with a surprise hitchhiker (for instance, fireworms, aiptasia, etc) or even more algae, try to control the phosphates either by using Macro Algae or a phosphate reactor (with a separate pump) like tetdiscus suggested. Use Po4x4, that's stuff is great for reducing phosphates and then, just wait it out! It will only be like this for a few weeks/months (hopefully).

NoPox could be a good option as well, maybe use them all together?

Of course this is just my advice!

Should be over within a few months.

Curing Dry rock is a pain, and most people tend to just cure it for a few days/weeks but the entire process will take a long long time, unless you use some sort of acid to burn/kill all organic matter from the rock but that's proven difficult to do in Ireland. But even with all this handicaps it is great as you have a tank with no nasty or unwelcome creatures!

I totally agree with Bohrio. One main reason i used dry reef rock is the absence of hitch hikers (actually there some in it..like fan worms, which i dont mind). And also the ability to glue them together better than a wet rock.

So you think just wait it out another while?
To be honest I was never expecting the issues to be just as bad as it was there for a while! But I'm definitely happier that the setup has improved greatly in the last 2 months!
I did remove a couple of the larger heavy rock tho! (Only 3 pieces but it's made a huge difference)
My reactor was running off a little pump that sat in the back of the tank hidden by some of the Rock work! But like a spanner I broke the pump last weekend and just haven't replaced it yet! I'll be getting a new pump for it in a day or two when I get to somewhere to get 1!
I made a fee amazon purchases at the beginning of December that were delivered to my parents house in the north! 1× atm colony, 1x atm agent green, 1x rowaphos 500g and 1x carbon
Just arrived at my parents to find 2x 500g rowaphos instead of the 1 ordered and 2x carbon packs instead of the 1 ordered
So that's a bit of a bonus!
Like most people I started out with dry reef rock to avoid the hitchhikers and to be fair I've managed that well!
So to add live rock now could be detrimental I suppose!

Hey

I would wait if I were you. I mean, nothing is really at risk at the moment but the looks of the tank, so if you dont mind that then keep doing what you are doing and dont become very obsessed with it. It will go away at some stage (I mean, it has to!)

Have you tried using PO4x4?? I bought it at seahorse some time ago and it is very good and cheap enough. Try using that instead of any other phosphate remover. It is concentrated stuff and it works best with a fluidised reactor, just make sure you have proper sponge density otherwise the granules might slip through the sponge!

You set up the tank back in may so rock should stop leaching soon, but that will depend on the amount of organic matter left in the rocks. No point in removing anything anymore, but you will have another spike as soon as you add more reef rock, just be ready this time, in fact, maybe try curing the rock you removed now so it will have less impact when/if you decide to add it to the tank.

I will be getting rid of mine soon (most of it) as the new tank will have new reef ceramic rock so there is no need for me to use mine. It is pest free (afailk) all I have is mini bristle stars and a few fan worms. I am planning of adding new critters on the new aquarium but I will be buying them instead.

Believe it or not and even though I always dip my corals an intruder made it through the quarantine process, a little white/red crab. So far he hasnt been bad and he has been there for over 1 year.

Also, as an anecdote and as we are talking about critters in live rock, my first marine inhabitant came with the live rock I bought from seahorse, while I was setting the tank up I noticed something black and tiny, no more than a 2-3 mm wide, had fallen off and buried himself in the sand, at first I though I was imagining things, but a few months later while looking at the tank I noticed a big black crab living in the tank, I panicked at first thinking it was gonna eat all my fish, but decided to leave it there. That was probably 3-4 years ago and he is still in my main tank happy and not bothering anybody! he is around 15 cm big now, more or less, and he is always there minding his own business, will be putting it in the new tank as well, he has earned the right to be there!

So not all critters are bad, however, I have to say I also got other critters that were not such a good addition to the tank, aiptasia, fireworms, among others... lol they were the main reason why I went for dry rock on my current tank and why I will do the same on my new one, I will never buy live rock again tbh, no matter the source unless my plan is to dry it and cure it myself.

So the fresh rowa I put in the filter before heading off for a few days has had a dramatic effect..... (well dramatic compared to previous attempts) phosphate levels dropped to 0.16

Maybe I am seeing an end to this

Quick update
tested today again
Po4 0.08
Salinity high at 1.027 (easy fix)
ammonia 0
nitrate 0
nitrite (below)0.1
kh 6
ph 8.2
Kh dropped but can dose and bring that back up handy enough..
Hopefully another few days I'll have pretty much no po4 readings at all!
Going to start restocking the tank fairly soon! New year off to a good start with this tank now

Nice one.

Happy New year

Excellent!

Decided I wasn't happy bare bottom so added substrate yesterday

Po4 now 0.02
But still a small bit of hair algae growing even tho its been at that level for about a month!
Added a aquamedic skimmer on Thursday too so that may help!
Becoming happier and happier with the setup now tbh but want a couple of nice plate rocks for coral to sit on

So here's a question!
Anyone ever run a auto top up system on a sump less tank? I'm looking for info on how I'd do it!

Hey Hammie

I am running one at the moment, I bought the ATO from Fish-street ( link ) and it works like a charm.

There is a new model similar to the tunze one available for a very decent price as well.

The one I am running on my tank (until I get the big one ready) was easy to set up

I just took a picture of the setup. Basically It comes with a pump and a double sensor. Water goes below certain level on the main tank and the pump starts pouring water in the DP.

I use a 20 l container and it last for around 2 weeks in winter (for the 110 l, a bit over 1 week when I had the 260, that's with around 15 liters of RO).

In summer it only last for 3-4 days if it is really hot (my apartment gets up to 34 degrees in summer!)

Here is the container

and here are the sensors, it hangs on the back of the aquarium, fits most aquarium. The new tunze version in fish street has magnets instead, I have never used them but they might be a better option if your tank rim is too thick or if it is too low.

Now that you have added sand to the tank, in the process, you covered some of the live rock, so the bacteria on that live rock that is now covered by the sand is going to die now and probably cause a small ammonia spike, just keep an eye on the ammonia levels. This will take a few days so it wont be sudden! Just wanted to let you know.

Looks like a good bit of kit......I used to have a tunze osomolator...ir senior never worked properly if the sump light was on...even though the it was at the other end of the sump and partly blocked by the skimmer..Would the main lights above the tank play a little havoc too???

To ensure there's no ammonia spikes etc, I'm giving the tank a small daily dose of liquid bacteria... this will also help the sand bed become live also!

I wasn't sure the ir sensors would work with the lighting.......
That's just 1 of my concerns
But thanks for letting me know it's possible! Perhaps I could have the atom on a timer to only be active while the lighting is off......that would solve any ir sensor miss readings and topping up when not needed causing a flood!

Its very simple, just looks complicated! lol

I have heard that some sensors are affected by strong aquarium light. The one i use seems fine. It is a bit to the right of where the light is though so maybe try to place it to a low light area if you decide to go for it.

I'm not after 1 straight away.... so I've plenty of time to look into them!
Defo going to help tho! Cheers man!

Holly crap man!!! I've missed all this carnage

Can't believe you been threw all this, but the proof is their that you are a dedicated and will not be beaten
It was an absolute nightmare by the looks of things but if you can go from their to here and still have the tank wet you Deffo will be one of the long time survivor's that will have the experience to keep it going for many of years

Looking forward to catching up properly mate, if you think I can help on any way at all just shout and ur always welcome to call in for a cuppa

Ya know something? It was a learning experience, nothing more nothing less! Good to see you back on here mate! You have been sorely missed for your advice and banter!
You never know I may take you up on that cuppa some time!

I'm always looking at new ways to do things and looking at different media options etc to see if there's something better out there than what I currently use!

As for a long time survivor? That's down to the wallet monster and time haha! I've put too much money into it to even consider shutting it Down! I've built it up with upgrade in mind however! When the time comes to upgrade I'll probably get a 4 5 or 6ft super tank! I'll keep the primes and add an additional hydra 26 or 52 as well! The uv is big enough that I can upgrade without the worry of replacements! I've got 1 reactor that I can run (slight leak but will be fine in the sump of a new tank but I'll find a way to fix the leak I hope)
I'm going looking at auto top up systems I can put onto my tank at the min!
Looks like I'll spend a bit more time away from home this year, so I'll need to be happy that I'm not coming home to half empty tank from evaporation (salinity nightmares)
Overall a lot happier now that things are going well!

Thanks mate its good to be back

It's a pity you hade all the hassle really is because it shouldn't have been like that for you it's expensive enough even when things go smoothly never mind when things go bad, but ur right no surrender otherwise it's money down the drain
Your deffo a marine junkie now haha never mind the 4 5 or 6 the 7 footer is the way to go haha, I hoping to get one next year

If your upgrading, does that mean your tank will be available? Don't go offering it to other people just yet...... hint hint

I got sh1t3 rock from someone and that's what caused most of the problems! The worst of it is gone and won't ever be used again by anyone now! The best of it is fixed and the phosphates gone out of it!!!
Never did get an answer as to what killed the fish but my 2 clowns 2 urchins and blenny are happy out now along with the original red velvet star fish that realistically should have been first to pop it's clogs cause it's a lot more sensitive than the fish would have been!
Must throw up the results of the triton test I done at the time to show you! The water wasn't bad apart from the phosphates! It's stumped the majority of us!!!!